A
New Covenant and Old Covenant
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7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
probably too long for many to read, but here is what I am talking about
I was actually giving some thought to this the other day
if you think about it, the 'new' commandment given by Jesus ais not really new (and He knew that) He simply fulfilled the commandments with a few words and if you apply what Jesus said and what Paul said(see below) you ARE keeping the commandments
The 10 Commandments List, Short Form
here are the words of Jesus as recorded in I John
If you love one another, then God abides in you (by His Spirit and the Holy Spirit does not teach against the Bible)
If you love God will you worship or create new gods?
If you love God will you use His name in a false way? (I think this goes far past swearing or cursing...it also reflects on using His name to make money and fleece His sheep)
If you love God you will honor Him in every day and putting aside one day a week to do so is not without merit, however in light of the NT teaching, I would think every day is an opportunity to honor God. Holy means 'set apart' . think about how a Christian is supposed to be holy...means set apart...ie not partaking of the world as if you never heard the gospel
God is about family...His, yours and the neighbors. Honor as in respect...it does not mean obey. you can still say no as an adult and respect people.
and Paul states this in Romans:
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.. 13:8
if you love your neighbor, are you going to murder him/her?
Are you going to commit adultery with one of them?
Are you going to steal from them?
Are you going to make up lies about them?
Are you going to be jealous of them and want what they have?
there is so much in the NT about obeying the law and yet some insist it is only the commandment Jesus gave as if it absolves them of God
does Jesus override God the Father? Jesus said He came to do the will of His Father
some people need to really think through what they are saying and reflect on all the Bible teaches
and still, no one says that fulfilling the law (through love and yes, obedience because love, as God, Jesus and Paul speak of it, is obedience. what do you think a command is? a suggestion? stop saying you just obey Jesus when really you don't understand what Jesus was saying
I was actually giving some thought to this the other day
if you think about it, the 'new' commandment given by Jesus ais not really new (and He knew that) He simply fulfilled the commandments with a few words and if you apply what Jesus said and what Paul said(see below) you ARE keeping the commandments
The 10 Commandments List, Short Form
- You shall have no other gods before Me.
- You shall not make idols.
- You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
- Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
- Honor your father and your mother.
- You shall not murder.
- You shall not commit adultery.
- You shall not steal.
- You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
- You shall not covet.
here are the words of Jesus as recorded in I John
- 1 John 3:11: For this is the message which ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another
- 1 John 3:23: And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, even as he gave us commandment.
- 1 John 4:7: let us love one another: for love is of God;
- 1 John 4:12: No man hath beheld God at any time: if we love one another, God abideth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
If you love one another, then God abides in you (by His Spirit and the Holy Spirit does not teach against the Bible)
If you love God will you worship or create new gods?
If you love God will you use His name in a false way? (I think this goes far past swearing or cursing...it also reflects on using His name to make money and fleece His sheep)
If you love God you will honor Him in every day and putting aside one day a week to do so is not without merit, however in light of the NT teaching, I would think every day is an opportunity to honor God. Holy means 'set apart' . think about how a Christian is supposed to be holy...means set apart...ie not partaking of the world as if you never heard the gospel
God is about family...His, yours and the neighbors. Honor as in respect...it does not mean obey. you can still say no as an adult and respect people.
and Paul states this in Romans:
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.. 13:8
if you love your neighbor, are you going to murder him/her?
Are you going to commit adultery with one of them?
Are you going to steal from them?
Are you going to make up lies about them?
Are you going to be jealous of them and want what they have?
there is so much in the NT about obeying the law and yet some insist it is only the commandment Jesus gave as if it absolves them of God
does Jesus override God the Father? Jesus said He came to do the will of His Father
some people need to really think through what they are saying and reflect on all the Bible teaches
and still, no one says that fulfilling the law (through love and yes, obedience because love, as God, Jesus and Paul speak of it, is obedience. what do you think a command is? a suggestion? stop saying you just obey Jesus when really you don't understand what Jesus was saying
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
A
Ariel82
Guest
A
Ariel82
Guest
I made a thread ages back that showed how Jesus changed and illuminated all ten commandments in the sermon of the mount...but it was largely ignored or rejected also.
