Are Roman Catholics Christians

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe we are like robots in a way, because we are only what God made us to be.

Be careful, Your saying people like Hitler and all the other evil dictators who lived and breathed evil, and those men who rape and murder our children are the people God made them to be.

I think God came to save us, and restor us to the people God made us to be, If we are not born again, we will never be that person

That is not to say as pharoah, God will not set people in places of power to do his will But he does not force them to do his will, he uses their free will to do his will.

We can't change a single thing in this whole universe, we rely on Him for our next breath.

Agree

The love that's in us was put there by God Himself, we can't produce love because only God is love.

A non child of God can not produce love, we love because God first loved us. If God does not share his love through grace as we trust our lives to him freely and openly, like the tax collector did, We have not experienced love, and about all we have left is at best psuedo love.

I believe every atom in the universe is exactly where God preordained it to be and He causes all things that happen to happen. If that wasn't the case then God wouldn't be all powerful, all mighty, all knowing and all the rest of His amazing qualities.

Jonah will beg to differ with you, God had to convince him to freely chose to go to a nation he hated. God did not force him to do anything. God willed that Israel follow him, Yet as Jesus said, they were not willing.

as for atoms in the universe, trying to compair them to humans is little out there do you not think?

God can be all powerful in spite of giving man free will. He has the ability and the freedom to give up some things in order to have his creation have free will

You can not say God is all powerful. then claim he has no power to give up some rights so his creation can have free will so he can truly show his true love to them

Our God is an infinitely wise God so He knows the whole of human history from it's beginning to the end, He preordained everything so nothing takes Him by surprise. Even the evil and suffering are part of His creation, He created Satan and Satan is doing exactly as God created him to do.

Oh I agree. He knew who would chose him, and who would reject him, He knows who will do what he needs done, so he can set them in place so they can do his will. He knows who has true faith, and who may believe, but has so weak faith they will one day walk away. so he will not save them.

Anyway, this is a catholic thread, would love to continue this conversation but lets do it in another thread and ps I am not arguing with you, Just sharing my view, I consider you a brother.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well we shall just wait and see. We get ring side seats in heaven to behold God working at the end of the world. I hope we get free popcorn and pure water to drink.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

amen to that bro, Save me a seat!

 

[Danny1988]

Be careful, Your saying people like Hitler and all the other evil dictators who lived and breathed evil, and those men who rape and murder our children are the people God made them to be.

I think God came to save us, and restor us to the people God made us to be, If we are not born again, we will never be that person

That is not to say as pharoah, God will not set people in places of power to do his will But he does not force them to do his will, he uses their free will to do his will.




Agree


A non child of God can not produce love, we love because God first loved us. If God does not share his love through grace as we trust our lives to him freely and openly, like the tax collector did, We have not experienced love, and about all we have left is at best psuedo love.


Jonah will beg to differ with you, God had to convince him to freely chose to go to a nation he hated. God did not force him to do anything. God willed that Israel follow him, Yet as Jesus said, they were not willing.

as for atoms in the universe, trying to compair them to humans is little out there do you not think?

God can be all powerful in spite of giving man free will. He has the ability and the freedom to give up some things in order to have his creation have free will

You can not say God is all powerful. then claim he has no power to give up some rights so his creation can have free will so he can truly show his true love to them



Oh I agree. He knew who would chose him, and who would reject him, He knows who will do what he needs done, so he can set them in place so they can do his will. He knows who has true faith, and who may believe, but has so weak faith they will one day walk away. so he will not save them.

Anyway, this is a catholic thread, would love to continue this conversation but lets do it in another thread and ps I am not arguing with you, Just sharing my view, I consider you a brother.

I agree with most of what you said, there's only a few minor details we may differ on. Weather God created those evil people to do those evil things is still not 100% settled in my mind. I would rather agree with you but I need to reconcile that with Gods sovereignty over all things. I take "all things" literally, so that causes me many problems.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree with most of what you said, there's only a few minor details we may differ on. Weather God created those evil people to do those evil things is still not 100% settled in my mind. I would rather agree with you but I need to reconcile that with Gods sovereignty over all things. I take "all things" literally, so that causes me many problems.

I appear to have the same issue, only of a different type. If God created evil, and these evil men did what God desired them to do. Then I have an issue with God. namely that he is not the God of Love that he claims to be, and that he should not judge evil when he is the one who basically forced people to do evil. Granted, as romans 1 says, we let them go the way they wanted, thus they have no excuse, however, if as you say is true, they did not want to because God did not want them to, Thus they did not choce to walk away, God forced them to.

