Rapture= false teaching

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Jun 29, 2010
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Of course it can be supported; that is why there are millions of people that believe it.
Millions people believe it because their pastor/sunday school teacher/ the left behind series told them to, not because it can be supported in scripture.
ONE coming is supported by 1 Thes. 4:17 and surrounding verses
1st thess 4:13-18 disprove the pretrib rapture
and 2 Thes 2 and surrounding verses;
2nd Thess 2 prove the post trib rapture
and the SECOND coming is supported by Rev. 19
Revelation 19 proves the post trib rapture
, and the Olivet discourse.
The olivet discourse proves the post trib rapture

So don't say "unsupported." It is only that you do not understand one of them - or just don't believe it.

I learned to count to two by the time I was two - don't know about you.

Coop
The pretrib rapture any at the very least unsupported, and if you could count to two you would be a post trib
#1 the 2nd coming if after the Tribulation
#2 The rapture is at the 2nd coming

Thats1+2=3 the rapture is post tribulational.
 
P

pre-trib

Guest
Millions people believe it because their pastor/sunday school teacher/ the left behind series told them to, not because it can be supported in scripture.1st thess 4:13-18 disprove the pretrib rapture2nd Thess 2 prove the post trib raptureRevelation 19 proves the post trib raptureThe olivet discourse proves the post trib rapture

The pretrib rapture any at the very least unsupported, and if you could count to two you would be a post trib
#1 the 2nd coming if after the Tribulation
#2 The rapture is at the 2nd coming

Thats1+2=3 the rapture is post tribulational.
You make claims that this i this and that is that,..but you do not attempt to back it up other than specultion.
There is nothing,..absolutely nothing that you can present in scripture that would back up any of your claims.Since you know who I am,..then you know I can back up my statement.
Go and find your best mentor,..and I'll show this forum that He does not know what he thinks he knows,..Am I sure of myself,..you betcha!..The Lord has taught me well.And I give Him the Praise and the glory.

Let's see,..I'll call your bluff,..You said that 1st thess 4:13-18 disprove the pretrib rapture.
OH Really!:D
I'll show this forum,...that it instead proves a pre-trib,..but I an going to use a couple of verse's out of 1 Thessalonians 5 to prove my point.......and guess what,..there is nothing you can say or present to refute it.

We agree that 1 Thessalonians 4;16-17 is the rapture,..now to prove it is pre-trib.
1 Thessalonians 4;16-17 and chapter 5 are in chronological order.
1 Thessalonians 5;3 States:..."For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Now let's examine that verse........It tells a whole story....let's break it down.
For when they shall say, Peace and safety.....HhMmmmmmm:)
At the end of the tribulation,..no one can say that the world will say peace and safety,..instead,..the worlds armies are preparing for armageddon to fight Jesus at His return.
men will have the mark and will have boils.Revelation 16 water turns to blood,..men scorched,..then darkness and pain,..Hhhmmmmm....obviously this is not a time of peace and safety.....So, when would a time of peace and safety occur?...Hhhhmmmmm........Well the rapture will occur when a time of peace and safety comes to pass.Actually,there are three pictures that were painted that would reveal that general time era, that back each other up!
Oh!,..I know what you are going to say,...No One knows the Day or the Hour.
WEeeelll that is true,...BUT!!!,..The Lord has made it clear that the Bride would know and recognize the general time era!
1 Thessalonians 5;4 But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.
As I pointed out earlier,..1 Thessalonians chapter 4 and 5 are in chronological order.
In chapter 4;16-17 we see the Rapture of the Bride.
Chapter 5;3 reveals that it occurrs during a time of peace and safety.And that as soon as that time of peace and safety come to pass,..then sudden destruction will come upon....."THEM"........and ......"THEY" shall not escape!
In other words,..as soon as the rapture comes to pass Sudden destuction comes upon them.........It did not say the Bride or "US",..because we were already gone!
The Word of God says,,..Pray that you may be accounted worthy to "ESCAPE" all these things and to stand before the Son of Man!
Now, for the second picture that backs up this first picture.

Matthew 24;36
36“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,f but only the Father.</SPAN> 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.</SPAN> 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;</SPAN> 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.</SPAN> 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.</SPAN> 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.</SPAN>
At the end of the tribulation,..there is no way that man will be marrying and giving in marriage,.....the Lord went one step further to make sure that you understood the the picture that He was presenting by saying that here would be two women grinding at the mill,..one tyaken the otrher left behind,..The Lord wanted you to know that the rapture would occur during what seemed like a normal life setting,..and that would be when the rapture occurred and then the Flood came and the world did not escape.
Now for the third picture that backs up the first two.

