Does God Sever Fellowship With Us When We Sin?

[Ralph-]

I came to this thread to talk about prayer not knowing JGIG's request for prayer was here.


I wanted to ask budman if he thought prayer had anything to teach us about the connection between the condition of one's relationship with God within salvation and how we've been acting?

The Bible talks about our prayers being effective and fruitful, and heard, based on how we've been acting towards others. This shows us that God will indeed sever the manifestation of his presence in our lives based on how we act.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who does what in that passage?

God does it ALL.

Look it up.



-JGIG

enjoy sis, get some picks, and share, praying for your safety

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So do not want to read 11 pages, did we come to a conclusion yet?

 

[joaniemarie]

You added that last part to the Scripture. Living by faith is standing on what we know is true according to what Christ has done and who we are in Him. Grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness. We rely on both - faith is how we stand (think shield of faith); one is how we walk.

18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen. (from 2 Pet. 3)


​

11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

15 These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you. (from Tit. 2)​

​

The New Covenant is between God the Father and God the Son. Read the letter to the Hebrews. Read the letter to the Ephesians. Read the letter to the Galatians. God's requirements were fulfilled by God in the flesh, Christ. We enter into the New Covenant by God's grace, through faith. Once we enter into the New Covenant, it is God Who keeps us there. Think about it: the requirements and fulfillment of the New Covenant is outside of us. There is nothing that we do to enter in but to accept and receive what God had done in Christ. It is the gift of God (see Romans chapters 3-5). The New Covenant is superior to the Old in that we can't break it, because we are not one of the parties who ratified it! We enter in by faith. That's it. Entrance and residing in it is the Gift of God. God the Father and God the Son maintain the New Covenant in their perfection. New Covenant is based on better promises and is superior to the Old in every way!







It appears you deny the New Birth, the New Life, the New Heart that is put within us when we believe. You should not look at those who believe as the world does:

16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (from 2 Cor. 5)​

It seems like someone who is so fixated on faith would have some faith that God is faithful to finish what He starts!

6 And I am sure [have faith that] of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (from Philippians 1)​

-JGIG

As ever your posts uplift me JGIG. I especially related to this part of your post;


The New Covenant is between God the Father and God the Son. Read the letter to the Hebrews. Read the letter to the Ephesians. Read the letter to the Galatians. God's requirements were fulfilled by God in the flesh, Christ. We enter into the New Covenant by God's grace, through faith. Once we enter into the New Covenant, it is God Who keeps us there. Think about it: the requirements and fulfillment of the New Covenant is outside of us. There is nothing that we do to enter in but to accept and receive what God had done in Christ. It is the gift of God (see Romans chapters 3-5). The New Covenant is superior to the Old in that we can't break it, because we are not one of the parties who ratified it! We enter in by faith. That's it. Entrance and residing in it is the Gift of God. God the Father and God the Son maintain the New Covenant in their perfection. New Covenant is based on better promises and is superior to the Old in every way!



These are most amazing truths many of us Christians don't know!! I did not come to see them until much later in my Christian walk. The truth in Christ is AMAZING!! A better covenant because the Ones involved are PERFECT. It out-lasts anything any mere human could do.

It takes God Himself to solidify this covenant! And because us mere humans could not EVER keep our promises.... HE took care of it for us HIMSELF.

As you said., once we enter into this covenant IT IS GOD WHO KEEPS US THERE. We HAVE A SURE FOUNDATION WHO IS CHRIST JESUS. That is why nothing can remove us out of His hand. That is why we are instructed to look at no man (even ourselves) according to the flesh. The flesh is weak and incapable.

"entrance and residing" are FOREVER gifts only God gives through Christ. He saves us and keeps us. We are saved by His life., we are kept by His life. AND HE LIVES AFTER THE POWER OF AN ENDLESS LIFE. Hebrews 7:16

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And this becomes more plainly evident when another Priest arises Who bears the likeness of Melchizedek,
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]Who has been constituted a Priest, not on the basis of a bodily legal requirement [an externally imposed command concerning His physical ancestry], but on the basis of the power of an endless and indestructible Life.
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For it is witnessed of Him, You are a Priest forever after the order (with the rank) of Melchizedek.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]So a previous physical regulation and command is cancelled because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness—
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]For the Law never made anything perfect—but instead a better hope is introduced through which we [now] come close to God.

 

[BillG]

Some translations put 'sinful nature' in the place of 'flesh' in vs. 25, which is the source of MUCH confusion as to whether we as believers have a 'righteous nature' and a 'sinful nature'. The NIV has changed the 'sinful nature' back to 'flesh', which is what the Greek there, sarx, means.

Yeh I know the Greek is sarx which means flesh.

So sin resides in the flesh.

