Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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2 Peter 3:14-18
So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

17Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

This was written to the Galatians after Paul is dead.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA wow....I suggest you analyze history a little better.......serious.....and then apply the words of Peter to your belief system.....
 
J

Jeremiah74

Guest
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA wow....I suggest you analyze history a little better.......serious.....and then apply the words of Peter to your belief system.....
I hear ya.. I would be happy if you could explain what Law was Peter referring?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Your comments sound just like the Pharisees. gathering and eating wheat, or even healing is not breaking Sabbath according to the Torah.
So what is your point concerning the Sabbath?
What are your thoughts concerning keeping the OT laws?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Your comments sound just like the Pharisees. gathering and eating wheat, or even healing is not breaking Sabbath according to the Torah.
And your words sound very JEWISH rootish.....I am not under the Torah.....too bad you place yourself under it.....SO.....since you insist on placing yourself under the "TORAH" YOU must keep all 613 laws 24/7/365 without breaking one of the least....if you do...guilty and hell to pay.......good luck
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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AMEN...Jesus dis not come to condemn, but rather to save.....and when in Christ....GRACE out bounds our sin.....and the Love of God which passes ALL UNDERSTANDING covers a multitude of sin......
Agree migo, all of the "Self-righteous - save yourself bunch", are way out of balance. They place all of their "trust" in their performance, rather than placing their whole "trust" entirely on the power of God to save and bring us home safely. They place Jesus in the "foreground" and then place themselves in the "limelight"

We serve an Omniscient God, praise God!

Jeremiah32:17
17 ‘Ah, Lord God! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm!
Nothing is too hard for you.
 
J

Jeremiah74

Guest
And your words sound very JEWISH rootish.....I am not under the Torah.....too bad you place yourself under it.....SO.....since you insist on placing yourself under the "TORAH" YOU must keep all 613 laws 24/7/365 without breaking one of the least....if you do...guilty and hell to pay.......good luck
That is a very valid statement all tho we are Not supposed to do something just to force it to work.

Shouldn't we know what the Torah says?

How many of the 613 commands can we observe correctly with what exist today and Not being in the Land?

Where can you find where God or Jesus says not to follow Torah?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Enduring to the end means that you watch and hold stedfast, lest you fall. Lots of scriptures tell us this doctrine.

I thought the church was going to be caught up to Christ and miss the tribulation problems? Can you tell me what you think?
No, only truly BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS who believe they were Baptized in to HIS Spiritual Body by the HOLY SPIRIT, and the Dead in the Messiah (both N.T. Saints and O.T. Saints) will be invited to go to the Wedding of the LAMB in Heaven. I already have my invitation, HOW ABOUT YOU ? ? ?

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
3 First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
4 saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”
 
J

Jeremiah74

Guest
That is a very valid statement all tho we are Not supposed to do something just to force it to work.

Shouldn't we know what the Torah says?

How many of the 613 commands can we observe correctly with what exist today and Not being in the Land?

Where can you find where God or Jesus says not to follow Torah?
1 John 5:1
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Sounds a little bit too much like Ralph......and EG is right the context is enduring the tribulation and physical preservation.....

Ralph as in it made you barf? Or ralph as in pHart? :LOL:
Can't help it if I sound like someone else.
And I disagree.
And now you say: obviously...:)
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Is a person who believes for a while, then no longer believes still a believer?




JPT


i think this went unanswered


bump
vvv


huh?

how can you be a believer if you prove you are not through unbelief?


4102. pistis
Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

4100. pisteuó
Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.




clearly if you say you believe
and even think you believe in something

but you have no confidence
no trust
no FAITH in it

then what you truely believe is revealed by what your confidence is in


so no... they would not be a believer they would be a pretender who was exposed




if someone at a store asks me "do you know how to get to my house from here"

and i ask them
do you have faith i will tell you the truth?

and they think "sure why not"
and tell me "absolutely"

then i say to them "you just need to go west"

and they say "thank you so so so much i believe you"

they are smiling
and feeling happy
and thinking "what a nice man he is to help me get home from here"

they finish their shopping

and leave the store

then decide

"eh i know he said west.... but honestly i think i go south to get home"

then they go south and get lost.....




did they believe me?
did they have confidence in me?
did they have trust in me?


based on the definition of belief
id say they thought they believed me
but nah

they actually trusted themself
and believed themself
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Agree migo, all of the "Self-righteous - save yourself bunch", are way out of balance. They place all of their "trust" in their performance, rather than placing their whole "trust" entirely on the power of God to save and bring us home safely. They place Jesus in the "foreground" and then place themselves in the "limelight"

We serve an Omniscient God, praise God!