In Ezekial 38,..we know that russia and the islamic nations will not attack Israel ......Not until Israel believes that she is dwelling in Peace and safety, with her walls downOr unwalled.
In the near future,...Isaiah 17;1/Psalms 83 will come to pass,..and Damascus will cease from being a city,..and Israels immediate arab neighbors will be defeated.Israel will come out victorious, and will gain much of the land promised to Abrahams descendents, but not all of it yet.
I believe that Jordan will too be involved and Israel will conficate a lot of Jordan,..keep in mind that at the "Abomination of Desolation, that Israel may flee to Petra, which is about 25 miles south east of Ammon Jordan.
Well Ezekiel 38;19,..Uses the words...GODS WRATH...And 20 says that every mountain and wall shall fall to the ground.Most likely the Dome of the Rock will crumble from this global earth quake.Paving the way for the third temple to be built,..and then again considering that all of israels immediate arab neighbors were defeated and later on God destroys Russia and the other islamis nations involved,..I would say that there are no islamic armies to object to Israel building the third temple.
This battle occurrs just slightly prior to daniels 70th week and the Rapture occurs during this false peace, that occurrs after Isaiah 17;1/Psalms 83.
Ezekiel 38 is the event that begins the Day of the Lord and the Day of the Lord will continue throughout the whole 7 year tribulation.
So Brothers and sisters,..we live in exciting times,..Be ready,.....The Lord is coming soon.
 
L

lecoop

Guest
Quote: Originally Posted by lecoop

Of course it can be supported; that is why there are millions of people that believe it.

Millions people believe it because their pastor/sunday school teacher/ the left behind series told them to, not because it can be supported in scripture.
This is true, but SOME of those millions study the bible. YOu can be sure, Post tribbers CERTAINLY do not have a corner on the market for studying the bible.
Quote:
ONE coming is supported by 1 Thes. 4:17 and surrounding verses
1st thess 4:13-18 disprove the pretrib rapture
How strange: for that is one passage that PROVES a pretrib rapture. Perhaps you could explain your thinking?
Quote:
and 2 Thes 2 and surrounding verses;
2nd Thess 2 prove the post trib rapture
Again, you are mistaken, not understanding "Apostasia," or the main theme of that passage. This passage PROVEs pretrib. So again, please show us your thinking on this passage. Show us how YOU read it.
Quote:
and the SECOND coming is supported by Rev. 19
Revelation 19 proves the post trib rapture
Ho strange: I have NEVER read anything about a gathering in Rev. 19. It certainly shows His coming on the white horse, but does NOT show a gathering (except for those gathered to fight with Him!).
Quote:
, and the Olivet discourse.
The olivet discourse proves the post trib rapture
Sorry, but it does not. Again you will have to back up your statement. If you think the gathering there is the rapture, then you must explain why the rapture is gathering people from one end of heaven to the other!! We live in EARTH, and the dead in Christ are UNDER the earth; therefore the true rapture of the church will be a gathering from the EARTH. (Just as 1 Thes. 4 shows us.)

Quote:
So don't say "unsupported." It is only that you do not understand one of them - or just don't believe it.

I learned to count to two by the time I was two - don't know about you.

Coop
The pretrib rapture any at the very least unsupported, and if you could count to two you would be a post trib
#1 the 2nd coming if after the Tribulation
#2 The rapture is at the 2nd coming

Thats1+2=3 the rapture is post tribulational.
Ha ha!! Well, one coming is certainly after the 70th week. But the FIRST coming is only to the air, and it is PRE-trib.

By the way, since we are speaking of the TIMING, in relation to the "trib" perhaps you could tell us where you see the 70th week laid out in Revelation, start, midpoint, and ending? It seems logical that if one KNOWs whether or not the rapture is pre or post, one MUST then know WHERE the trib is in Revelation.

Coop
 
Jun 29, 2010
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Ha ha!! Well, one coming is certainly after the 70th week. But the FIRST coming is only to the air, and it is PRE-trib.
The first coming was His birth the 2nd coming is after the Tribulation. There will be no other coming of Christ between the two.
 
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pre-trib

Guest
The first coming was His birth the 2nd coming is after the Tribulation. There will be no other coming of Christ between the two.
Explain away the following:
Jude 1;14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints.

revelation 17;14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Darby Bible Translation
For many are called ones, but few chosen ones Matthew 22:14

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
 
L

lecoop

Guest
The first coming was His birth the 2nd coming is after the Tribulation. There will be no other coming of Christ between the two.
he already came once. And that was 2000 years ago. That is a given. But He is coming AT LEAST twice more; once to the air, to take us home (see John 14 and 1 Thes. 4:17) and then AGAIN on the white horse.