So if we sin we walk in the flesh?

That being the case, who or what is sinning?

 

[joaniemarie]

A definition of the term sanctify is in order.

To sanctify is to set apart.

When we come into Christ, we are set apart unto God.

Sanctification is learning to walk in the truth that we are set apart.

And that's where grace comes in. Grace teaches us to walk as who we are!

It takes time to renew the mind from being an orphan to being the adopted of God!

-JGIG

Exactly. Unmerited love and favor to get saved.... unmerited love and favor as we walk it out. No condemnation to those who are IN Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1-2

8 Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.


The reason we can walk without any condemnation from God?? JESUS CHRIST HAS FREED US FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. We are now born again .... we have entered into this new life in Christ .... from death unto life .... That is why God will never ever break fellowship with us. We always go before Him through HIS SON...Got saved because of Jesus.... are kept because of Jesus.... we stand confidently because of Jesus. Amazing.


Have a wonderful trip JGIG with your sweet son and family. You guys are in my prayers. NO MORE ORPHANS!

"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeh I know the Greek is sarx which means flesh.

So sin resides in the flesh.

So if we sin we walk in the flesh?

That being the case, who or what is sinning?

the question is, what does it mean “in the flesh” answer this, and i think we come along way to understanding

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Here is what HELPS Word-studies has to say about sarx:

4561 (sarks) is generally negative, referring to making decisions (actions) according to self – i.e. done apart from faith (independent from God's inworking). Thus what is "of the flesh (carnal)" is by definition displeasing to the Lord – even things that seem "respectable!" In short, flesh generally relates to unaided human effort, i.e. decisions (actions) that originate from self or are empowered by self. This is carnal ("of the flesh") and proceeds out of the untouched (unchanged) part of us – i.e. what is not transformed by God.

HELPS Word-studies
Copyright © 1987, 2011 by Helps Ministries, Inc.​

The way I understand it is that we do the sinning when we allow the lusts of our flesh to rule over us.

The only way I know of overcome the lusts of the flesh is by following the instruction in Rom 13:14 – But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is what HELPS Word-studies has to say about sarx:

4561 (sarks) is generally negative, referring to making decisions (actions) according to self – i.e. done apart from faith (independent from God's inworking). Thus what is "of the flesh (carnal)" is by definition displeasing to the Lord – even things that seem "respectable!" In short, flesh generally relates to unaided human effort, i.e. decisions (actions) that originate from self or are empowered by self. This is carnal ("of the flesh") and proceeds out of the untouched (unchanged) part of us – i.e. what is not transformed by God.

HELPS Word-studies
Copyright © 1987, 2011 by Helps Ministries, Inc.​

The way I understand it is that we do the sinning when we allow the lusts of our flesh to rule over us.

The only way I know of overcome the lusts of the flesh is by following the instruction in Rom 13:14 – But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

I like this as one defenition, i think there is another aspect though which is missing from this defenition. In fact i think it is th core of what leads to this thinking.

 

[dcontroversal]

..

Guys, I may pop in here, or maybe not, from now through the next week.

Our son's Make A Wish trip is this week - we leave at 6am tomorrow. He wanted to see a volcano, so off we go to the Big Island of Hawaii, lol! Kilauea is certainly going to give him a memorable visit!

I'm overseeing the packing of our family of nine, so need to sign off and finish my chores .​

We'd appreciate your prayers for safe travels and for Daniel's wish to be everything he's hoped. He has gone through a lot with a lot of grace and moxie, and we're pretty proud of him! For those who don't know, Daniel is a metastatic brain and spine cancer survivor. We spent a year at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital with him, and all is well \o/.

Off to celebrate LIFE \o/ !!!!

Grace and peace to you all,
-JGIG​

May the Lord bless your little man and this trip....I have lost two children to a type of muscular dystrophy and my 1st born son who the Lord has blessed had his Make A Wish trip in 2007....I hope your trip goes well

 

[Deade]

the question is, what does it mean “in the flesh” answer this, and i think we come along way to understanding

Didn’t Jesus say His people will be known by their fruits?

Matt. 7:16-18 “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”

Are those displaying the wrong fruits going to inherit the kingdom?

1 Cor. 6:9-11 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”

Gal. 5:19-21 “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Didn’t Jesus say His people will be known by their fruits?

Matt. 7:16-18 “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”

Are those displaying the wrong fruits going to inherit the kingdom?

1 Cor. 6:9-11 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”

Gal. 5:19-21 “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

what is fruit bearng? What does it look like?

 

[Ralph-]

Do any believe we lose fellowship with God when we sin?

