Bill Johnson's Presuppositional Based Hermeneutic Is A Psychosis

[crossnote]

In his book "Dreaming with God" Bill Johnson instructs that for 2,000 years Christianity has had it all wrong. Hermeneutical rules have stopped the church from a dominionist agenda that it should have.

Roman Catholicism has had a dominionist agenda since the beginning, besisdes all cults like Bethel spouse things like 'Christianity has had it all wrong' IOW, 'I am here to tell you the 'new' truth'.

 

[graceNpeace]

Bill Johnson and his ilk are by no means suffering from psychosis nor are they flakes. They are simply applying the Pentecostal mindset to it logical end. When tongues, prophetic messages and personal claims of being "lead by the spirit" are never challenged, chaos rules. When people are allowed to take titles such as Apostle or Prophet, pandemonium reigns.

My stance on water baptism is based upon sola scriptura. I do not use claims of esoteric knowledge in any form. You may disagree with my view on water baptism but it is a stance based on reason and not personal intuition.

I do not believe it is the brush that I am using that is concerning you but the realization that you are of the same hue.

I do not share Bill Johnson's philosophy, as it has been explained, since I had never heard the name before reading this thread, so I am not of his "hue".
All you are doing is trying to damn by association anyone who disagrees with you....

As for you claim of sola scriptura it does not help to justify error...
There are flat earthists on this forum who swear blind by the same claim as you, not to mention the Sabbatarians, Hebrews Roots, and Adventists who also make the same claim.

Sola scriptura is merely a starting place, not an an end justification!

You may have interpreted my criticism of your post as support for Bill Johnson, whoever he is, but you would be absolutely wrong there...
But, of course, you appear to be completely blind to that possibility!

 

[Lewiz]

This is nothing more then Pentecostalism taken to its natural conclusion, nothing more. Reason be damned.

Really?

You're quite the hater, I see.

Johnson is & has always been a false teacher/prophet. He is a charismatic, not a Pentecostal.

You have also condemned millions of Pentecostal christians, now the 2nd biggest movement in the church.

I sincerely hope you did this in ignorance, because you crossed the line to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, condemning those who are known to be led by Him.

Sincerely,
a true Pentecostal.

PS, I forgive you.

 

[DJ2]

Really?

You're quite the hater, I see.

Johnson is & has always been a false teacher/prophet. He is a charismatic, not a Pentecostal.

You have also condemned millions of Pentecostal christians, now the 2nd biggest movement in the church.

I sincerely hope you did this in ignorance, because you crossed the line to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, condemning those who are known to be led by Him.

Sincerely,
a true Pentecostal.

PS, I forgive you.

You're quite the hater, I see.

All Christians should hate falsehood, this is usually a given.

Johnson is & has always been a false teacher/prophet. He is a charismatic, not a Pentecostal.

Two sides of the same coin. This side step is fooling no one. If I had used the term "charismatic" your response would have been the same.

You have also condemned millions of Pentecostal christians, the biggest movement in the modern church.

Claiming numbers as a defense is useless. No movement is justified in falsely labeling the mundane as physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit, regardless of its size. There are no "Pentecostal christians", just christians.

I sincerely hope you did this in ignorance, because you crossed the line to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, condemning those who are known to be led by Him.

These false claims are the lines that is crossed by members of this movement. Defending false claims of movements the Holy Spirit is the same as making the false claims. From your words I will assume you have crossed it many times. If true, you have much to answer for.

Sincerely,
just a Christian.

PS, Don't worry about me forgiving you. I am the least of your troubles.

 

[lightbearer]

Bill Johnson and his ilk are by no means suffering from psychosis nor are they flakes. They are simply applying the Pentecostal mindset to it logical end. When tongues, prophetic messages and personal claims of being "lead by the spirit" are never challenged, chaos rules. When people are allowed to take titles such as Apostle or Prophet, pandemonium reigns.

When Jesus said call no man teacher, I think that applies to more than just teachers. Labels imply status. Status instigates pride and idol worship.
In regards to Spiritual Gifts. If no one in the presence of a Spiritual Gift manifestation is being edified; being brought closer to GOD then it is not of GOD and chaos has already began by the manifestation of that spirit; the father of lies.

