Baptism and holy spirit

[shrume]

Matt 11:13 For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

Jesus is speaking of the prophets of the Old Testament. If you believe that there are no prophets after John, then you must think Agabus (Acts 11:27-28), the prophets at Antioch (Acts 13:1), Judas and Silas (Acts 15:32), Agabus again (Acts 21:10), the prophets that are in the church now (1 Cor 12:28; 14:29) are all false prophets.

False prophets starts with many in the 1st century

There were many false prophets in the OT.

through Mohamed to the one in your church.

..................................................

Even Jesus Himself and the disciples/ apostles prophesied but what is considered prophesy for them was actually an interpretation of the prophets and the law.

That's not true.

John the revelator was told to 'prophesy again' and he just repeated what Daniel prophesied in another angle.

I wonder what is being prophesied in your church.

I don't think we have someone with the ministry of a prophet in our church, but most of us operate the manifestation of prophesy.

And as I said, the manifestation of prophesy is speaking words of edification, exhortation, and comfort (1 Cor 14:3).

Many reasons.
1. people must die
2. Psalm 115:15 Precious in the sightof the LORD is the death of His saints.
3. There are 2 groups of Christians; the church of Smyrna aka Jerusalem who will go through tribulations (to refine their faith in Christ) and must die for their faith in Christ. This forms the majority of Christians, they go through tribulations because they are unfaithful/ they don't know God (that's why their faith is refined with fire).
Rev 2:10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

The other group is the church of Philadelphia aka remnant of Judah- these are protected from any harm because they know God and are faithful. They are few, only 144K.

The prophet in your church should be telling you these things.

You do not understand what the manifestation of prophesy is, Noose.

 

[shrume]

My, that was certainly useful and helpful.

 

[Noose]

lol your friend? lol how soon do you forget . Remember what you said?

“we are in the end times and the antichrist also comes with a bag full of fake signs and wonders.”

“The people who asks for gifts will most probably get and evil one”.



these were duped by the antichrist, they truly believed that the signs were from God.

The people who asks for gifts will most probably get and evil one and why is it that majority of the people today only ask for the gift of speaking in a language no one understands?
I know why, they are all fake.

that does not sound like any friend I know you said I did not recieve the gifts of the Holy Spirit I got "evil" I have been dupped by the anti-christ you said. This is why you are most likely a troll. To suggest that about people here who say they have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which this thread is about then attack them with devils, evil, and anti-christ, and do not show any biblical refute to the understanding of those who speak in tongues or ask for the gifts of the Holy Spirit. there are those here who do not agree with and believe the gifts (mainly tongues ) have been done way with. And that is ok I would say to any pentacostel who said they have a devil like you said is to wrong and needs to stop. To you these people have a devil . You have shown great Immaturity and no respect for those who maybe new to the Lord. I would not say you are noit saved but you surely said that here .

It seems i really offended you with my words, i'm sorry.
My words were not intended or directed at your person but i was generally speaking.

But still take heed, for i'm not a troll.

 

[CS1]

1Cor 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

So with you I'm guessing that coveting is the same as asking for? vs 31 earnestly covet the best gifts. Yet tongues is not the best gifts if scripture is correct.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

never said tongues was the best Gift but as I read the whole chapter's of 12, 13, and 14 the last verse Paul ends with

verse 39 1cor 14

" 39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order. "

I would say contextually Paul see tongues as one of the best gifts and can you tell me other than Prophecy what other gift did Paul speak about ? I did not see massive exhortation, or expository instruction for healing, word of wisdom, word of knowledge or any other gifts . all three chapters of 12, 13, and 14 speak in length of tongues and prophecy.

I think The Holy Spirit answered it very clearly your question notuptome found right there in 1cor 12, 13, and 14

 

[CS1]

It seems i really offended you with my words, i'm sorry.
My words were not intended or directed at your person but i was generally speaking.

But still take heed, for i'm not a troll.

It is not I who is offended I am simply pointing out your error. I need not have you say sorry to me. I’m telling you your words are liken to a troll take that as a friendly acknowledgement, that it has been noticed .

 

[Noose]

Jesus is speaking of the prophets of the Old Testament. If you believe that there are no prophets after John, then you must think Agabus (Acts 11:27-28), the prophets at Antioch (Acts 13:1), Judas and Silas (Acts 15:32), Agabus again (Acts 21:10), the prophets that are in the church now (1 Cor 12:28; 14:29) are all false prophets.


