Christ is God
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Bible did not fall from heaven and you are not the first man who found it on the road.
Bible was written by apostles, apostles were basing churches in many cities and towns, they personally put bishops in those churches, they had correspondence with these churches, they had disciples like Ignatios and Polycarp etc etc.
You cannot separate Bible and the first church. Its interconnected. You cannot ignore everything first church based by apostles believed and create your own Christianity from scratch. Its not how it works.
I showed you that Father and Son are different persons. Put it together with verses saying that God is one. And you have different persons in one God. Its not a nuclear physics.
Bible was written by apostles, apostles were basing churches in many cities and towns, they personally put bishops in those churches, they had correspondence with these churches, they had disciples like Ignatios and Polycarp etc etc.
You cannot separate Bible and the first church. Its interconnected. You cannot ignore everything first church based by apostles believed and create your own Christianity from scratch. Its not how it works.
I showed you that Father and Son are different persons. Put it together with verses saying that God is one. And you have different persons in one God. Its not a nuclear physics.
you and I have the Holy Spirit living us, but we still control what we say, do, and everything about us.
Yeshua however in chapter 14, makes it clear He is doing NOTHING. that He is being controlled. this is COMPLETELY OPPOSITE of how we are having the Holy Spirit in us.
this is clear that Yeshua is basically a puppet doing as told, He IS NOT HIS OWN PERSON!!
it's like we discussed before when I stated God speaks and His WORD [Yeshua in the flesh] does what is spoken. it means, they are ONE and the SAME. God and His spoken WORD in the flesh!!
and to further my point, it's clear PAUL and the DISCIPLES also DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY.
EXAMPLE:
Paul baptized in Acts 19:5 IN THE NAME OF YESHUA, not in the unholy trinity.
sadly, you cannot see this because your revelation in God is not as deep as those who understand the ONENESS.
basically, you still are drinking milk rather than eating meat!!
the FACTS are the FACTS, and the Disciples and Paul demonstrate they are ONENESS!!
No you've not, but you have managed to show me how the Father and the son are two separate beings and then trying to fix that with your philosophy.
I have asked questions that you didn't even attempt to answer: At Jesus' baptism, how many beings were witnessed? was the Father a separate being from the son and was the son a separate being from the Holy spirit?
We know for sure that Jesus, as He stood there in the water being baptized was one being- now, tell us what you mean by the Father/Holy spirit/son = one being using Jesus' baptism.
I have asked questions that you didn't even attempt to answer: At Jesus' baptism, how many beings were witnessed? was the Father a separate being from the son and was the son a separate being from the Holy spirit?
We know for sure that Jesus, as He stood there in the water being baptized was one being- now, tell us what you mean by the Father/Holy spirit/son = one being using Jesus' baptism.
1. If you believe that you have been shown that Son and Father are even two different beings (not just persons), then your view that they are just aspects, authorities or modes is even more absurd and strange and should make you think.
2. Also, again, you throw away all the Christian context of the Bible, churches, first christians, apostles and their disciples, ancient christian creeds and say that you are the one who knows how to read the Bible (and your reading is in a sharp contrast to the first Church). Again, this means nothing to you, strangely.
I am not sure if I understand your question. I expressed myself clearly that I accept and believe the orthodox original christian faith in Trinity - one being, three persons. So, of course, it applies also to baptism - one being (God), three persons (Son in body, Father as a voice and the Holy Spirit symbolized by a dove). These three persons are coexisting, so there is no problem when acting at once.
2. Also, again, you throw away all the Christian context of the Bible, churches, first christians, apostles and their disciples, ancient christian creeds and say that you are the one who knows how to read the Bible (and your reading is in a sharp contrast to the first Church). Again, this means nothing to you, strangely.
I am not sure if I understand your question. I expressed myself clearly that I accept and believe the orthodox original christian faith in Trinity - one being, three persons. So, of course, it applies also to baptism - one being (God), three persons (Son in body, Father as a voice and the Holy Spirit symbolized by a dove). These three persons are coexisting, so there is no problem when acting at once.
