Is Messiah,(The Anointed One) the Father?

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HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#141
Sep 4, 2012
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#141
trofimus said:
I think we are part of a body and therefore we are not to invent wheel again and again. Its not just you and the Bible. If every church everywhere in everytime accepted Trinity, then why you do not...
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It's not that I don't accept "trinity", but that I don't accept the way it's explained. There's no question that there are 3 distinct characteristics to GOD, and also that he is one, and possibly one being.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#142
Aug 17, 2015
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#142
Noose said:
And that's why it is a mystery but who are you to tell God what He can or can not do?

1 Tim 3:16 By common confession,the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels,was proclaimed among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, was taken up in glory.
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When your theology is not rational, then you immediately go to "it is a mystery", but when I say that Trinity is a mystery, you say "no no no, its not logical".
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#143
Aug 17, 2015
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#143
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
It's not that I don't accept "trinity", but that I don't accept the way it's explained. There's no question that there are 3 distinct characteristics to GOD, and also that he is one, and possibly one being.
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Do these "characteristics" have their own will, conciousness, self-awareness?
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#144
Apr 18, 2016
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#144
trofimus said:
When your theology is not rational, then you immediately go to "it is a mystery", but when I say that Trinity is a mystery, you say "no no no, its not logical".
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Paul's theology was not rational, the reason he said:

1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Pick it up with Paul, i've just quoted him but if you want, you can also explain to me how in this verse trinity is being implied otherwise just saying everything is a mystery even things that don't exist is not going to help you.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#145
Aug 17, 2015
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#145
Noose said:
Paul's theology was not rational, the reason he said:

1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Pick it up with Paul, i've just quoted him but if you want, you can also explain to me how in this verse trinity is being implied otherwise just saying everything is a mystery even things that don't exist is not going to help you.
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God the Son (Logos) became flesh. (J 1:1). Bible cannot contradict itself, its still about the same event, no matter if written by John or Paul.

Logos is a perfect representation of Father.

Also, the English word "manifest" is not what you think it is in your theology, in Greek it just means to "appear". God appeared in body.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#146
Apr 18, 2016
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#146
trofimus said:
God the Son (Logos)
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God the son, God the Father, God the Holy spirit are three Gods- something that the bible has expressly refuted. No place in the bible you'll get the word 'God the son'
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#147
Sep 4, 2012
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#147
trofimus said:
Do these "characteristics" have their own will, conciousness, self-awareness?
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I think the holy spirit is intelligence/awareness/consciusness. I do not think it has it's own will, but actually is the will of GOD.

Both Jesus and the father have their own wills, yet in my own being my flesh has a will and my spirit has a will; they are not the same. They also have their own awarenesses, yet they are not the same.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#148
Sep 4, 2012
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#148
Noose said:
God the son, God the Father, God the Holy spirit are three Gods- something that the bible has expressly refuted. No place in the bible you'll get the word 'God the son'
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Saying GOD the son is like saying man the son. Nonsensical. Even GOD the father is wrong; it is GOD, the father.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#149
Aug 17, 2015
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#149
Noose said:
God the son, God the Father, God the Holy spirit are three Gods- something that the bible has expressly refuted. No place in the bible you'll get the word 'God the son'
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Nowhere in the bible you will get the word "mode". So what.

In the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was with the God (Father) and the Logos was God. The Logos became flesh.

Not Father, but the Logos became flesh.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#150
Aug 17, 2015
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#150
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Saying GOD the son is like saying man the son. Nonsensical. Even GOD the father is wrong; it is GOD, the father.
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When there are father and son, is it so nonsensical for a dog to say "man the son and man the father"? No.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#151
Aug 17, 2015
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#151
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
I think the holy spirit is intelligence/awareness/consciusness. I do not think it has it's own will, but actually is the will of GOD.

Both Jesus and the father have their own wills, yet in my own being my flesh has a will and my spirit has a will; they are not the same. They also have their own awarenesses, yet they are not the same.
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So why exactly do you not do the next logical step and do not call Son and Father persons?

