Not By Works

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shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
463
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Agape is sacrificial love, peter could only tell jesus he had phileo (brotherly love) love, yet jesus said go feed his sheep. So i agree, agape is not required, in fact, i think it takes alot to find true agape love. The pharisee had love of self, amen.
(I think we're agreeing, but not sure. :) )

Agape in and of itself is neither good or bad. Again, the Pharisees were committed to (agape) the praise of men.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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If you're relying on your obedience to stay saved you might want to rethink your plan. Since Heaven requires 100% righteousness and 0% sin our only chance at salvation is by being in Christ. All our obedience, good works whatever are as filthy rags. ONLY Jesus saves. Not Jesus plus obedience or Jesus plus anything else.
If you think you can be born again, having a new nature empowered by the Spirit, in which we are given all things that pertain to life and godliness, and go back to living as a slave to sin, and think you will inherit the kingdom of God, then you have been sadly deceived my friend.

Are you saying you don’t want to walk in the Spirit, so that you don’t practice the works of the flesh?

  • For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.



16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. Romans 6:16-19


  • Christian’s who practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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With regards to your second question. He wasn't talking about sinless perfection. He obviously knew she was guilty otherwise he would not have told her go sin no more.

He was telling her to stop committing adultery.

Is there a certain sin you are not willing to repent of?



JPT
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
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Is there a certain sin you are not willing to repent of?



JPT
That wasn't the point.

Anyway post a verse that shows she repented before she met and after she left him.

Jesus said go sin no more.
So you feel Jesus was addressing all of her sins.
If so be honest from the start and state so.

Post a verse to back up her repentance then I will discuss more, if not don't deflect then we will leave it at that.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
408
174
43
If you think you can be born again, having a new nature empowered by the Spirit, in which we are given all things that pertain to life and godliness, and go back to living as a slave to sin, and think you will inherit the kingdom of God, then you have been sadly deceived my friend.

Are you saying you don’t want to walk in the Spirit, so that you don’t practice the works of the flesh?

  • For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.



16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. Romans 6:16-19


  • Christian’s who practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.



JPT
How did you conclude that he was going back to sin after he simply believed in Jesus for his salvation. He said, it's not Jesus plus our obedience or anything else. He said it's 100% jesus and not Jesus plus somthing, like you are suggesting we need to do all of those things you listed.
Your understanding of what the Bible teaches is confused, you added all of those other things when Jesus said "Believe in me and you will be saved" He never said believe in me and do all of those things you listed. That's salvation by works, that's what the Pharisees taught.
It sounds like you are trying to mix Judaism and Christianity into one, it will never work.
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
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That wasn't the point.

Anyway post a verse that shows she repented before she met and after she left him.

Jesus said go sin no more.
So you feel Jesus was addressing all of her sins.
If so be honest from the start and state so.

Post a verse to back up her repentance then I will discuss more, if not don't deflect then we will leave it at that.

Right here in the verse:

She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” John 8:11


Repent means turn to God.

The way we demonstrate that we have repented, turned to God, is by confessing Jesus as Lord.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10
  • If a person turns to God, then by default they have turned away from Satan as their lord.

The way we demonstrate that we have repented, turned to God, is by confessing Jesus as Lord.

This is the Gospel of the kingdom. This is the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the Gospel that Jesus taught to Paul.


  • turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins


15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ 19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:15-20



Likewise we see the same situation with the thief on the cross.


42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Luke 23:42-43



The Lord looks at the heart. It's not just lip service, but the condition of the heart when someone calls on the name of the Lord, or confesses Him as Lord.


Many believe that the woman caught in adultery was Mary Magdalene.


A woman who followed Jesus after she was delivered.




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
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How did you conclude that he was going back to sin after he simply believed in Jesus for his salvation. He said, it's not Jesus plus our obedience or anything else. He said it's 100% jesus and not Jesus plus somthing, like you are suggesting we need to do all of those things you listed.
Your understanding of what the Bible teaches is confused, you added all of those other things when Jesus said "Believe in me and you will be saved" He never said believe in me and do all of those things you listed. That's salvation by works, that's what the Pharisees taught.
It sounds like you are trying to mix Judaism and Christianity into one, it will never work.

Believe means commit, trust and obey.


It may seem confusing if you don't understand what the biblical word believe means.


Believing the Gospel means obeying the Gospel command to repent.

Repent means to turn to God.


If you are called to turn to God, then by default you are called to turn away from Satan as your lord.


The way we obey this command is to confess Jesus as Lord.


  • that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus


8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:8-10


  • with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


This is the Gospel that Jesus taught to Paul, and that Paul preached.


in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins


15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:15-20


  • that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.


Those who believe the Gospel, obey the Gospel by confessing Jesus as Lord, in which we submit to Him to obey Him and the laws of His kingdom.