Jeremiah32:17
17 ‘Ah, Lord God! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm!
Nothing is too hard for you.
AMEN...any doctrine that places emphasis upon self in any form or fashion takes away from the glory directed at the Heavenly Father through JESUS......and said doctrine is false and not biblical.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Ralph as in it made you barf? Or ralph as in pHart? :LOL:
Can't help it if I sound like someone else.
And I disagree.
And now you say: obviously...:)
Show me the context of the salvation of the soul found in Matthew 24.....simple enough task.....and then grammatically tie the words endure unto the end shall be saved to the salvation of the soul........we will wait.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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That is a very valid statement all tho we are Not supposed to do something just to force it to work.

Shouldn't we know what the Torah says?

How many of the 613 commands can we observe correctly with what exist today and Not being in the Land?

Where can you find where God or Jesus says not to follow Torah?
Why should I be fully immersed into and pay attention to rules, laws and regulations that have no application in my life?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Show me the context of the salvation of the soul found in Matthew 24.....simple enough task.....and then grammatically tie the words endure unto the end shall be saved to the salvation of the soul........we will wait.
Okay, you win. It only means: and those who survive physically dying are physically alive.
It has nothing to do with anything else.
It just means: those who don't die are alive.
Kind of common sense that those who don't die are still alive, but okay. :p
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
i think this went unanswered


bump
vvv


huh?

how can you be a believer if you prove you are not through unbelief?


4102. pistis
Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

4100. pisteuó
Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.




clearly if you say you believe
and even think you believe in something

but you have no confidence
no trust
no FAITH in it

then what you truely believe is revealed by what your confidence is in


so no... they would not be a believer they would be a pretender who was exposed




if someone at a store asks me "do you know how to get to my house from here"

and i ask them
do you have faith i will tell you the truth?

and they think "sure why not"
and tell me "absolutely"

then i say to them "you just need to go west"

and they say "thank you so so so much i believe you"

they are smiling
and feeling happy
and thinking "what a nice man he is to help me get home from here"

they finish their shopping

and leave the store

then decide

"eh i know he said west.... but honestly i think i go south to get home"

then they go south and get lost.....




did they believe me?
did they have confidence in me?
did they have trust in me?


based on the definition of belief
id say they thought they believed me
but nah

they actually trusted themself
and believed themself
i understand that those who are confused and still think we are saved by our walk would be under the illusion one could lose their salvation


but those who understand we are saved by grace through faith......

how could you think you could stop believing?

do you think someone could convince you or talk you out of belief in Jesus?


do you seriously think you believe because you choose to believe?

you think your will power is whats helping you endure?... or you think one would NEED will power to maintain faith?


...i cannot understand this mindset at all....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Okay, you win. It only means: and those who survive physically dying are physically alive.
It has nothing to do with anything else.
It just means: those who don't die are alive.
Kind of common sense that those who don't die are still alive, but okay. :p
Not a contest to be won or lost.....simple enough equation.....the word saved is not always applicable unto the salvation of the soul....if Matthew 24 is about the salvation of the soul there should be contextual markers that identify it as such....not being mouthy with you....just asing for you to support your conclusion with..

a. Contextual support
b. Proof that it means the salvation of the soul
c. Other texts in context that put the salvation of the soul upon man's shoulders by enduring something (which = a works based salvation)

I will give you a few examples of enduring and being preserved physically....

Jonah endured three days and three nights in the fish's belly and was physically saved or preserved

Noah and his family ENDURED the flood and were PHYSICALLY preserved or saved

Rahab endured the siege and fall of Jericho and was PHYSICALLY preserved or saved
 
Oct 31, 2015
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I'm gonna agree with you.

But and it's not a nasty but but gonna ask you a question.

Why do you think Jesus said to the adulteress woman "Neither do I condemn you?

Because she repented.


Now I will ask you a question.


Why do you think Jesus said to this same woman "Go and sin no more"?


She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. John 8:11




JPT
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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To all those who think that if you're "truly" saved you will not stop believing, what about Demas, and Titus?

Col 4:14) Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.
Phlm 1:24) Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.

2 Tim 4:10) For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

Paul considered Demas a fellowlaborer, and yet towards the end of Paul's life, Demas had forsaken him, having loved the present world.

Titus had departed to Dalmatia. Admittedly, that short statement does not say that Titus stopped believing, but the context is people leaving Paul, and loving the present world.

Also:

2 Tim 1:
15) This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

Do you believe that all those in Asia who had deserted Paul were never "truly" saved?
 
Oct 31, 2015
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how can you be a believer if you prove you are not through unbelief?

I am a believer and will continue to believe to the end.


There is no unbelief here in my life.



Those who believe for a while then no longer believe, and no longer believers, and are no longer saved.



JPT