It is strange. Honestly, I'm starting to get the feeling that many Christians today aren't comfortable with the idea of GOD speaking his laws directly to them, just like the Israelites begged Moses to speak GOD's law rather than hear GOD speak it directly.
What part did you use for the 4th commandment. I'm leaning towards Matthew 6:24-34
Jesus complied with the law as stated in Numbers 5:11-23.
Jesus stooped and write the curses required in Num 5:23 on the ground.
The Passover and the Days of Unleavened bread are seperate from mt. Sinia
Exodus 12:14 “And this day shall be unto you for [a memorial];
and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations;
ye shall keep it [a feast] by an ordinance [for ever].
24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have
I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day
in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
-Christ fulfilled Passover by shedding his blood.
Therefore let us [keep the feast], 1 Corinthians 5:8
a memorial—not a shadow, a memorial—a feast—to be kept forever
A memorial of deliverance from Egypt, which pictures to us deliverance from sin!
Exodus 13:9 (KJV)
And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for
a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord's law may be in thy mouth:
for with a strong hand hath the Lord brought thee out of Egypt.
-
Jeremiah 34:13
“Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel:[ ‘I made a covenant with your fathers] in
[the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt], out of the house of bondage,
saying,.....
Jeremiah 11:7
For I earnestly exhorted your fathers in the day I brought them up out of the land of Egypt,
until this day, rising early and exhorting, saying, “Obey My voice.”.,...
Jeremiah 7:22
For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them
out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.......
23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God,
and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you,
that it may be well unto you
-In the wilderness before mount Sinia
Exodus 16:4
4Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you;
and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day,
that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
“How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?(27-30)
-This incident happened prior to the giving of the Ten Commandments.
-the ten commandments covenant exodus 20-24
19:8 And all the people answered together, and said,
All that the Lord hath spoken we will do.
1 And God spake all these words, saying,.....
8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God:
11For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,
and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
-You read of the actual making of the Old Covenant,
and sealing it with blood, in (Exodus 24:4-8).
And notice it concludes with the words,
“the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you ….”
to the Ten Commandment law, God added no more (Deuteronomy 5:22).
-It was then already made..., completed..., done deal, in force.
22 These words the Lord spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of
the fire,of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: [and he added no more]
And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.
-Any other law, or covenant,coming later, is no part of it,
but a separate law or covenant. Paul tells us
“Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed,
no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto” (Galatians 3:15)
-Once a covenant is signed, sealed, or ratified,
confirmed—in force,it cannot be added to or taken away from.
The Ten Commandments law was complete, God added no more or taken away..
-
But there is a Sabbath covenant and Holy days covenant,
that are separate from the ten commandments.
-the Sabbath covenant - a memorial
Thy name, O Lord, endureth for ever; and thy memorial,
O Lord, throughout all generations.
a gift: “See, for that the [Eternal]hath given you the Sabbath …”
the tribe of Judah,the responsibility of preserving the knowledge of the correct day
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
a separate covenant apart from the ten commandments
and is a forever binding covenant between his chosen people.
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep:
for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations;
that (ye may know) that I am the Lord that doth (sanctify you).
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, (to observe)
(the Sabbath) throughout their generations, for (a perpetual covenant).
17“It is (a sign) between me and the children of Israel (for ever):
for in six days the [Eternal] made heaven and earth, and on
the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed” similar to Exodus 20:11.
Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout
your generations that ye may know that I am the [Eternal] that doth sanctify you”
“Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them,
that they might know that I am the [Eternal] that sanctify them.
But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my
statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them;
and my Sabbaths they greatly polluted:then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them
in the wilderness, to consume them”(Ezekiel 20:12-13).
"which if a man do , he shall even live in them;
"which if [a man do] , he [God] shall even [live in] them[a person];
God promises when an individual keeps His Sabbath day holy: He shall live in them.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding
have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever.
-
“If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day;
and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the [Eternal], honorable;
and shalt honor him, not doing thine own ways,nor finding thine own pleasure,
nor speaking thine own words”(Isaiah 58:13.......)