Son has his own will, Father has his on will. Son is self-aware, Father is self-aware.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#152
Sep 4, 2012
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#152
trofimus said:
When there are father and son, is it so nonsensical for a dog to say "man the son and man the father"? No.
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Well in that case man, the son, and man, the father, would be accurate. However, there is nowhere in scripture that says GOD, the son. Quite the opposite actually. It is always GOD, the father, (or some alternative) and the the lord Jesus Christ (or some alternative).
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#153
Aug 17, 2015
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#153
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Well in that case man, the son, and man, the father, would be accurate. However, there is nowhere in scripture that says GOD, the son. Quite the opposite actually. It is always GOD, the father, (or some alternative) and the the lord Jesus Christ (or some alternative).
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The Son of God is God. So I can say God the Son.

The fact that its not used so in the Bible does not make it "nonsensical". It has a sense.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#154
Sep 4, 2012
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#154
trofimus said:
So why exactly do you not do the next logical step and do not call Son and Father persons?

Son has his own will, Father has his on will. Son is self-aware, Father is self-aware.
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I guess because I think the father transcends the concept of "person". He uses "person" to manifest himself to his creation.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#156
Sep 4, 2012
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#156
trofimus said:
The Son of God is God. So I can say God the Son.

The fact that its not used so in the Bible does not make it "nonsensical".
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But the son of GOD is not the one and only true GOD. So I refrain from using that term.

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God [i.e., the father], and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3​
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And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding in order that we may know the one who is true [i.e., the father], and we are in the one who is true in his Son Jesus Christ. This one [i.e., the father] is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:20​
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#157
Aug 17, 2015
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#157
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
But the son of GOD is not the one and only true GOD. So I refrain from using that term.

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:3​
​
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, in order that we may know the one who is true [i.e., the father], and we are in the one who is true in his Son Jesus Christ. This one is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:20​
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Well, but the Son of God is not a false God, right? So, again, it makes sense to call Him God the Son. He is not the Father, yes.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#158
Aug 4, 2016
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#158
rlm68 said:
Well in the Book of Jude along with quotes by Christ, they include references to the Book of Enoch. David in Samuel and Joshua in His Book quote scripture from the Book of Jasher.

And knowing the RCC's view on the trinity, it makes perfect sense to why they denied the Gospel of Thomas. because within the Gospel of Thomas, we have this gem from Christ:
***30. Jesus said, "Where there are three deities, they are divine. Where there are two or one, I am with that one." ***
Which gives credence to Matthew 28:19 being changed from in Name of Christ considering the verse I just posted is clear that Jesus did not follow the trinity concept.

And that verse also goes along with how the Messianic Jews view it. And we know who the Messianic Jews are, the last day Jews who finally accept Christ as their Messiah!!


And there are other examples I could list that bring the current 66 Books into question.

But one thing is for certain, if we had all of the Books, we would definitely have a clearer picture concerning several issues!!
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Well I'm glad you mentioned the book of Jude rlm68. Did you read what Jude vs3 states? "Beloved while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith, (now watch this rlm68) WHICH WAS ONCE FOR ALL DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS."

Once for all delivered to the saints which means there is no need for other books. What your doing is actually accusing God of making a mistake because He left out certain books of the Bible. And just because Jude references the Book of Enoch does not make it scripture. So again I will ask you, give me some examples of what you mean by getting a clear picture? What are you not clear about? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#159
Apr 18, 2016
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#159
trofimus said:
Nowhere in the bible you will get the word "mode". So what.
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Correct, now go back to my posts and find a post with the word mode. I'm not a modalist or a oneness Pentecostal or anything, i'm just me.

In the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was with the God (Father) and the Logos was God. The Logos became flesh.
Not Father, but the Logos became flesh.
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That's your own false interpretation otherwise the bible is clear on this, God manifested in flesh, if you want to know how, read malachi 3:1
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#160
Aug 17, 2015
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#160
trofimus said:
In the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was with the God (Father) and the Logos was God. The Logos became flesh.
Not Father, but the Logos became flesh.
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Noose said:
That's your own false interpretation otherwise the bible is clear on this, God manifested in flesh, if you want to know how, read malachi 3:1
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Lol. This is the "falsely" intepreted text itself:

"In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
The Logos became flesh and made his dwelling among us."
J 1:1, 14
 
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