OSAS= House Built on Sand
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U
For the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord….For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 11:29
Paul, an intellect knowing the law and the plight of the Jews having had direct contact with Jesus, was he of some kind of confused mind? I doubt it.
Reading that the individual (which is not the subject in verse 19) can loose their salvation in every other verse, is reading scripture with the spirit of condemnation.
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The early elders in the 300's created the Apostles Creed. 390 is the earliest know document of it. There were many differences of opinion about issues and heresies being pushed. It has a 2 fold message. It defines the core beliefs a Christian must believe and anything going against it is heresy. Issues not covered were to be agree to disagree. This today is seen by the many gospel preaching sub denominations of today.
Keep in mind that the 7 major protestant denominations have been taken over by secular ministers who just want access to the money. Gary North documented the Presbyterian USA being taken over in 1932 by secular ministers in the book "Crossed Fingers". It was highlighted when a minister was not defrocked when he stated Jesus was just a good man. The same thing happened to all of the 7 sisters leaving only sub denominations preaching the gospel.
Keep in mind that the 7 major protestant denominations have been taken over by secular ministers who just want access to the money. Gary North documented the Presbyterian USA being taken over in 1932 by secular ministers in the book "Crossed Fingers". It was highlighted when a minister was not defrocked when he stated Jesus was just a good man. The same thing happened to all of the 7 sisters leaving only sub denominations preaching the gospel.
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Simply...the sand is the works of man. Sand is shifting. I live in Florida where the sinkholes swallow these "works".
The rock stands solid all through time.
The truth of once saved always saved is not about anything of man but all the plan of God. So who do we put our trust in? That settles the matter.
The rock stands solid all through time.
The truth of once saved always saved is not about anything of man but all the plan of God. So who do we put our trust in? That settles the matter.
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"In Christ"
In:
G1722
ἐν
en
en
A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), that is, a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537); “in”, at, (up-) on, by, etc.: - about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-) by (+ all means), for (. . . sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-) in (-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of, (up-) on, [open-] ly, X outwardly, one, X quickly, X shortly, [speedi-] ly, X that, X there (-in, -on), through (-out), (un-) to(-ward), under, when, where (-with), while, with (-in). Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) prep.
Total KJV occurrences: 2720
In:
G1722
ἐν
en
en
A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), that is, a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537); “in”, at, (up-) on, by, etc.: - about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-) by (+ all means), for (. . . sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-) in (-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of, (up-) on, [open-] ly, X outwardly, one, X quickly, X shortly, [speedi-] ly, X that, X there (-in, -on), through (-out), (un-) to(-ward), under, when, where (-with), while, with (-in). Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) prep.
Total KJV occurrences: 2720
R
Who told you that believing and trusting in order to be saved is an evil work of self righteousness that can't justify/save???? Show me this verse that says I'm damned if I believe and trust in God. Does God do your trusting for you?
It's only through God's gift of faith, and his encouragement, that any of us can choose to trust and believe. That's why it's not a boast of self righteousness, even though WE do it. Besides, no where in scripture does it say that us doing the trusting and believing is us trying to earn our own salvation by our own merit. That's a man made invention, born of the misguided notion that since salvation is not by the works then it is by nothing at all. That is a lie. Justification/salvation is through believing. But you and countless others have decided believing is you trying to earn your own salvation simply because it's something you do. The works of the works gospel are not defined by that criteria.
I have NEVER said we are not secure in Him. We are absolutely secure in Him. That's why you need to STAY IN HIM. He is the refuge from the coming Judgment. You have to stay in Him to continue to be protected for the coming Day of Judgment. Only those who stay in the house are protected from the destroying angel (Exodus 12:22).
That's right. All it takes is one application of Jesus' blood, by faith, to be justified/saved. One time for all time doesn't mean you can't ever lose it. It means you do not have to get another sacrifice every time you sin. The one you have lasts forever and stays continually ministering before the Father in Heaven on your behalf (Hebrews 7:25). Stop believing in that sacrifice and it no longer ministers on your behalf. The continuing sacrifice on the altar in heaven is only for believers, not unbelievers and ex-believers.
That's because the Bible doesn't make the distinction between living for God and being saved like the church does. Ultimately, there is no such thing as a person with dead faith who is saved in the Bible. That is a non-Biblical invention of the last days church.
You need to stay in what is most certainly and definitely accomplished. You can't continue to have the never-ending and faultless benefit of the finished work of Christ's sacrifice if you abandon it in unbelief. Don't throw away your confidence in that which is most certainly worthy of your confidence!
It's only through God's gift of faith, and his encouragement, that any of us can choose to trust and believe. That's why it's not a boast of self righteousness, even though WE do it. Besides, no where in scripture does it say that us doing the trusting and believing is us trying to earn our own salvation by our own merit. That's a man made invention, born of the misguided notion that since salvation is not by the works then it is by nothing at all. That is a lie. Justification/salvation is through believing. But you and countless others have decided believing is you trying to earn your own salvation simply because it's something you do. The works of the works gospel are not defined by that criteria.
I have NEVER said we are not secure in Him. We are absolutely secure in Him. That's why you need to STAY IN HIM. He is the refuge from the coming Judgment. You have to stay in Him to continue to be protected for the coming Day of Judgment. Only those who stay in the house are protected from the destroying angel (Exodus 12:22).