“Then shalt thou delight thyself in the [Eternal]; and I will cause thee to ride upon
the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father:
for the mouth of the [Eternal] hath spoken it”
the tribe of Judah,the responsibility of preserving the knowledge of the correct day
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Exodus 12:14 “And this day shall be unto you for [a memorial];
and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations;
ye shall keep it [a feast] by an ordinance [for ever].
24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have
I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day
in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
-Christ fulfilled Passover by shedding his blood.
Therefore let us [keep the feast], 1 Corinthians 5:8
a memorial—not a shadow, a memorial—a feast—to be kept forever
A memorial of deliverance from Egypt, which pictures to us deliverance from sin!
Exodus 13:9 (KJV)
And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for
a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord's law may be in thy mouth:
for with a strong hand hath the Lord brought thee out of Egypt.
-
Jeremiah 34:13
“Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel:[ ‘I made a covenant with your fathers] in
[the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt], out of the house of bondage,
saying,.....
Jeremiah 11:7
For I earnestly exhorted your fathers in the day I brought them up out of the land of Egypt,
until this day, rising early and exhorting, saying, “Obey My voice.”.,...
Jeremiah 7:22
For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them
out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices.......
23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God,
and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you,
that it may be well unto you
-In the wilderness before mount Sinia
Exodus 16:4
4Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you;
and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day,
that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
“How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?(27-30)
-This incident happened prior to the giving of the Ten Commandments.
-the ten commandments covenant exodus 20-24
19:8 And all the people answered together, and said,
All that the Lord hath spoken we will do.
1 And God spake all these words, saying,.....
8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God:
11For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,
and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
-You read of the actual making of the Old Covenant,
and sealing it with blood, in (Exodus 24:4-8).
And notice it concludes with the words,
“the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you ….”
to the Ten Commandment law, God added no more (Deuteronomy 5:22).
-It was then already made..., completed..., done deal, in force.
22 These words the Lord spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of
the fire,of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: [and he added no more]
And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.
-Any other law, or covenant,coming later, is no part of it,
but a separate law or covenant. Paul tells us
“Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed,
no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto” (Galatians 3:15)
-Once a covenant is signed, sealed, or ratified,
confirmed—in force,it cannot be added to or taken away from.
The Ten Commandments law was complete, God added no more or taken away..
-
But there is a Sabbath covenant and Holy days covenant,
that are separate from the ten commandments.
-the Sabbath covenant - a memorial
Thy name, O Lord, endureth for ever; and thy memorial,
O Lord, throughout all generations.
a gift: “See, for that the [Eternal]hath given you the Sabbath …”
the tribe of Judah,the responsibility of preserving the knowledge of the correct day
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
a separate covenant apart from the ten commandments
and is a forever binding covenant between his chosen people.
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep:
for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations;
that (ye may know) that I am the Lord that doth (sanctify you).
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, (to observe)
(the Sabbath) throughout their generations, for (a perpetual covenant).
17“It is (a sign) between me and the children of Israel (for ever):
for in six days the [Eternal] made heaven and earth, and on
the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed” similar to Exodus 20:11.
Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout
your generations that ye may know that I am the [Eternal] that doth sanctify you”
“Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them,
that they might know that I am the [Eternal] that sanctify them.
But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my
statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them;
and my Sabbaths they greatly polluted:then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them
in the wilderness, to consume them”(Ezekiel 20:12-13).
"which if a man do , he shall even live in them;
"which if [a man do] , he [God] shall even [live in] them[a person];
God promises when an individual keeps His Sabbath day holy: He shall live in them.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding
have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever.
-
“If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day;
and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the [Eternal], honorable;
and shalt honor him, not doing thine own ways,nor finding thine own pleasure,
nor speaking thine own words”(Isaiah 58:13.......)
“Then shalt thou delight thyself in the [Eternal]; and I will cause thee to ride upon
the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father:
for the mouth of the [Eternal] hath spoken it”
the tribe of Judah,the responsibility of preserving the knowledge of the correct day
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
God's laws are laws that teach us how to be more like Jesus Christ, which are all positive laws. But the laws for sinners are the laws that are against the sinners for their many sins. A negative law that is a curse unto them. God's laws tell you what to do, and the law for the sinners tell them what not to do.