 

[Danny1988]

I appear to have the same issue, only of a different type. If God created evil, and these evil men did what God desired them to do. Then I have an issue with God. namely that he is not the God of Love that he claims to be, and that he should not judge evil when he is the one who basically forced people to do evil. Granted, as romans 1 says, we let them go the way they wanted, thus they have no excuse, however, if as you say is true, they did not want to because God did not want them to, Thus they did not choce to walk away, God forced them to.

That's exactly what my brother says to me, he's still a Catholic. I just answered him by saying we can not get into the mind of God, because we are fallen sinners with a very small finite capacity to understand an unlimited infinite God.

We will not know some things during this life, but I believe God will reveal everything to us at the appointed time when we receive our glorified bodies and minds. So I don't think we should jump to conclusions, rather we should obey and trust Him in all things.

 

[garee]

thanks for the clarification.

Isreal does not follow the antichrist, If anything all he does is pass a peace agreement (covenant) with them, After 3.5 years where he desecrates the temple. They are told to flee. where God will protect them.

I see AC as the prince who is to come in Daniel 9, who comes from the people who destroyed the temple in ad 70. thats why I say he is from rome or europe or something resembling the iron beast, (he is called the beast of iron and clay)

I would suggest all Israel is not born-again Israel, just as an outward Jew does not equal an inward Jew born again of the Spirit of Christ.... as Christians the new name God personally named his people at the time of reformation. no longer uses a outward Jew or Israel.

The anti christs as another mediator other than Christ , the Holy anointing Spirit are those who deny the son and the father. He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son.


They would say we have flesh and blood Abraham used as a metaphor to represent our Father in heaven, as a father of a multitude of nations , or the like the Catholics who follow the same kind of wisdom of this world ….we have Peter unto our father .Denying the teaching to call no man father of earth father for one not seen is in heaven .

Two kinds of fathers those who believe all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) and those who make scripture to no effect through the oral tradition of men called a law of fathers. The later Christ called a brood of vipers .. a way of saying false prophets

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son.(one God) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.1 john 2:22-23

The no- born again Israel refuses to recognize the veil is rent signifying Christ as the Son of man has come. They to this day have a remnant of a wall that they cry out to as a image idol hoping he will come in the flesh and destroy the gentiles.

The promise was to give one outward demonstration of the work of the Spirit not seen. They are still waiting for the bleating of sheep or a red heftier and mend the torn veil .

 

[PurpleCandles]

Look scary brother, nothing we can do, it is prophecied, it must happen, seem to me it will happen in the near future, all we can do is close to Him as must we can.

I had to check my profile to make sure I didn't write the wrong thing there when I joined. I'm not a brother.
Your post there is reiterating predetermination. Did you mean to impart that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would suggest all Israel is not born-again Israel, just as an outward Jew does not equal an inward Jew born again of the Spirit of Christ.... as Christians the new name God personally named his people at the time of reformation. no longer uses a outward Jew or Israel.

The anti christs as another mediator other than Christ , the Holy anointing Spirit are those who deny the son and the father. He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son.


They would say we have flesh and blood Abraham used as a metaphor to represent our Father in heaven, as a father of a multitude of nations , or the like the Catholics who follow the same kind of wisdom of this world ….we have Peter unto our father .Denying the teaching to call no man father of earth father for one not seen is in heaven .

Two kinds of fathers those who believe all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) and those who make scripture to no effect through the oral tradition of men called a law of fathers. The later Christ called a brood of vipers .. a way of saying false prophets

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son.(one God) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.1 john 2:22-23

The no- born again Israel refuses to recognize the veil is rent signifying Christ as the Son of man has come. They to this day have a remnant of a wall that they cry out to as a image idol hoping he will come in the flesh and destroy the gentiles.

The promise was to give one outward demonstration of the work of the Spirit not seen. They are still waiting for the bleating of sheep or a red heftier and mend the torn veil .

Israel is said to be restored BEFORE she repents (she is still offering animal sacrifice). then at the end, she repents, and ALL ISRAEL will be saved, as paul declaired.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's exactly what my brother says to me, he's still a Catholic. I just answered him by saying we can not get into the mind of God, because we are fallen sinners with a very small finite capacity to understand an unlimited infinite God.