 

[lightbearer]

1) Because he rejects sound doctrine
2) I've seen videos of his carnal church

All false teachers claim to be led by the spirit. If they reject sound doctrine they are being led by a spirit, but it's not the holy spirit.

What sound Doctrine?

What videos? Can you post one?

All believers are to be led by the Holy Spirit. It is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. It is HIM we both move and have our being.

 

[Lancelot]

"whatever my heart is set upon when I come to the Bible, will determine much of what I see in the Bible" p153. Bill Johnson doesn't come to the Bible to see what God has to show him but to see what he wants to see.

You're taking him out of context. Here's what he actually said.

[FONT=montserrat, sans-serif]"[/FONT]... whatever my heart is set upon when I come to the Bible, will determine much of what I see in the Bible. That can be good or bad, depending on whether or not I have “watched over my heart with all diligence” (Prov. 4:23). Those with evil in their hearts can find the confirmation they are looking for through the misreading of Scripture. The problem is not the method or approach to the Bible; it is whether or not we are willing to stay humble, honest, and hungry before the Lord. Our desperation for truth makes us available for things that others seem to continually miss. Keeping a pure heart makes the journey to God’s Word a journey where nothing is impossible.[FONT=montserrat, sans-serif]"[/FONT]

[FONT=montserrat, sans-serif]What Bill Johnson is saying is that we have to guard our hearts and keep them pure before God if we don't want to misread His Word. As for the roadrunner, there was a lot more to that story. The roadrunner had been showing up on a regular basis when they had prayer meetings, which was very strange. They saw some prophetic significance in this odd occurrence and kind of adopted it as their mascot. When it flew into a window and died one day, Bill Johnson didn't understand why this symbol of the prophetic would die. God told him that the prophetic is not for the church, it's for the world. They need to allow the prophetic out to give it life.

[/FONT]We have a pre-service prayer meeting on Friday nights. Many meet in the church dining room to pray for the meeting. One night I got there a bit early to pray alone. Soon after my arrival, a roadrunner with a lizard in its mouth, came up to the wall of windows facing the west. He started to dance and jump at the window as though he were trying to get inside. I live in Redding, California, and have spent quite a bit of time outdoors. I had never seen a roadrunner in my life and never even heard of one in northern California. I got within 3 feet of him and thought, “This is too strange to not be prophetic.” Minutes later he left. The time came for others to come to pray, and the room began to fill up. Then the roadrunner returned. One of my staff members said, “Oh, the roadrunner’s back.” I asked him what he meant. He said, “Yeah. He was here last week.” I responded, “You’re kidding!” He obviously wasn’t. For the next several months the roadrunner came to most every prayer meeting, usually with a lizard in its mouth. Some of our youth leaders began to meet in the dining room to pray before their main meeting on Wednesday nights. The roadrunner started to come to that prayer meeting as well, usually with a lizard in its mouth. I used to have a Signs and Wonders class on Sunday morning. One morning I talked about the signs that make you wonder, and used the roadrunner as an illustration. Almost on cue he came up to the window as before. The people pointed and said, “You mean him!” I was shocked. He came almost “on cue.” News began to spread about this strange recurring event. Many tried to help by doing research to find the meaning. I was told that in the natural the roadrunner is related to the eagle. They’re one of the few animals that will kill and eat a rattlesnake, which we do have in our area. (I was happy about that.) I already knew that eagles represent the prophetic and snakes usually speak of the devil. Knowing that the enemy would be trampled down through the increase of the prophetic brought great joy. During this time we starting building our 24-hour prayer chapel called The Alabaster House. The roadrunner started to shift his focus from our prayer meetings to that building. He would actually perch himself on a rock which many of our folks had taken to calling the Eagle Rock, because of its unusual resemblance to the head of an eagle. It was as though the roadrunner, who loved prayer meetings, was overseeing the prayer house building project. One day he got inside the church facility, right above the original prayer room. One of our custodians, Jason (an extremely prophetic student in our school of ministry), found the bird in a large second story meeting room. Jason turned on some worship music and sat in the middle of the room on the floor and worshiped the Lord. The roadrunner came over right in front of him and seemed to join him. He would occasionally leave Jason and go to the window as though he wanted outside, but then he came back and stood right in front of Jason as he worshiped. Jason started to feel bad for taking so much time for worship while he was supposed to be cleaning that he turned the music off and went downstairs to clean other rooms. The roadrunner went with him. Suddenly someone opened the door in the long hallway and startled the bird. He flew to the end of the hall, hit our plate glass window, and died instantly. This bird had become like a beloved mascot to us, reminding us of the importance of prayer. He loved prayer meetings and had become a prophetic symbol of God’s promised increase for us as a church family. He came during a time when many members had already left or were leaving, and the finances were extremely tight. The lizard in his mouth spoke to us of God bringing all that was needed for this move of God. As eagles represent the prophets, it was obvious that the prophetic was actually getting stronger and stronger within our church body. Jason found me to tell me this horrible news. I asked him to show me where he had put the bird so we could go and raise it from the dead. With a sense of purpose and confidence we walked around back where the roadrunner was laying. It made perfect sense to me that God would want the roadrunner alive. Why should He want our living prophetic message dead? Strangely, I actually felt the anointing lift when I got around 5 to 6 feet away from the bird. It was puzzling to me. God’s presence was upon me in a strong way until I got close. It was like He was saying my resolve was good, but my application and timing was not. The roadrunner was not raised from the dead. We were quite sad. Then the Lord spoke, “What I am bringing into the house has to have a way of being released from the house, or it will die in the house.” That word applied to the money we desperately needed, the manifest gifts of the Spirit we were crying out for, the specific anointings we were growing in, and the people who were being saved. The word was costly and clear; we only get to keep what we give away. [FONT=montserrat, sans-serif]