I know that you know that you are wrong but you cling to human philosophy in the name of orthodox original faith. The only orthodox original faith is what the scripture says and no where does the scripture say 'one being, three distinct persons' and the scripture also doesn't stress that the Father is not the son and the son is not the Holy spirit- this is your own original misunderstanding.
1. At baptism, Jesus was one full being on His own- if you dispute this, let me know.
2. If the Holy spirit is not Jesus and the Father is not Jesus and the three are one being (according to you), then the Father and the Holy spirits are not beings according to you otherwise we have three beings.
So the conclusion we have according to your so called orthodox original belief is that the Holy spirit and the Father are not beings- is that what you mean?
1. At baptism, Jesus was one full being on His own- if you dispute this, let me know.
2. If the Holy spirit is not Jesus and the Father is not Jesus and the three are one being (according to you), then the Father and the Holy spirits are not beings according to you otherwise we have three beings.
So the conclusion we have according to your so called orthodox original belief is that the Holy spirit and the Father are not beings- is that what you mean?
Again, its not "Bible vs Church". Bible and church are interconnected. You are trying to postulate a situation "God's Word vs human philosophy" but this is very late and very modern concept of today. It does not work for the first chuch. First church cannot be separated from the Bible, because the Bible was written to the first church and as a reaction to questions from churches.
Also, the same authors who wrote the Bible were the same people who were basing these churches, travellling to them, preaching to them personally and explaning their writings to them.
(by Bible I meant primarily the NT)
There is no "vs". It must comply.
It cannot be my own original "misunderstanding", when its the faith of the first church from the beginning. This is your try to isolate and disconnect me from history, church, orthodoxy and creeds and it will not work, either. Actually, you are the one who is "original" (I know you did not invent it, but historically) and isolated from the church in this basic area.
Son is standing by the river, Father is talking from heavens, the Holy spirit was symbolically descending upon the Son.
We have either a) three beings of b) three persons who can act on their own.
None of us believe in A). I believe in B), you believe in absurd and impossible C).
----
"And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." J 17:5
What is this verse about, when you apply your belief?
Also, the same authors who wrote the Bible were the same people who were basing these churches, travellling to them, preaching to them personally and explaning their writings to them.
(by Bible I meant primarily the NT)
There is no "vs". It must comply.
It cannot be my own original "misunderstanding", when its the faith of the first church from the beginning. This is your try to isolate and disconnect me from history, church, orthodoxy and creeds and it will not work, either. Actually, you are the one who is "original" (I know you did not invent it, but historically) and isolated from the church in this basic area.
Son is standing by the river, Father is talking from heavens, the Holy spirit was symbolically descending upon the Son.
We have either a) three beings of b) three persons who can act on their own.
None of us believe in A). I believe in B), you believe in absurd and impossible C).
----
"And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." J 17:5
What is this verse about, when you apply your belief?
Yes, jesus Christ born of Marry is one being composed of one person of the Trinity and human flesh. I am not sure what you think I am avoiding.
1. "When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
Who is speaking to whom, here? What is it about when you apply your belief?
2. "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." J 17:5
What is this verse about, when you apply your belief?
3. Do you realize that this is written by Luke who travelled to churches around the world with Paul and you are ignoring what these churches believed about the text Luke wrote?
1. "When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
Who is speaking to whom, here? What is it about when you apply your belief?
2. "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." J 17:5
What is this verse about, when you apply your belief?
3. Do you realize that this is written by Luke who travelled to churches around the world with Paul and you are ignoring what these churches believed about the text Luke wrote?
I have answered and i will answer again but i feel sorry for you and many others who seeing can't perceive and hold on to a position that puts God down.
John 1:32Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.