A
Ariel82
Guest
Here is a summary outline
The 10 Commandments List, Short Form
You shall have no other gods before Me. (Matthew 6v24)
You shall not make idols.(mat 6v1-18)
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.(mat 5v33-37)
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Matt 6 v 25-34)
Honor your father and your mother. (Matt 7 v 7-11)
You shall not murder. (Matt 5 v. 21-26)
You shall not commit adultery. (Matt 5 v. 27-32)
You shall not steal. ( Matt 5 v 38-42)
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. (Matt 5 v 43-48)
You shall not covet. (Matt 6 v 19-24)
The 10 Commandments List, Short Form
You shall have no other gods before Me. (Matthew 6v24)
You shall not make idols.(mat 6v1-18)
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.(mat 5v33-37)
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Matt 6 v 25-34)
Honor your father and your mother. (Matt 7 v 7-11)
You shall not murder. (Matt 5 v. 21-26)
You shall not commit adultery. (Matt 5 v. 27-32)
You shall not steal. ( Matt 5 v 38-42)
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. (Matt 5 v 43-48)
You shall not covet. (Matt 6 v 19-24)
A
Ariel82
Guest
Conjecture...could be true or could be false.., Maybe he was writhing the accusers sins?
Can't prove it either way.
A
Ariel82
Guest
Many people don't recognize God's voice from their own. thoughts.
Many don't pray or quiet enough to listen or hear
When a person become a new creature in Christ by the renewing of the mind,and is filled with he Holy Ghost, then atomatically, that person is no longer under the law for sinners, because that person have become righteous. Now there is no law to break, only now do they establish the laws of God in their lives. Starting with Love thy GOD with all your heart, soul and mind .Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you. You only tell a person not to do something because they have already done it. This is what the laws of Moses was ,because they were already doing these things.
A
Ariel82
Guest
There are "negative" (do not do this: commit adultery) and "postive" (do this: example worship God) commandments/ laws in both the old and new covenant
A
Ariel82
Guest
2 covenants 2 contracts
If you buy a house in the mountains and another house at the beach....will they be under the same contract?
What if you inherited the house in the mountains (built on solid Rock) and never rebuilt the house on beach that was destroyed by a hurricane....do you still owe money for the beach house or can you give it back to the bank?
You can spend your time and energy rebuilding a beach house or you can learn to live on the mountain and do God's work.
If you buy a house in the mountains and another house at the beach....will they be under the same contract?
What if you inherited the house in the mountains (built on solid Rock) and never rebuilt the house on beach that was destroyed by a hurricane....do you still owe money for the beach house or can you give it back to the bank?
You can spend your time and energy rebuilding a beach house or you can learn to live on the mountain and do God's work.
Jesus "magnified" God's law (Isaiah 42:21, KJV). He taught that Christians are
not to murder, and must not even harbor an attitude of hate (Matthew 5:21–24)
It is o.k. to [do good on the Sabbath], but never did away with the Sabbath day,
or the law, but made it honourable.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 4:15, "Because the law works wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 4:15, "Because the law works wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
A
Ariel82
Guest
Jesus showed the Spirit and the purpose of all of the laws, the feasts and all prophecies in His life and ministry if people have ears to hear and eyes to see.
However folks cling to the Letter because it's easier than listening to the Spirit.
Sabbath isn't one day a week. Jesus says to pray unceasingly every single day.
Jesus declared the Year of Jubilee when He walked this Earth. He set the captives free but people prefer the old wine and seek to fill new wineskins with it.
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Lev 19:
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]9, "‘And when you reap the harvest of your land, do not completely reap the corners of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest."
the letter would be well i dont have afield so I dont have to share, the Spirit woiuld be if I have abundance I should share...
Also the feast days... only the first set of Feasts have been fulfilled, we are still looking toward the second set...
is it only the Spirit if we ignore this or can we celebrate them for their true meaning? (Messiah's works)
[/FONT]