And there are ALSO at least TWICE that there will be signs in the sun and moon; once as a sign for the day of the Lord (Blood Red moon; Joel 2 and Rev. 6) and then again as a SIGN for Jesus return on the white horse, (Matt. 24 and Joel 3.)

(Peter also denied the Lord SIX times, not three - and there was also THREE times that Jesus healed a blind man near Jericho, once on the way INTO the city, and again on the way out, a single blind man and then

Coop blind Bartimaeus - but that is for a different thread. The point is, many people MISS these things - just as they do the TWO more comings of Jesus.)
 
Jun 29, 2010
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he already came once. And that was 2000 years ago. That is a given. But He is coming AT LEAST twice more; once to the air, to take us home (see John 14 and 1 Thes. 4:17) and then AGAIN on the white horse.
This is not biblical, it is a satanic lie.
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
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he already came once. And that was 2000 years ago. That is a given. But He is coming AT LEAST twice more; once to the air, to take us home (see John 14 and 1 Thes. 4:17) and then AGAIN on the white horse.

And there are ALSO at least TWICE that there will be signs in the sun and moon; once as a sign for the day of the Lord (Blood Red moon; Joel 2 and Rev. 6) and then again as a SIGN for Jesus return on the white horse, (Matt. 24 and Joel 3.)

(Peter also denied the Lord SIX times, not three - and there was also THREE times that Jesus healed a blind man near Jericho, once on the way INTO the city, and again on the way out, a single blind man and then

Coop blind Bartimaeus - but that is for a different thread. The point is, many people MISS these things - just as they do the TWO more comings of Jesus.)
What pastor is teaching these lies? There are wolves in sheeps clothing and Jesus said there would be those who say "Lord, Lord" and Jesus willl say I don't know you. Flee from evil. Two advents just is not in the Bible. There can only be one event of Christ's return. No secret abductions.

Study the Word for yourself and don't believe those who like to "tickle your ears" with feel good messages.
 
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pre-trib

Guest
What pastor is teaching these lies? There are wolves in sheeps clothing and Jesus said there would be those who say "Lord, Lord" and Jesus willl say I don't know you. Flee from evil. Two advents just is not in the Bible. There can only be one event of Christ's return. No secret abductions.

Study the Word for yourself and don't believe those who like to "tickle your ears" with feel good messages.
I have posted a few placed a few posts on this thread,..take your pick and see if you can refute my statements,..because it seems that others do not want to dare touch them.

I too am from Texas

Your reply here is basicly scoffing according to bible definition.
You really have not said anything here.

Give something scripturally sound and see if it can stand up to the Word of God?

God Bless you
 
P

pre-trib

Guest
This is not biblical, it is a satanic lie.
Allow me to ask you a question.
Do you have biblical knowledge of the cultural agricultural harvest of the Jews back in the Time before the Cross?
Jesus is a Jew, and He spoke things to the Jews that He knew very well that they would understand based on their culture.
If you try to perceive endtime prophecy through the eyes of a gentile,..you are not gonig to comprehend the ful picture of what the Lord had intended,....You must perceive through the eyes of a Jew to see thye whole picture intended.
If you receive not this free advice I have given you,..then I assume that it is pride that stands in your way....................................God Bless
 
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lecoop

Guest
This is not biblical, it is a satanic lie.
Why would you say that? Is 1 thes. 4:17 a LIE? I am going to tell Paul you said that!!!
Why is it that if something disagrees with YOUR point of view it must be a lie?
it seems the Pharisees disagreed with almost everything Jesus said; but who was wrong there?

Coop
 
L

lecoop

Guest
What pastor is teaching these lies? There are wolves in sheeps clothing and Jesus said there would be those who say "Lord, Lord" and Jesus willl say I don't know you. Flee from evil. Two advents just is not in the Bible. There can only be one event of Christ's return. No secret abductions.

Study the Word for yourself and don't believe those who like to "tickle your ears" with feel good messages.

So you are calling me a liar? That is not wise, for it may well be YOU that is mistaken. If you wish to challenge anything I have written, then get your bible and post some opposing scriptures. But please don't call me a liar - for you certainly don't know me. For your information, there are FAR more pastors teaching a pretrib doctrine than any other - simply because it is truth.

Coop
 
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pre-trib

Guest
Hey Coop,..The school teacher ask the little girl what she was drawing,..and the litle girl said,,....I am drawing a picture of jonah and the whale.
The teacher said,..I do not believe in the bible,..there is no way that a man can survive three days in the belly of a whale!
The little girl said,...But it's True!!!
The teacher said No way!
So the little girl said,..Well! when I get to heaven,..I am going to ask Jonah!
The teacher mockingly said,...Well what if jonah did not go to heaven?...what if Jonah went to Hell!

The little girl thought about it for a second, then replied,...Well in that case,..you can ask him!
 
