Oh goody another OSAS thread!
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S
lol... now that you say that i can see it ....
Satin's teachers never tire of spreading lies.
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S
Jesus, when He sent out the 12, told them to teach those who would here and walk away from those who would not.
There is a time to continue and a time to move on. Time is to short to waste it on those who will never hear.
While it seems to me some spend way to much time on this forum, we do not really know how many read and learn even if they never post.
So, from time to time, I will join in the ENDLESS REPITION.
There is a time to continue and a time to move on. Time is to short to waste it on those who will never hear.
While it seems to me some spend way to much time on this forum, we do not really know how many read and learn even if they never post.
So, from time to time, I will join in the ENDLESS REPITION.
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Yes my true colors as a true believer.
You on the other hand have shown us you don’t understand faith and how faith works.
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26
Who has made known to all nations for the obedience of faith?
JPT
You on the other hand have shown us you don’t understand faith and how faith works.
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26
- God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.
Who has made known to all nations for the obedience of faith?
- God?
- Paul?
- JPT?
JPT
The fact is that no genuine Christian gets on that see-saw.
Genuine faith in Christ results in the New Birth, and all the accompanying supernatural works of God which go with salvation. Therefore we read this in Scripture (1 Pet 1: 2, 5) about those who are children of God:
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied... Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Genuine faith in Christ results in the New Birth, and all the accompanying supernatural works of God which go with salvation. Therefore we read this in Scripture (1 Pet 1: 2, 5) about those who are children of God:
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied... Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
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The word translated believe is from the greek word pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to *entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ).* Obedience which follows "is" works (and we are not saved by works), yet you say believe "is" obedience/works, which is false.
The word translated faith is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4102; pistis; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), *especially reliance upon Christ for salvation* ;abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
Roman Catholics make the same error and I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who made this statement below:
We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..
His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES this list of acts of obedience/works above is false and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works.
I often hear works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics) use this same argument in regards to John 3:36 (NASB) - He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not "obey" the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NKJV says "does not believe the Son" and the NIV says "rejects the Son."
The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject His message by refusing to believe in the Son. Receiving eternal life is not based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows faith in Christ, but we obey by choosing to believe in the Son, just as we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16). If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. So to obey the Son here is to believe in/on the Son.
In John 3:36, (KJV) - "He that BELIEVES on the Son has everlasting life".. *Notice that this BELIEF is not in yourself or in works. Notice also that this BELIEF is not in Jesus Christ "plus something else," otherwise the BELIEF (trust, reliance) would not be "ON THE SON".
That's exactly what happens, as we see in Acts 26:15-18.
Don't confuse faith with obedience/works which follow. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "the word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.
We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) by trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16).
Unfortunately, there are many works-salvationists in various false religions and cults who believe they have repented and do believe the gospel and have been transformed from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God and serve the Lord, but are deceived.
The word translated faith is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4102; pistis; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), *especially reliance upon Christ for salvation* ;abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
Roman Catholics make the same error and I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who made this statement below:
We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..
His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES this list of acts of obedience/works above is false and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works.
I often hear works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics) use this same argument in regards to John 3:36 (NASB) - He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not "obey" the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NKJV says "does not believe the Son" and the NIV says "rejects the Son."
The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject His message by refusing to believe in the Son. Receiving eternal life is not based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows faith in Christ, but we obey by choosing to believe in the Son, just as we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16). If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. So to obey the Son here is to believe in/on the Son.
In John 3:36, (KJV) - "He that BELIEVES on the Son has everlasting life".. *Notice that this BELIEF is not in yourself or in works. Notice also that this BELIEF is not in Jesus Christ "plus something else," otherwise the BELIEF (trust, reliance) would not be "ON THE SON".
- That was the "good news" of the kingdom which was preached to Israel. Now what was the "good news" that Paul preached which he received through a revelation of Jesus Christ which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel? (Galatians 1:11-12; Ephesians 3:1-12).
That's exactly what happens, as we see in Acts 26:15-18.
Don't confuse faith with obedience/works which follow. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "the word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep personal conviction, without reservation, that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply reciting the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.
We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) by trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16).
Unfortunately, there are many works-salvationists in various false religions and cults who believe they have repented and do believe the gospel and have been transformed from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God and serve the Lord, but are deceived.
True believers do not re-define believe/faith "as" obedience/works and teach salvation based on works, but works-salvationists do.
Salvation by works is not how faith works. I understand faith and the difference between faith "and" works and I also understand that faith works through love. Galatians 5:6 - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
"Obedience of faith" does not mean that faith is defined as obedience/works and that we are saved by obedience/works. You sound like a Roman Catholic.
As I previously explained, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith (Romans 1:5).
Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, not by works, then "unto" obedience/works.
Salvation by works is not how faith works. I understand faith and the difference between faith "and" works and I also understand that faith works through love. Galatians 5:6 - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
"Obedience of faith" does not mean that faith is defined as obedience/works and that we are saved by obedience/works. You sound like a Roman Catholic.
As I previously explained, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith (Romans 1:5).
Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, not by works, then "unto" obedience/works.
I would say yes we are warned against vain repetitions... not against godly repetition as we cry out in repetition for an answer looking to his grace, the milk of the word as newborn children of God .It gives us his comfort. So its not repetition that is vain but the way we cry out and to whom. The Catholics cry out in repetition to the legion of workers with familiar spirits (3500 and rising) that they must in vain call Patron saints. Crying out once after any other than our Father in heaven is vanity .
Its like one poster posted :To lose your salvation would require a force greater than God. Remember Who it is that saved you. It's not yourself.
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The only way the principle of faith works, is by obedience.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21
- Was not Abraham our father justified by works
Not the works of the law of Moses
Not the work that earns a wage
Not good works
The work of obedience.
Abraham obeyed God when He told him to offer Issac on the altar.
Abraham demonstrated faith working by love, by His obedience and was justified by faith: By the obedience of faith.
Maybe you believe that by “disobedience” is how we are justified, which means to be declared as righteous.
That is how faith functions, by the corresponding action of obedience to what God says to us..
Faith comes to us by hearing God speak to us.
When we obey what Gos says, then faith becomes “activated” of alive, and able to produce the intended divine result.
Faith without this corresponding act of obedience is dead, and does not function, like a body without a spirit is dead, and does not function.
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26
Now maybe you could answer this simple question.
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26
- God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.
Who has made known to all nations for the obedience of faith?
- God?
- Paul?
- JPT?
JPT
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