If you don't agree with his theology or his interpretation of this strange story, that's your prerogative. But don't take him out of context in order to brand him a heretic or make similar accusations. That's not of God.[/FONT]

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What sound Doctrine?

What videos? Can you post one?

All believers are to be led by the Holy Spirit. It is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. It is HIM we both move and have our being.

If you're really interested, Why don't you do a little research yourself? It won't be hard to find. If you have problems, then I'll help.

 

[lightbearer]

If you're really interested, Why don't you do a little research yourself? It won't be hard to find. If you have problems, then I'll help.

I listened to this video.
https://youtu.be/SEKGhdbbe1Y

I did not notice anything off in the congregation nor in him. What do you got?

 

[preacher4truth]

"Oh, another heresy hunter thread!" "You just don't like him so you're slamming him." "He just happens to have a differing opinion than you on the Bible and what it says so who says you're right and he's wrong?" "Put aside all malice and slander... 1 Peter 2:1" "John MacArthur makes millions per year."

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I listened to this video.
https://youtu.be/SEKGhdbbe1Y

I did not notice anything off in the congregation nor in him. What do you got?

Watch a 37 minute video? eh no thanks.

 

[wanderer6059]

In his book "Dreaming with God" Bill Johnson instructs that for 2,000 years Christianity has had it all wrong. Hermeneutical rules have stopped the church from a dominionist agenda that it should have. We need to not have these rules and instead approach the Bible as he does: "whatever my heart is set upon when I come to the Bible, will determine much of what I see in the Bible" p153. Bill Johnson doesn't come to the Bible to see what God has to show him but to see what he wants to see. He repeatedly says throughout the book "it is not Father, Son, Holy Bible but Holy Spirit". He claims the Holy Spirit gives him these desires which he then uses as his authority to begin his approach to the Bible. As an example, he tells the story of a roadrunner that got into his church and died. The roadrunner is kin to the eagle. The eagle represents the prophetic in the Bible. Therefore, God is speaking that the prophetic movement will die if it doesn't move out of Bill Johnson's church. Isn't that a psychosis to not see reality but see what you want to see?

us Pentecostals tend to be like a bag of granola, lots of fruits, nuts, and flakes lol

for real though, i have seen bill, know people at his church and its not a 100% chance of crazy there. just like any person in a movement that is relatively new people tend to take 1% out of 99% and ignore the basic or uncontroversial, and focus on that 1% that they tend to demonize. in reality it is pretty demonic of the people trying to call the man out, because instead of either accepting small doctrinal differences, or coming to him in a spirit of meekness and kindness if he is truly wrong. they call him out publicly and cause division in the body of Christ.