L

lecoop

Guest
Hey Coop,..The school teacher ask the little girl what she was drawing,..and the litle girl said,,....I am drawing a picture of jonah and the whale.
The teacher said,..I do not believe in the bible,..there is no way that a man can survive three days in the belly of a whale!
The little girl said,...But it's True!!!
The teacher said No way!
So the little girl said,..Well! when I get to heaven,..I am going to ask Jonah!
The teacher mockingly said,...Well what if jonah did not go to heaven?...what if Jonah went to Hell!

The little girl thought about it for a second, then replied,...Well in that case,..you can ask him!

He he!! VERY wise little girl!!!

But if we study Jonah, I am quite sure he died in the great fish, and his spirit went to hell. But God brought him back.

Coop
 
Jun 29, 2010
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Why would you say that? Is 1 thes. 4:17 a LIE? I am going to tell Paul you said that!!!
Why is it that if something disagrees with YOUR point of view it must be a lie?
it seems the Pharisees disagreed with almost everything Jesus said; but who was wrong there?

Coop
Of course 1st Thess 4:17 isnt a lie. However 1st Thess 4:15 tells us that this event takes place at the coming of Christ. The lie is that the event in 1st Thess 4:17 takes place 7 years before the coming of Christ.
 
Jun 29, 2010
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So you are calling me a liar?
You may not be a liar. you might truly believe the lie you promote. That makes you deceived not a liar. You would be a liar if you promoted your lie knowing it was false. I personally give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you are simply deceived and not a liar.
 
P

pre-trib

Guest
Of course 1st Thess 4:17 isnt a lie. However 1st Thess 4:15 tells us that this event takes place at the coming of Christ. The lie is that the event in 1st Thess 4:17 takes place 7 years before the coming of Christ.
Oh Really!...Reveal to this forum that it actually says a rapture occurs in revelation:D
Where do you see the dead and alive being raptured in the book of revelation.

This I gotta see:)
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
38
0
Does anyone here change the Word?

Does anyone here believe the Word is a lie?

I can tell you that I know that I know the entire Word, OT and NT, is for ALL people at ALL times and it is knowledge and much much more of the things past and the things future. The Bible is an amazing awesome powerful book inspired not by men but God. Daily the Word is relevant for today, yesterday and tomorrows. Ignore it or change it or miss enterpret (by being selective and coming to conclusions not based on the entire Word of God - this makes Satan's day I am sure - you may even be rewarded for these conclusions that appear to be inconsistencies within the Bible). No, I know you will be rewarded!! Goodness and Faith vs Evil and Doubt. Which do you choose? Which gives you peace?

You want scriptures to back up pre-trib vs post-trib? Forget it! The prophets and Jesus Christ and the disciples have already given us the answers. Because some may be selective and believe there interpretaion is the only right interpretation based on only a few out of context (ie the whole Bible) scriptures, so be it.
The Rich Man and Lazarus

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

2 Timothy 3

Godlessness in the Last Days

1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. 6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
Paul's Charge to Timothy

10You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, 11persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2 Peter 1

1Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
Making One's Calling and Election Sure

3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. 5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Prophecy of Scripture

12So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, 14because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things. 16We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."[a] 18We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.
19And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
 
P

pre-trib

Guest
Does anyone here change the Word?

Does anyone here believe the Word is a lie?

I can tell you that I know that I know the entire Word, OT and NT, is for ALL people at ALL times and it is knowledge and much much more of the things past and the things future. The Bible is an amazing awesome powerful book inspired not by men but God. Daily the Word is relevant for today, yesterday and tomorrows. Ignore it or change it or miss enterpret (by being selective and coming to conclusions not based on the entire Word of God - this makes Satan's day I am sure - you may even be rewarded for these conclusions that appear to be inconsistencies within the Bible). No, I know you will be rewarded!! Goodness and Faith vs Evil and Doubt. Which do you choose? Which gives you peace?

You want scriptures to back up pre-trib vs post-trib? Forget it! The prophets and Jesus Christ and the disciples have already given us the answers. Because some may be selective and believe there interpretaion is the only right interpretation based on only a few out of context (ie the whole Bible) scriptures, so be it.
The Rich Man and Lazarus

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

2 Timothy 3

Godlessness in the Last Days

1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. 6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
Paul's Charge to Timothy

10You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, 11persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2 Peter 1

1Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
Making One's Calling and Election Sure

3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. 5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Prophecy of Scripture

12So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, 14because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things. 16We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."[a] 18We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.
19And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
You Quote;
You want scriptures to back up pre-trib vs post-trib? Forget it

My Reply:
If you will not debate,..then you have nothing to say,..and therefore, pre-trib is correct.

God Bless you Tx:)