The cultic origins of Annihilationism
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the context of eternal life is the relationship you have with Christ. rev 20:13-15
13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if [k]anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
what is the context to the Lake of fire ? we must look at scripture to see what it says not what we think. back up to verse 10 of this chapter :
"10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and [f]brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Now we have context to the Lake of Fire that we see in verses 13-15
did those who's names were not found get thrown into the same lake of fire the devil, beast, and the false prophet were placed in to be tormented day and night?
YES!
so you have an issue with the word of God and the context of what is an enternal place where hell , death, hades are thrown into. Forever, to be tormented for every.
hell 101
13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if [k]anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
what is the context to the Lake of fire ? we must look at scripture to see what it says not what we think. back up to verse 10 of this chapter :
"10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and [f]brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Now we have context to the Lake of Fire that we see in verses 13-15
did those who's names were not found get thrown into the same lake of fire the devil, beast, and the false prophet were placed in to be tormented day and night?
YES!
so you have an issue with the word of God and the context of what is an enternal place where hell , death, hades are thrown into. Forever, to be tormented for every.
hell 101
Why did He call them dead if they were living?
A "living" walking dead person who was born with eternal life in them. That's amazing...
A "living" walking dead person who was born with eternal life in them. That's amazing...
Jesus called them dead, because He knew they were spiritually dead. I think you agree with me that children who die before the age of accountability are going to be in Heaven. I believe that's what Paul was referring to when he said he was ALIVE before he knew about the law.
So for all intents and purposes, we are born spiritually alive until we are held accountable by the knowledge of the Law. That's what Paul told us.
No...I don't have an issue with the word of God. And it does say the unholy trinity will be in torture forever and ever. As I said, from all I read, satan does seem to be an eternal being, so I can understand him being...indestructible, and therefore tortured forever.
It does not however, specifically say about all the others that have a part in the lake of fire, that they are in torture forever. (Or at least not that I've found). And, it doesn't fit with humans, who don't have eternity in them (except by the new birth), to be eternal and therefore be tormented forever and ever.
It does not however, specifically say about all the others that have a part in the lake of fire, that they are in torture forever. (Or at least not that I've found). And, it doesn't fit with humans, who don't have eternity in them (except by the new birth), to be eternal and therefore be tormented forever and ever.
One avenue that we can go down is that we can say that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the world (as scripture says), and therefore the only sin people are really being judged for is their rejection of the Gospel. Same crime, equal punishment.
Of course, we might also conclude that since they have not received Jesus' sacrifice by faith, it is not attributed to their account and therefore are liable, and must face the consequences of their sins (all of them). Yet, if the world is condemned already being outside of Christ, then being in Christ is the mark (a righteousness that is of faith). Not that their sins don't matter, but Jesus matters. This would make them all guilty of the same crime, rejection of the Son. The one sin that truly is unpardonable, unbelief (from sinners).
Of course, we might also conclude that since they have not received Jesus' sacrifice by faith, it is not attributed to their account and therefore are liable, and must face the consequences of their sins (all of them). Yet, if the world is condemned already being outside of Christ, then being in Christ is the mark (a righteousness that is of faith). Not that their sins don't matter, but Jesus matters. This would make them all guilty of the same crime, rejection of the Son. The one sin that truly is unpardonable, unbelief (from sinners).
Yes, I am the one who brought up the verse. It was a...rebuttal to the statement about "obliterating everyone equally," which I said I didn't know about (wasn't sure about), because of the verse I gave.
Do you understand that I was rebutting your statement of "obliterating everyone equally" by giving a verse that seemed to suggest that does not happen? I did not unwittingly further your point. I knew exactly what I was doing.
You're an odd duck sometimes...
Do you understand that I was rebutting your statement of "obliterating everyone equally" by giving a verse that seemed to suggest that does not happen? I did not unwittingly further your point. I knew exactly what I was doing.
You're an odd duck sometimes...
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Yes, I am the one who brought up the verse. It was a...rebuttal to the statement about "obliterating everyone equally," which I said I didn't know about (wasn't sure about), because of the verse I gave.
Do you understand that I was rebutting your statement of "obliterating everyone equally" by giving a verse that seemed to suggest that does not happen? I did not unwittingly further your point. I knew exactly what I was doing.
You're an odd duck sometimes...
Do you understand that I was rebutting your statement of "obliterating everyone equally" by giving a verse that seemed to suggest that does not happen? I did not unwittingly further your point. I knew exactly what I was doing.
You're an odd duck sometimes...
Quack.
God expects us to make simple deductions from what He has revealed. So all you have to do is put the two passages together and see that they are speaking about the same thing. Why are you expecting redundancy? Please note:
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev 20:10).
You accept this as eternal torment. Fine. Now look at this verse:
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev 21:8)
So if it is the same Lake of Fire (which it is) then why should there be any difference between the eternal torment of angelic beings and human beings?
Why are you expecting the second verse to repeat: and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever?
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Rev 20:10).
You accept this as eternal torment. Fine. Now look at this verse:
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev 21:8)
So if it is the same Lake of Fire (which it is) then why should there be any difference between the eternal torment of angelic beings and human beings?
Why are you expecting the second verse to repeat: and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever?
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We are a born with temporal corrupted spirit life (approx. 70 years) until the law came and took away any confidence of having any spirit life after we die .If a person does not receive a new incorruptible spirit before they die they will never rise to the house their new born again spirit in their incorruptible body (not flesh and blood)
Yes, I did get that you thought you were pointing out a possible flaw in the belief of annihilationism by repeating my own point and verse.
No, I wasn't refuting annihilationism...I was refuting your insistence that annihilation necessarily and absolutely had to be obliterating everyone equally. For all I know Hitler and Dahmer don't get the mercy of annihilation and Mrs. Cafferty from up the street does get that mercy.
No, I wasn't refuting annihilationism...I was refuting your insistence that annihilation necessarily and absolutely had to be obliterating everyone equally. For all I know Hitler and Dahmer don't get the mercy of annihilation and Mrs. Cafferty from up the street does get that mercy.
We are not to go above that which is written by the oral traditions of the jewish fathe,.having another authority other than prophecy as the word of God alone simply make the word of God without effect .
Can't serve two teaching masters .God's tradition the Bible and the oral traditions of men as the law of the fathers.
Hate one ;love the other or ;love one hate the other
Can't serve two teaching masters .God's tradition the Bible and the oral traditions of men as the law of the fathers.
Hate one ;love the other or ;love one hate the other
But... you were, with the verse intentionally or not, revealed a flaw in annihilationism. Just saying. lol In your stance, from what I see, you make room for some being destroyed and others not. What happened to the whole "the penalty for sin is death" chant, from annihilationists? Now we are introducing extinction as a form of mercy?
In your stance, from what I see, you make room for some being destroyed and others not. What happened to the whole "the penalty for sin is death" chant, from annihilationists? Now we are introducing extinction as a form of mercy?