 

[DJ2]

I do not share Bill Johnson's philosophy, as it has been explained, since I had never heard the name before reading this thread, so I am not of his "hue".
All you are doing is trying to damn by association anyone who disagrees with you....

As for you claim of sola scriptura it does not help to justify error...
There are flat earthists on this forum who swear blind by the same claim as you, not to mention the Sabbatarians, Hebrews Roots, and Adventists who also make the same claim.

Sola scriptura is merely a starting place, not an an end justification!

You may have interpreted my criticism of your post as support for Bill Johnson, whoever he is, but you would be absolutely wrong there...
But, of course, you appear to be completely blind to that possibility!

I do not share Bill Johnson's philosophy, as it has been explained, since I had never heard the name before reading this thread, so I am not of his "hue"

You are fooling no one. Your dismissing him as a "flake" is nothing more than an excuse to protect the Pentecostal mindset as a whole.

As for you claim of sola scriptura it does not help to justify error...

Nothing justifies error.

There are flat earthists on this forum who swear blind by the same claim as you, not to mention the Sabbatarians, Hebrews Roots, and Adventists who also make the same claim.

"Damn by association"? I by no means implied that sola scriptura is perfect but it is a stable platform to establish theology, as opposed to the everchanging whims of those who are "led by the spirit".

You may have interpreted my criticism of your post as support for Bill Johnson, whoever he is, but you would be absolutely wrong there...
But, of course, you appear to be completely blind to that possibility!

Since you labeled Bill Johnson a "flake" I did not assume you supported him. My criticism is in the Pentecostal mindset in general, I thought I made that rather clear. So no, I am not "completely blind to that possibility".

 

[lightbearer]

Watch a 37 minute video? eh no thanks.

Right. I did not want to either but I did because you said look and if I can't find anything, then you would post what you got on this guy and his church.

So.....

What sound Doctrine?

What videos? Can you post one?

All believers are to be led by the Holy Spirit. It is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. It is HIM we both move and have our being.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Right. I did not want to either but I did because you said look and if I can't find anything, then you would post what you got on this guy and his church.

So.....

I really don't want to get into posting stuff on the guy. Websearching Bill + Johnson + false will give you plenty of info to keep you busy.

 

[wolfwint]

If one is not being taught by the ___________ but their own understanding then what else do you believe a person is going to see in the Bible but the reflection of their own opinion.

(I left your teacher blank since you know who is teaching you then you don't need me to tell you, right?)



O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? Matt 12:34

So you mean it isn't the Holy Spirit speaking in him?

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13

So who is the father of those who are evil?



Desires or lust? (See John 8:44)

So, I See what he is teaching about healing. It is not the Holy Spirit who gave him this teaching.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Really?

You're quite the hater, I see.

Johnson is & has always been a false teacher/prophet. He is a charismatic, not a Pentecostal.

You have also condemned millions of Pentecostal christians, now the 2nd biggest movement in the church.

I sincerely hope you did this in ignorance, because you crossed the line to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, condemning those who are known to be led by Him.

Sincerely,
a true Pentecostal.