We will not know some things during this life, but I believe God will reveal everything to us at the appointed time when we receive our glorified bodies and minds. So I don't think we should jump to conclusions, rather we should obey and trust Him in all things.

just remember, that jumping to conclusions goes both ways my friend..lol

 

[Seedz]

Experence is not the validator of spiritual truths. God's word as it is written alone is .Some went out because they were not of the unseen us .

You are right, experience is not validation of proof. Ironically, most Christians believe that they know the truth based on their experience.

I'm solely stating that I don't think I have all the answers, and that my experience with Christianity has confused me and I am not convinced that it (Christianity) is the bearer of truth due to all of the confusion and disagreements within the circles of faith.

For some reason people automatically assume they know the truth, (I know I did) and if we are all honest, it's false. No one knows anything. As long as the Bible continues to be interpreted, there will be disagreement. You can't base a structure for living off something so inconsistent and broad.

 

[Jackson123]

I didn't get saved by going to church. I never aligned myself with any denomination in practice or faith and the link you provided is full of typos and spelling errors so it's difficult to take seriously especially when the bottom of the page identifies it to be of Baptist origin. What I was looking for was evidence that the Pope or the vatican has access to weapons of mass destruction in volumes great enough to carry out a battle of appocolypticol size enough for me to suspect that the Pope is in fact the Antichrist. I most certainly know how devious and clever the Vatican be but it's hard to take someone serious that says they'd like to baptize E.T.s, nope, don't buy it, yet.

A lot of people say that vatican infiltrate almost every country in the world, we have to do a lot of reading, these are same link

http://www.sinhalanet.net/three-cor...city-of-london-washington-dc-and-vatican-city

https://mainerepublicemailalert.com...s-governments-global-companies-your-mortgage/

If you google you will find thousands more

 

[Seedz]

Could I encourage you to repent and do the first works again. God will receive you back into His family, I was back slidden for years but I repented and found forgiveness and a new life.
All you need to do is forget everything that has happened and what you may have concluded and come to the table with a fresh approach. Get on your knees and pray, God will not turn you away. He will bless you and liberate you from confusion, you will be free indeed.

The thing is that I've repented and recommitted my life to Jesus more than once. I've really tried, like really hard. Some might say I'm still saved, who knows, everyone will tell you what they believe.

I know the Bible does carry a lot of truths, and a lot of its teachings are useful for life.

I still live and will continue to live by some of the values within the text, but I realized that reaching God, according to the way we think Christianity works was and is something similar to washing a car, or making a bed...

My point is that not only do I don't feel certain as to what is truth, but also why would a relationship with the creator be of so high maintenance and why am I constantly feeling guilt that I may be displeasing God?

Not to mention the historically critical research I've been doing on the Bible at a scholarly level and there are a lot more discrepancies than you may think there are. Sure some things can be explained away, while other things are irreconcilable. Why would the word of God even lead to any bit of confusion if it is supposed to be the truth?

Why did it take so long for the canon to be finalized? What about everyone before?

Do you know how the canon came about?

Some people say the details don't matter and all you need to know is the gospel...

Some say the opposite...

 

[Danny1988]

You are right, experience is not validation of proof. Ironically, most Christians believe that they know the truth based on their experience.

I'm solely stating that I don't think I have all the answers, and that my experience with Christianity has confused me and I am not convinced that it (Christianity) is the bearer of truth due to all of the confusion and disagreements within the circles of faith.

For some reason people automatically assume they know the truth, (I know I did) and if we are all honest, it's false. No one knows anything. As long as the Bible continues to be interpreted, there will be disagreement. You can't base a structure for living off something so inconsistent and broad.

Let God be true and every man a liar. God will reveal the truth to you if you ask Him sincerely. Put Jesus to the test before you write Him off, I was ready to give up at a time when everything was going wrong I was back slid-den for years. I professed faith then I left the Church for the same reason you did. But God drew me back and I repented and He gave me a brand new heart and life.

Knock and it shall be opened, ask and you shall receive.

 

[Danny1988]

The thing is that I've repented and recommitted my life to Jesus more than once. I've really tried, like really hard. Some might say I'm still saved, who knows, everyone will tell you what they believe.

I know the Bible does carry a lot of truths, and a lot of its teachings are useful for life.

I still live and will continue to live by some of the values within the text, but I realized that reaching God, according to the way we think Christianity works was and is something similar to washing a car, or making a bed...

My point is that not only do I don't feel certain as to what is truth, but also why would a relationship with the creator be of so high maintenance and why am I constantly feeling guilt that I may be displeasing God?