Loving God and loving people.


If you hate a person then you are disobeying His commandment to love.




Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15





JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
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That wasn't the point.

Anyway post a verse that shows she repented before she met and after she left him.

Jesus said go sin no more.
So you feel Jesus was addressing all of her sins.
If so be honest from the start and state so.

Post a verse to back up her repentance then I will discuss more, if not don't deflect then we will leave it at that.

It was my point.


Jesus told the woman to sin no more.


By your standards, that means as long as she stops being an adulterous, she can lie and steal and covet... and be just fine on the Day of Judgement.


Total Nonsense.




JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
With regards to your second question. He wasn't talking about sinless perfection. He obviously knew she was guilty otherwise he would not have told her go sin no more.

He was telling her to stop committing adultery.


Born again, Spirit filled Christians who live according to the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Walking or living according to the flesh, means our lifestyle is spent gratifying the sinful desires of the flesh.

Living as a slave to sin.

Practicing sin. Practicing the works of the flesh.



Living "according to the flesh" means that we allow our sinful desires to override the righteous and moral good in our conduct.


Obeying unrighteousness. Disobeying the truth.

Doing evil.




JLB
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
113
It was my point.


Jesus told the woman to sin no more.


By your standards, that means as long as she stops being an adulterous, she can lie and steal and covet... and be just fine on the Day of Judgement.


Total Nonsense.




JPT
Yes that's what you speak.

You don't know my standards so stop judging.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
113
Right here in the verse:

She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” John 8:11


Repent means turn to God.

The way we demonstrate that we have repented, turned to God, is by confessing Jesus as Lord.



  • If a person turns to God, then by default they have turned away from Satan as their lord.

The way we demonstrate that we have repented, turned to God, is by confessing Jesus as Lord.

This is the Gospel of the kingdom. This is the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the Gospel that Jesus taught to Paul.


  • turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins


15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ 19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:15-20



Likewise we see the same situation with the thief on the cross.


42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Luke 23:42-43



The Lord looks at the heart. It's not just lip service, but the condition of the heart when someone calls on the name of the Lord, or confesses Him as Lord.


Many believe that the woman caught in adultery was Mary Magdalene.


A woman who followed Jesus after she was delivered.




JPT
That does not say or indicate she repented.
There are people who don't believe it was Mary

You obviously do as you say the woman repented.

But as I said there is nothing in those verses to say she repented.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
If you're relying on your obedience to stay saved you might want to rethink your plan. Since Heaven requires 100% righteousness and 0% sin our only chance at salvation is by being in Christ. All our obedience, good works whatever are as filthy rags. ONLY Jesus saves. Not Jesus plus obedience or Jesus plus anything else.

That is why muslims place such a high priority on obedience. They are trying to save themselves. Salvation is by Christ alone.

Not saying you or anyone else is a muslim, it was just an example.

spot on
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
113
Right here in the verse:

She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” John 8:11


Repent means turn to God.

The way we demonstrate that we have repented, turned to God, is by confessing Jesus as Lord.



  • If a person turns to God, then by default they have turned away from Satan as their lord.

The way we demonstrate that we have repented, turned to God, is by confessing Jesus as Lord.

This is the Gospel of the kingdom. This is the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the Gospel that Jesus taught to Paul.


  • turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins


15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ 19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:15-20



Likewise we see the same situation with the thief on the cross.


42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Luke 23:42-43



The Lord looks at the heart. It's not just lip service, but the condition of the heart when someone calls on the name of the Lord, or confesses Him as Lord.


Many believe that the woman caught in adultery was Mary Magdalene.


A woman who followed Jesus after she was delivered.




JPT
I know what repentance means

Go look at why Jesus could not condemn her.
Under the Mosaic Law he could not condemn her, her penalty was stoning.
Under Roman Civil Law he could not condemn her, had he done so then he would have been tried, found guilty and probably crucified.

The whole concourse was a plan to trap Jesus, but he turned it around.

Not one person could condemn her, because not one was without sin.
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
Yes that's what you speak.

You don't know my standards so stop judging.

The only standards you indicated was this statement -


He wasn't talking about sinless perfection. He obviously knew she was guilty otherwise he would not have told her go sin no more.

He was telling her to stop committing adultery.

Was Jesus telling her to sin no more or just stop committing adultery?



JPT
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Right here in the verse:

She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” John 8:11


Repent means turn to God.

The way we demonstrate that we have repented, turned to God, is by confessing Jesus as Lord.

This shows she repented? Wow man, Talk about drawing up things to support your view.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
It was my point.


Jesus told the woman to sin no more.


By your standards, that means as long as she stops being an adulterous, she can lie and steal and covet... and be just fine on the Day of Judgement.


Total Nonsense.




JPT
By your standard. Jesus told her never to commit another sin period or else.

In that case, No one will make it to heaven, Including you!