PS, I forgive you.

well I agree with the sentiment you espouse towards the 'tude, but a little info on Johnson as in 'just the facts' presents a different picture

his background is actually Pentecostal, died in the wool Pentecostal, and I would not describe him as Charasmatic either

he is 100% NAR and I grow weary of pointing that out

but google him and he is a main cog in that large and growing number of people who believe they are called to bring Jesus back to an earthly kingdom

 

[7seasrekeyed]

us Pentecostals tend to be like a bag of granola, lots of fruits, nuts, and flakes lol

for real though, i have seen bill, know people at his church and its not a 100% chance of crazy there. just like any person in a movement that is relatively new people tend to take 1% out of 99% and ignore the basic or uncontroversial, and focus on that 1% that they tend to demonize. in reality it is pretty demonic of the people trying to call the man out, because instead of either accepting small doctrinal differences, or coming to him in a spirit of meekness and kindness if he is truly wrong. they call him out publicly and cause division in the body of Christ.

you have seen him?

maybe next time hand him a Bible and tell him to study it without the New Apostolic Revelation he ascribes to

the deeper you dig into the shenanigans of that church, the more it becomes obvious the Bible is simply a suggestion to Bill

it can be twisted any which way to secure 'proof' of what you believe a spirit is telling you

dangerous dangerous dangerous

just say no

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Well let's just hope that Bill Johnson is ignored by the majority of Christians and his book goes nowhere. If a roadrunner got into his church, it means that Johnson is the coyote.

they are in thousands of churches through their music as is Hillsong

'catch the fire' and get burned

 

[Nehemiah6]

If you don't agree with his theology or his interpretation of this strange story, that's your prerogative. But don't take him out of context in order to brand him a heretic or make similar accusations.

There is nothing ungodly about exposing heresies and heretics. Bill Johnson has been identified as a false teacher who teaches heresies, you perhaps you should reconsider your estimation of this preacher.

1. He teaches that Jesus SET ASIDE HIS DIVINITY.

Bill Johnson has promoted this heresy in Face to Face with God on page 108. He said, “Jesus set aside His divinity, choosing instead to live as a man completely dependent on God... In chapter 7 of When Heaven Meets Earth, Johnson claimed,
“[Jesus] laid His divinity aside as He sought to fulfill the assignment given to Him by the Father.”

The Bible reveals that Christ was FULLY GOD at the same time as He was fully sinless Man. BIG DIFFERENCE
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh...(1 Tim 3:16)

2. Bill Johnson incredibly teaches that Jesus was "born again" in the resurrection!

In one sermon... Johnson can be quoted as saying, “So [Jesus] was born through Mary, the Virgin, and then he was born again in the resurrection...However, Bill Johnson says Jesus was born again in many places, including this video, where he asks, “Did you know that Jesus was born again?”
This is not only utter rubbish, but blasphemy. Only sinners need to be born again, not the sinless Son of God.

3. Bill Johnson promotes the false Prosperity Gospel

In a 2013 article entitled Courage to Leave a Legacy, Johnson wrote, “Our connection with God is obviously the source of all blessing, prosperity and goodness in our lives. We make our way prosperous through obedience because when we do what He asks us to do, we strengthen our connection with the source of life.”

The Bible reveals that Christians will enter the Kingdom of God through much tribulation.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. (Rom 8:35,36)

4. Bill Johnson teaches that it is always God's will to heal Christians

In an article entitled Is It Always God’s Will to Heal Someone?, Johnson claims, “When He bore stripes in His body He made a payment for our miracle.”

Again from Scripture as well as personal experience, Christians know this teaching is false. Some of the most devoted and godly Christians have all kinds of physical disabilities and affliction.

5. Bill Johnson teaches the Word of Faith heresy

The Kenyonist heresy, which is more commonly known as the Word of Faith heresy, states that our words have supernatural power akin to that of God when He spoke the world into existence. It states that just like God created with His words, we can create things with our words.

Only God can speak things into existence. Christians can pray and ask God to heal or do anything else. But ultimately it is based on the will of God.

6. Bill Johnson falsely teaches that all Christians can be prophets

He even goes as far as to teach that all Christians have the ability to prophesy. In a sermon clip entitled “All Must Prophesy”, he said, “All of the people of God [are] carrying prophetic anointing.”

Firstly, Scripture makes it perfectly clear that NOT ALL will be prophets. More importantly the book of Revelation makes it perfectly clear that prophecies (which are strictly by divine inspiration, hence the Word of God) have come to an end.

All quotations are from this source: What Are Bill Johnson's Heresies?