That was not a literal speech from one to another, it is an understanding in the mind/spirit. An understanding within the authorities of God. Jesus doesn't need to be literally told He is loved because He already knows that (He says no one understands the Father except Him, He has explained Him Jhn 1:18), but it was animated (made almost physical) for your sake and me because we would eventually pick up the position of the son and when we finally do, we would understand that the Father (Jesus) loves us. In this case, it was animated for the sake of John as he himself said in the above verse.John was actually in the spirit- no one else heard that.
John was the one to identify and proclaim the appearance of the messiah and apart from Jesus, it is only John (Arguably) and no one else saw the dove and heard the voice.
Otherwise, the Father is the Holy spirit and are in the son.
How does the Father get gloried? by the son accomplishing His will on earth which Jesus did. Jesus was praying not for Himself but for every believer because we are the sons and we glorify the Father and the Father has loved us before the foundations of the world.
It is the same thing here:
Jer 31:3 The LORD appeared to him from afar: “I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have drawn you with loving devotion. 4Again I will build you, and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel.
This is the same thing Jesus said here:
John 17:
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
Matters God are everlasting because God is everlasting. Again:
Psalms 103:17 But from everlasting to everlasting the loving devotion of the LORD extends to those who fear Him, and His righteousness to their children’s children—
So, we have given God glory not just now but before He founded the world because we fulfill His will which is everlasting.
Luke and Paul and all those people never thought or said three persons in one being, they knew better.
John 1:32Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.
That was not a literal speech from one to another, it is an understanding in the mind/spirit. An understanding within the authorities of God. Jesus doesn't need to be literally told He is loved because He already knows that (He says no one understands the Father except Him, He has explained Him Jhn 1:18), but it was animated (made almost physical) for your sake and me because we would eventually pick up the position of the son and when we finally do, we would understand that the Father (Jesus) loves us. In this case, it was animated for the sake of John as he himself said in the above verse.John was actually in the spirit- no one else heard that.
John was the one to identify and proclaim the appearance of the messiah and apart from Jesus, it is only John (Arguably) and no one else saw the dove and heard the voice.
Otherwise, the Father is the Holy spirit and are in the son.
How does the Father get gloried? by the son accomplishing His will on earth which Jesus did. Jesus was praying not for Himself but for every believer because we are the sons and we glorify the Father and the Father has loved us before the foundations of the world.
It is the same thing here:
Jer 31:3 The LORD appeared to him from afar: “I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have drawn you with loving devotion. 4Again I will build you, and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel.
This is the same thing Jesus said here:
John 17:
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
Matters God are everlasting because God is everlasting. Again:
Psalms 103:17 But from everlasting to everlasting the loving devotion of the LORD extends to those who fear Him, and His righteousness to their children’s children—
So, we have given God glory not just now but before He founded the world because we fulfill His will which is everlasting.
Luke and Paul and all those people never thought or said three persons in one being, they knew better.
You mentioned Eusebius, he quotes 29 times in his writings Matthew 28:19 and most often in Eusebius the quote has this form: "Πορευθέντες μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου" - Go and teach all the nations in My Name (PG t. 20, c. 221, c. 1425, PG t. 22, c. 233, c. 240, c. 241, c. 692 and so on). But if you pay attention, this modified phrase does not say anything about baptism! It does not say about "baptism in the name of Jesus".
Matthew 28:19 also quotes by Aphrahat : ܕܦܘܩܘ ܬܠܡܕܘ ܠܟܠܗܘܢ ܥܡ̈ܡܐܼ܂ ܘܢܗܝܡܢܘܢ ܒܝ - Go, teach all the nations and they will believe in Me. As with the quotations in Eusebius, there is also nothing to say about baptism in the name of Jesus.
It must be said that Eusebius in his works 5 times quotes Matthew 28:19 in a primal manner (cites baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).
In the early Christian literature with Judeo-Christian origin the theme of three holy names is also developed. This Didache, mentioned by Trofimus, is also the Odes of Solomon, which refers to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. For example Ode 23:22: And the name of the Father was upon it; and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, to rule for ever and ever. Hallelujah.