The Bible is very clear about this. God shuts himself off from fellowship with the unrepentant believer. Look what Malachi had to say about it:


13“This is another thing you do: you cover the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping and with groaning, because He no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. 14“Yet you say, ‘For what reason?’ Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. "-Malachi 2:13-14


Yeah, I know, all of you are thinking, "That's old testament! That's old testament! It's different in the New Testament!"

Is it? Let's see:


"live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered."-1 Peter 3:7


There are other passages in the NT that show us that we have to be living at peace with God and those around us for God to hear our prayers. When you don't obey God in loving others your prayers get shut off like a phone getting disconnected. You may still have phone service but the line of communication has been broken somewhere along the line.

 

[Ralph-]

The manifest goodness of God in your salvation is dependent on your obedience, specifically your obedience to treat people as God expects you to treat them (according to whatever your level of growth in Christ makes you accountable and responsible for).

Just as the children of God, the Israelites, could not enter into, nor stay in, the manifest blessing of the promised land because of disobedience so we also will be shut out from the manifest blessings of the promises if we choose to disobey God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The manifest goodness of God in your salvation is dependent on your obedience, specifically your obedience to treat people as God expects you to treat them (according to whatever your level of growth in Christ makes you accountable and responsible for).

Just as the children of God, the Israelites, could not enter into, nor stay in, the manifest blessing of the promised land because of disobedience so we also will be shut out from the manifest blessings of the promises if we choose to disobey God.

Are you so foolish having begin in the spirit, now trying to perfect in the flesh.

good luck with thinking God looks at your obedience and saying he will forgive even 1 sin based on your acts of obedience.

 

[Ralph-]

Here is what HELPS Word-studies has to say about sarx:

4561 (sarks) is generally negative, referring to making decisions (actions) according to self – i.e. done apart from faith (independent from God's inworking). Thus what is "of the flesh (carnal)" is by definition displeasing to the Lord – even things that seem "respectable!" In short, flesh generally relates to unaided human effort, i.e. decisions (actions) that originate from self or are empowered by self. This is carnal ("of the flesh") and proceeds out of the untouched (unchanged) part of us – i.e. what is not transformed by God.

HELPS Word-studies
Copyright © 1987, 2011 by Helps Ministries, Inc.​

The way I understand it is that we do the sinning when we allow the lusts of our flesh to rule over us.

The only way I know of overcome the lusts of the flesh is by following the instruction in Rom 13:14 – But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Paul says if you are 'in the flesh' you are not born again. He qualifies being 'in the flesh' as meaning 'without the Spirit'.


"you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you"-Romans 8:9


Not to be confused with the born again Christian who is being 'fleshly':


"for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?"-1 Corinthians 3:3


Christians, by virtue of possessing the Holy Spirit in salvation, can never be 'in the flesh', but they can be 'fleshly', still being immature infants in Christ.

This is why I have stopped using the phrase 'in the flesh' to refer to born again believers who are acting in the power and guidance of the flesh and not in the power and guidance of the Spirit. 'In the flesh' does not mean that. Being 'in the flesh' means you are not born again.

 

[Ralph-]

good luck with thinking God looks at your obedience and saying he will forgive even 1 sin based on your acts of obedience.

Who's thinking that? We're not even talking about that here.


The argument is, you lose the manifest blessings of your salvation when you don't obey him. You get a 'time out' from the manifestation of his love when you act outside of his will in disobedience. To enjoy and live in God's hand of blessing you have to obey him. You don't lose your salvation, you lose the joy and life of his presence and all his blessings.

Do you know what 'manifest blessing' means?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who's thinking that? We're not even talking about that here.

yeah we are, you just cant see it.

The argument is, you lose the manifest blessings of your salvation when you don't obey him. You get a 'time out' from the manifestation of his love when you act outside of his will in disobedience. To enjoy and live in God's hand of blessing you have to obey him. You don't lose your salvation, you lose the joy and life of his presence and all his blessings.

Do you know what 'manifest blessing' means?

so you do believe in eternal security?

i know this, you serve people you will be blessed, you serve self you will not. Thats all you need to know

 

[dcontroversal]

Are you so foolish having begin in the spirit, now trying to perfect in the flesh.

good luck with thinking God looks at your obedience and saying he will forgive even 1 sin based on your acts of obedience.

Ole Ralph has proven nothing at the end of the day....if such was the case....no need for the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith....just another working for dogma pushed by a religionist.......he gonna set us all straight......hahahahaha....not likely!

 

[dcontroversal]

yeah we are, you just cant see it.


so you do believe in eternal security?

i know this, you serve people you will be blessed, you serve self you will not. Thats all you need to know

Of course he does not believe that....he has stated clearly by his dogma that his Jesus cannot keep you by his power and or finish the work of faith he began in you.....his salvation is temporal and based upon self and not Christ!