There were many false prophets in the OT.
..................................................
That's not true.


I don't think we have someone with the ministry of a prophet in our church, but most of us operate the manifestation of prophesy.

And as I said, the manifestation of prophesy is speaking words of edification, exhortation, and comfort (1 Cor 14:3).


You do not understand what the manifestation of prophesy is, Noose.

John is not an old testament prophet.

And you didn't get what i said; I said the context of prophesy in the new testament was an explanation or a practical living of what was already prophesied.
What Agabus prophesied about Paul or any other apostles was something that was already known- The apostles and the disciples are the two lamp stands/witnesses that stand before the Lord of this earth (antichrist), when they finish their witnessing, the antichrist kills them- that's what happened to all of the apostles.

In another part, it is said that Agabus 'predicted' a famine- here God warned/cautioned them. It is really not a prophesy even though he was referred to as a prophet in the sense that he interpreted prophesy. But this part, i might consider conceding.

The rest are called prophets with respect to what i have said - they interpret prophesy. Otherwise the words of Jesus stand:

Matt 11:13 For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

 

[Noose]

John is not an old testament prophet.

And you didn't get what i said; I said the context of prophesy in the new testament was an explanation or a practical living of what was already prophesied.
What Agabus prophesied about Paul or any other apostles was something that was already known- The apostles and the disciples are the two lamp stands/witnesses that stand before the Lord of this earth (antichrist), when they finish their witnessing, the antichrist kills them- that's what happened to all of the apostles.

In another part, it is said that Agabus 'predicted' a famine- here God warned/cautioned them. It is really not a prophesy even though he was referred to as a prophet in the sense that he interpreted prophesy. But this part, i might consider conceding.

The rest are called prophets with respect to what i have said - they interpret prophesy. Otherwise the words of Jesus stand:

Matt 11:13 For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

Heb 1:1 On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.

 

[shrume]

John is not an old testament prophet.

I know.

And you didn't get what i said; I said the context of prophesy in the new testament was an explanation or a practical living of what was already prophesied.

I did get what you said. I disagree, particularly with regard to the manifestation of prophesy.

What Agabus prophesied about Paul or any other apostles was something that was already known

That's not true:

Acts 21:
11) And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

Agabus was not interpreting a previous OT prophecy.

The apostles and the disciples are the two lamp stands/witnesses that stand before the Lord of this earth (antichrist), when they finish their witnessing, the antichrist kills them- that's what happened to all of the apostles.

If you're suggesting that the apostles and disciples were the two witnesses of Revelation 11, you are wrong. The two witnesses are not here yet.

In another part, it is said that Agabus 'predicted' a famine- here God warned/cautioned them. It is really not a prophesy even though he was referred to as a prophet in the sense that he interpreted prophesy.

Of course it is.

But this part, i might consider conceding.

Well, that's something...

The rest are called prophets with respect to what i have said - they interpret prophesy. Otherwise the words of Jesus stand:

Matt 11:13 For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

Prophets do more than "interpret prophesy", they actually prophesy.

But again, the ministry of a prophet is different from the manifestation of prophesy, which all Christians are to covet to do.

 

[shrume]

Heb 1:1 On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.

And? What's your point?

 

[notuptome]

never said tongues was the best Gift but as I read the whole chapter's of 12, 13, and 14 the last verse Paul ends with

verse 39 1cor 14

" 39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order. "

I would say contextually Paul see tongues as one of the best gifts and can you tell me other than Prophecy what other gift did Paul speak about ? I did not see massive exhortation, or expository instruction for healing, word of wisdom, word of knowledge or any other gifts . all three chapters of 12, 13, and 14 speak in length of tongues and prophecy.