Not to mention the historically critical research I've been doing on the Bible at a scholarly level and there are a lot more discrepancies than you may think there are. Sure some things can be explained away, while other things are irreconcilable. Why would the word of God even lead to any bit of confusion if it is supposed to be the truth?

Why did it take so long for the canon to be finalized? What about everyone before?

Do you know how the canon came about?

Some people say the details don't matter and all you need to know is the gospel...

Some say the opposite...

I've heard men who completed Bible seminary who came out not knowing the Word of God the right way.

Only the Holy Spirit can reveal the true context and meaning to a humble believer. The Bible makes no sense to those who are perishing, God ordained to be that way. the Bible even say that the word of God is foolishness to those whoa perishing.

Faith in God is the greatest gift a person can ever receive, it's worth more than all the gold in the world and it's freely given to those who believe in the finished work of Christ.

 

[Seedz]

Let God be true and every man a liar. God will reveal the truth to you if you ask Him sincerely. Put Jesus to the test before you write Him off, I was ready to give up at a time when everything was going wrong I was back slid-den for years. I professed faith then I left the Church for the same reason you did. But God drew me back and I repented and He gave me a brand new heart and life.

Knock and it shall be opened, ask and you shall receive.

What if I told you that I did pray, and really tried to hold on?

What if I told you that I really tried to resist anything that caused me to question my faith?

What if I told you that ironically, the very same bible is what ultimately opened a huge gap in my understanding and has left me utterly exposed in a way that I don't think I can be the same? Meaning, I can't have the same faith because I'd be insulting my own intellect and disregarding all of the internal screams that tell me that God is much more than a book compiled by men?

If The God of the bible is exactly as the bible says he is, then he might understand why I feel the way I do since he gave me this brain and mind. Then again, he might send me to "hell", and again, it depends on who you ask.

 

[Seedz]

I've heard men who completed Bible seminary who came out not knowing the Word of God the right way.

Only the Holy Spirit can reveal the true context and meaning to a humble believer. The Bible makes no sense to those who are perishing, God ordained to be that way. the Bible even say that the word of God is foolishness to those whoa perishing.

Faith in God is the greatest gift a person can ever receive, it's worth more than all the gold in the world and it's freely given to those who believe in the finished work of Christ.

What exactly do you think perishing means? How can we know we are perishing?

You say we need the holy spirit to understand the word, ok - how do I receive it? Is it upon salvation like some will point you to believe like it says in acts? (2:38)

If you do receive him do you keep it, or can it go away?

Was I even ever saved?

Do you see where I am going with this? We all take assumptions of what we think the word says and we don't question any of it without realizing that it really isn't simple at all.

You are now saying that Faith is a Gift of God, while others say that faith is a gift to God....

It just never ends..

If I wanted to throw myself into a little bubble and cover my ears and hum, I may be able to stick to whatever I think I know, but that is kind of silly isn't it?

 

[calibob]

A lot of people say that vatican infiltrate almost every country in the world, we have to do a lot of reading, these are same link

http://www.sinhalanet.net/three-cor...city-of-london-washington-dc-and-vatican-city

https://mainerepublicemailalert.com...s-governments-global-companies-your-mortgage/


i realiize the connections between the Vatican>Freemasons>World Monitary systems. If they can destroy the U.S economic system and crash the federal reserve system. That between them and the U.S. Petroleium intrests. they can rule 1/4->1/3rd of the world. Right now they are playing our congressmen like marionettes. Also they may have the U.K. in their pockets as well. It's way more than the Vatican alone.

Of course the Progressives that sounded the alarm about influence pedaling in D.C. are ridiculed, demonized and called commies.

 

[Seedz]

That's exactly what my brother says to me, he's still a Catholic. I just answered him by saying we can not get into the mind of God, because we are fallen sinners with a very small finite capacity to understand an unlimited infinite God.

We will not know some things during this life, but I believe God will reveal everything to us at the appointed time when we receive our glorified bodies and minds. So I don't think we should jump to conclusions, rather we should obey and trust Him in all things.

- We are sinners
- We cannot understand God because of our sinful and futile mind
- We are nowhere close to Gods intellect therefore we can't understand him
- We cannot leave our sinful bodies while we are alive
- We cannot escape sin, merely we are atoned for it
- We claim to know and understand God through his word

Something seems odd about these statements....

 

[calibob]

expand the above please

 

[Seedz]

expand the above please

Are you talking to me?