That's right. All it takes is one application of Jesus' blood, by faith, to be justified/saved. One time for all time doesn't mean you can't ever lose it. It means you do not have to get another sacrifice every time you sin. The one you have lasts forever and stays continually ministering before the Father in Heaven on your behalf (Hebrews 7:25). Stop believing in that sacrifice and it no longer ministers on your behalf. The continuing sacrifice on the altar in heaven is only for believers, not unbelievers and ex-believers.
That's because the Bible doesn't make the distinction between living for God and being saved like the church does. Ultimately, there is no such thing as a person with dead faith who is saved in the Bible. That is a non-Biblical invention of the last days church.
You need to stay in what is most certainly and definitely accomplished. You can't continue to have the never-ending and faultless benefit of the finished work of Christ's sacrifice if you abandon it in unbelief. Don't throw away your confidence in that which is most certainly worthy of your confidence!
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Perhaps Ralph, you are taking a scripture out of context in your thoughts?
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Who's keeping power? Can man keep himself in what he never started to begin with? It's God who draws us to Himself, not the other way around.
Am going to watch a Netflix movie starring Redford, (2017) a scientist that found proof that there's life after death. Back later.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Who's keeping power? Can man keep himself in what he never started to begin with? It's God who draws us to Himself, not the other way around.
Am going to watch a Netflix movie starring Redford, (2017) a scientist that found proof that there's life after death. Back later.
R
You are contradicting yourself??? But carry on I need a break.
But carry on I need a break.
You are only capable of understanding 'security' as 'you are forever locked inside the building'. And that lack of open-mindedness keeps you from understanding that 'security' can also mean 'the building you are in is forever secure'. It's easy to see that the latter is what the Bible teaches, not the former.
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R
What works? Jesus is saying these people building on sand do NOT have works.
You can't see that because you are trained by 'once saved always saved' doctrine to automatically think that if having works to be safe on the rock is what Jesus is talking about then that would be a works gospel, so you change the passage to suit your predetermined doctrine and ignore what he's actually saying.
Instead, you should be asking yourself how it is that works (doing the will of God) is the foundation upon which a 'building' (you) will survive the coming storm of Judgement without those works amounting to the works gospel condemned in scripture.
You can't see that because you are trained by 'once saved always saved' doctrine to automatically think that if having works to be safe on the rock is what Jesus is talking about then that would be a works gospel, so you change the passage to suit your predetermined doctrine and ignore what he's actually saying.
Instead, you should be asking yourself how it is that works (doing the will of God) is the foundation upon which a 'building' (you) will survive the coming storm of Judgement without those works amounting to the works gospel condemned in scripture.
R
It's God's keeping power. You access that power through your believing/trusting. You do your trusting/believing through the God given gift and ability to know the unseen gospel is true. Without that gift you would not do the believing/trusting that is required to access the power of God in salvation. You do the believing. God gives the faith--the knowing--through which you do your believing/trusting.
If you think that's a works gospel just post the chapter and verse that says my believing is me trying to earn my own salvation by works. I'll look it up. You just post the chapter and verse.
If you think that's a works gospel just post the chapter and verse that says my believing is me trying to earn my own salvation by works. I'll look it up. You just post the chapter and verse.
1 Corinthians 1:
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
vs 21 - who is it that establishes us in Christ?
Do we establish ourselves, or does God establish us?
I believe those of us who are advocating that our salvation is secure in Christ are of the firm belief that God is able to continue to hold us to Him.
We are not advocating that when we stray we are not to turn back to Christ.
We just rely on the fact that God tells us He establishes us, He confirms us unto the end and He is faithful where we are not (1 Cor 1:8-9), He keeps us from falling (Jude 1:26), if we become lost, He seeks us out, places us on his shoulders, and carries us back to the fold (Luke 15:8-9).
What I hear from some in this thread is that we maintain ourselves, we confirm ourselves unto the end, we keep ourselves from falling. Maybe that is not what is meant, but that is how it appears to me when I read some of the posts from those who insist that salvation may be lost.
Please correct me if I misunderstand your point.
Thank you.
P.S. And it if misspoke concerning those who believe God is able to keep us secure, please forgive me. Thanks.
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
vs 21 - who is it that establishes us in Christ?
Do we establish ourselves, or does God establish us?
I believe those of us who are advocating that our salvation is secure in Christ are of the firm belief that God is able to continue to hold us to Him.
We are not advocating that when we stray we are not to turn back to Christ.
We just rely on the fact that God tells us He establishes us, He confirms us unto the end and He is faithful where we are not (1 Cor 1:8-9), He keeps us from falling (Jude 1:26), if we become lost, He seeks us out, places us on his shoulders, and carries us back to the fold (Luke 15:8-9).
What I hear from some in this thread is that we maintain ourselves, we confirm ourselves unto the end, we keep ourselves from falling. Maybe that is not what is meant, but that is how it appears to me when I read some of the posts from those who insist that salvation may be lost.
Please correct me if I misunderstand your point.
Thank you.
P.S. And it if misspoke concerning those who believe God is able to keep us secure, please forgive me. Thanks.
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