I think The Holy Spirit answered it very clearly your question notuptome found right there in 1cor 12, 13, and 14

Well of course you are going to see it that way. You predetermined that you would see it that way.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Well of course you are going to see it that way. You predetermined that you would see it that way.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I will take that AS you have no explanation for the context and application provided. you have this suble insult in the underlay of your comment. Yet you offer no Biblical contrast to what is given in the all three Chapters . it would be incorrect to have a "predetermined " out come to your question however, the best gifts can be subject to the one reading and what the Holy Spirit has determined to be used at the time HE so chooses. The best Gift? Is the one that will edify, comfort , exhort, Build up , and the Holy Spirit has given at the time. The text "Best" means most effective . What Gift is most effective ? the one the Holy Spirit is using the believer in at the time as HE Ordained to be. And those who see it can Judge if it is of God that is what the chapters of 1cor 12, 13, and 14 says

12:

desire the gifts and they are the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit
13:
using the gift not in love produce nothing

14: How to use the gifts and correct misuse.

you have an issue with what is predetermined then you take it up with the Author of 1cor 12, 13, and 14.

 

[garee]

My Bible says salvation and eternal life and the Holy Spirit are gifts, but you are saying if a person asks for them they are not gifts. And worse, that God is not giving them willingly to the person who asks for them.

No one of their own accord can seek after Him who has nor form .therefore no one understand what to ask for . In John 6 a disciple asked Christ what work could he do to do the works that God requires of us . Jesus said it is the work coming from God

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?


29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

If a person does not know what to ask for and who it is that is giving whatever he is freely given . He could get a snake .John6

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:Romans 3 10-13

I can see the similarity.

God gives some people the ministry of a prophet, but that is not the same as the manifestation of prophesy, which all Christians are to covet to do.

To prophecy is to declare prophesy (the word of God) adding or subtracting from that changes the intent of the word . All believers as a kingdom of priest are sent (apostles) to prophecy or declare the gospel (prophesy). God is no longer brining any new revelations as prophecy as of the last book Revelation. This mean that tongues, God speaking in other languages other than the Hebrew have ceased .Tongues is prophecy no difference just in other languages

Some confusion of those who an make the word prophecy to mean future events . It could include future events but is not the meaning of the word .

 

[shrume]

To prophecy is to declare prophesy (the word of God) adding or subtracting from that changes the intent of the word .

The manifestation of prophesy is to speak to people words of edification, exhortation, and comfort (1 Cor 14:3).

All believers as a kingdom of priest are sent (apostles) to prophecy or declare the gospel (prophesy).

All believers are ambassadors for Christ (2 Cor 5:20). Not all believers have the ministry of an apostle (Eph 3:11).

God is no longer brining any new revelations as prophecy as of the last book Revelation.

Nobody is suggesting that we need things added to the Bible. But there are still people with the ministry of a prophet in the church, and every Christian should covet to operate the manifestation of prophesy (1 Cor 14:5, 39).

This mean that tongues, God speaking in other languages other than the Hebrew have ceased .

Tongues is not "God speaking other languages". It is Christians speaking TO God a language they do not know (1 Cor 14:2).

And tongues have NOT ceased. They will cease "when that which is perfect is come", or "when the completeness comes", referring to the return of Christ.

Tongues is prophecy no difference just in other languages

Tongues is not prophesy. Tongues is people speaking TO God (1 Cor 14:2), prophesy is FROM God (1 or 14:3).

Some confusion of those who an make the word prophecy to mean future events . It could include future events but is not the meaning of the word .

That's right. Prophesy does not always mean predicting the future.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

so has tongues been eradicated yet?

no?

didn't think so...

 

[carl11]

The manifestation of prophesy is to speak to people words of edification, exhortation, and comfort (1 Cor 14:3).

Nobody is suggesting that we need things added to the Bible. But there are still people with the ministry of a prophet in the church, and every Christian should covet to operate the manifestation of prophesy (1 Cor 14:5, 39).

Tongues is not "God speaking other languages". It is Christians speaking TO God a language they do not know (1 Cor 14:2).

And tongues have NOT ceased. They will cease "when that which is perfect is come", or "when the completeness comes", referring to the return of Christ.

Tongues is not prophesy. Tongues is people speaking TO God (1 Cor 14:2), prophesy is FROM God (1 or 14:3).


That's right. Prophesy does not always mean predicting the future.

What does the word edify mean here when God uses it ?

If you speak in tongues which you have said numerous times, then who is giving you these words to speak ? I've yet to see an answer from nobody on this also.

What does prophesy mean to you shrume ?

 

[Noose]

I know.


I did get what you said. I disagree, particularly with regard to the manifestation of prophesy.