It is appropriate to mention about Pseudo-Clementine literature, that goes back to the followers of the Ebionites (not RCC!). In Homilies repeatedly mentioned about baptism "with a thrice blessed invocation" (τρισμακαρία ἐπονομασία, see for example Hom. 13:4). These sources are clearly not of Roman Catholic origin, it is Judeo-Christian literature (the same applies to the Didache), and it was here that such a baptismal formulation flourished.
Here it must be said that in primitive Christianity it seems from the very beginning there was not a single baptismal formulation. In the communities of the followers of Paul, they practiced baptizing in the Name of Jesus, in the Judeo-Christian communities of Syria (where, incidentally, were arose the Gospel of Matthew, Didache, the Odes of Solomon) was used the formula of baptism in the Name of the Father, Son and Spirit. And according to Acts 18:25 and 19:3 in some groups of primitive Christians of Ephesus there was using the practice of John's baptism(!). In parallel simultaneously there were three baptismal practices.
And "that is a FACT!!" wich we see in the Bible text.
Matthew 28:19 also quotes by Aphrahat : ܕܦܘܩܘ ܬܠܡܕܘ ܠܟܠܗܘܢ ܥܡ̈ܡܐܼ܂ ܘܢܗܝܡܢܘܢ ܒܝ - Go, teach all the nations and they will believe in Me. As with the quotations in Eusebius, there is also nothing to say about baptism in the name of Jesus.
It must be said that Eusebius in his works 5 times quotes Matthew 28:19 in a primal manner (cites baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).
In the early Christian literature with Judeo-Christian origin the theme of three holy names is also developed. This Didache, mentioned by Trofimus, is also the Odes of Solomon, which refers to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. For example Ode 23:22: And the name of the Father was upon it; and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, to rule for ever and ever. Hallelujah.
It is appropriate to mention about Pseudo-Clementine literature, that goes back to the followers of the Ebionites (not RCC!). In Homilies repeatedly mentioned about baptism "with a thrice blessed invocation" (τρισμακαρία ἐπονομασία, see for example Hom. 13:4). These sources are clearly not of Roman Catholic origin, it is Judeo-Christian literature (the same applies to the Didache), and it was here that such a baptismal formulation flourished.
Here it must be said that in primitive Christianity it seems from the very beginning there was not a single baptismal formulation. In the communities of the followers of Paul, they practiced baptizing in the Name of Jesus, in the Judeo-Christian communities of Syria (where, incidentally, were arose the Gospel of Matthew, Didache, the Odes of Solomon) was used the formula of baptism in the Name of the Father, Son and Spirit. And according to Acts 18:25 and 19:3 in some groups of primitive Christians of Ephesus there was using the practice of John's baptism(!). In parallel simultaneously there were three baptismal practices.
And "that is a FACT!!" wich we see in the Bible text.
i think it is the coming down that is 'like a dove' not the Spirit that is 'like a dove' -- not as though the Spirit looked dove-shaped, but that its appearance as it passed through the air towards Him was like the way a dove flies. small difference, maybe important in a special context, tho not really here. 
anyway interesting to me here, Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
the Spirit is the Spirit of God -- who can possibly have the power and authority to give the Spirit of God except God?
therefore Christ is God
((in keeping with my purpose for this thread -- i don't mind that there is interesting discussion of trinity in here, that's great, talking about the nature of God. but main goal for me with this thread, is to show from scripture the divinity of Jesus - because many come saying He is not quite divine, and i wanted one place i can point to that collects evidence from all over the Bible that HE IS -- and i want to praise Him in everything i put here))
anyway interesting to me here, Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
the Spirit is the Spirit of God -- who can possibly have the power and authority to give the Spirit of God except God?
therefore Christ is God
((in keeping with my purpose for this thread -- i don't mind that there is interesting discussion of trinity in here, that's great, talking about the nature of God. but main goal for me with this thread, is to show from scripture the divinity of Jesus - because many come saying He is not quite divine, and i wanted one place i can point to that collects evidence from all over the Bible that HE IS
-- and i want to praise Him in everything i put here))-
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