That's not true:

Acts 21:
11) And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

Agabus was not interpreting a previous OT prophecy.


If you're suggesting that the apostles and disciples were the two witnesses of Revelation 11, you are wrong. The two witnesses are not here yet.


Of course it is.


Well, that's something...


Prophets do more than "interpret prophesy", they actually prophesy.

But again, the ministry of a prophet is different from the manifestation of prophesy, which all Christians are to covet to do.

Persecution of the apostles was not something new:

John 16:1 “I have said these things to you so that you will not fall away. 2 They will expel you from the synagogue,[a] but an hour is coming that everyone who kills you will think they are offering service to God. 3 And they will do these things because they do not know the Father or me. 4 But I have said these things to you so that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you about them.

Luke 11:48 So you are witnesses who consent to the deeds of your fathers: They killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. 49 Because of this, the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles; some of them they will kill and others they will persecute.’

Jeremiah 2:30
"I have struck your sons in vain; they accepted no discipline. Your own sword has devoured your prophets like a voracious lion.

1 Thess 2:14 For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Judea that are in Christ Jesus. You suffered from your own countrymen the very things they suffered from the Jews, 15who killedboth the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, anddrove us out as well. They are displeasing to God and hostile to all men,

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Call me a liar at your own peril.

I didn't call you a liar...how on EARTH did you arrive at that from what I said...??

 

[CS1]

I didn't call you a liar...how on EARTH did you arrive at that from what I said...??

lol don't get worried he said those who seek the Holy Spirit gifts will get and evil one lol

 

[garee]

The manifestation of prophesy is to speak to people words of edification, exhortation, and comfort (1 Cor 14:3).


All believers are ambassadors for Christ (2 Cor 5:20). Not all believers have the ministry of an apostle (Eph 3:11).


Nobody is suggesting that we need things added to the Bible. But there are still people with the ministry of a prophet in the church, and every Christian should covet to operate the manifestation of prophesy (1 Cor 14:5, 39).


Tongues is not "God speaking other languages". It is Christians speaking TO God a language they do not know (1 Cor 14:2).

And tongues have NOT ceased. They will cease "when that which is perfect is come", or "when the completeness comes", referring to the return of Christ.


Tongues is not prophesy. Tongues is people speaking TO God (1 Cor 14:2), prophesy is FROM God (1 or 14:3).


That's right. Prophesy does not always mean predicting the future.

Tongues, are simply different languages other than the of the Hebrew, that God with mocking lips used to fulfill the sign against ….not in support of those who believe not prophecy spoken of in any language seeing they made the word of God alone as in all things written in the law and the prophets as it is written (sola scriptura) without effect .This is seeing no man can serve two teaching masters. They will either love the oral traditions of the father as commandments of men,or love the commandments God.

Bottom line some are looking or seeking after a sign to confirm that which is not seen as if there were visual gifts (charismatic).This is even though a person cannot find the word "sign" and "gift" working together as if we did walk by sight teaching the kingdom of God does come by observation. And not the unseen eternal faith that alone comes from hearing God through all things written in the law and the prophets .

The key is found in verse 22 of 1 Cor. 14. It seems to fly over the head of those who are looking for outward evidence of a changed heart to confirm something.Turning things upside down as if the Potter had no understanding . Like that of Phillip who Christ used as an example or sign of "faithless" (no faith)

Note.....( purple in parenthesis) my private interpretation as a personal commentary. Red represents those who believe the word of God prophecy, while green natural unconverted man ,the sign seekers

Wherefore tongues are for a "sign", not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying (to include in other languages other than Hebrew) serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Cor. 14

By looking at the reference, Is it a sign that someone has the Spirit of Christ or a sign to confirms those who believe not prophecy to include the new manner called tongues

For with stammering lips (God's mocking lips mocking the apostate Jew who do not believe the word of God (prophecy )and another tongue (other than Hebrew) will he speak to this people.(those who refuse prophecy) To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.Isaiah 28:11-14

 

[yellowcanary]

Have you ever read 1 Corinthians?

Nah, I don't have to read scriptures. I have the gift of knowledge so the Holy Spirit just tells me everything I need to know. Sometimes it has to be interpreted by somebody with that specific gift but most of the time I'm good to go. You do believe in the gift of knowledge, don't you ?