Rapture

[garee]

Not quite sure what you are saying above. However, the key to understanding the chronological order of Revelation, is found in Rev.1:19, when John is told to write:

What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 to 1:19

What is now = Represented by the letters to the churches, which prophetically represent the entire church period

What must take place later = Everything that takes place after the "what is now," i.e. after the church period.

Currently, we are still in the "what is now" part of what John was told to write. Once the church has been completed, the "what is now" portion will be fulfilled and the "what must take place later" will ensue, which is synonymous with Rev.4:1-2 when John is caught up to heaven where he is told "I will show you what must take place after this." Rev.4:1-2 is a prophetic allusion to the church being caught up and which is why we no longer see the word "church" appear after this event. God doesn't do coincidences and so there is a reason for the disappearance of the word "church" from chapter 4 onward.

Revelation 1:1 sets up the standard for the kind of inspiration as signified ("to make signs, show by signs,… ) for the whole book. the metaphoric language of parable

Not only did he send it but also signified it. without parables Christ spoke not . reveling the sp ritual understanding to the believer hiding it from natural man.( 666) who must walk by sight.


1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation presents a cyclical pattern of recapitulation like that of Genesis 1 chapter 1, and Genesis 1 chapter 2 .Same event given in two ways or with the gospels rather than a chronological order of end time events.

The Amil (No literal thousand years) position works the best.

 

[Noose]

The mark is not a literal mark and the buying and selling has to to with spiritual truth ,hid in parables

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding

I know it's not a literal mark, it can't be a literal mark.

We are not to sell spiritual truth as did Esua who became a resteless wanderer not entering the sabbath rest in respect to the work of God. He had the mark of Cain (666)

We walk by faith, not after the things seen, as those who walk by sight.Those who require a outward sign before they will beleive make the faith of Christ without effect.

I don't understand this issue of being restless. God also marks His servants on the forehead (Rev 7), does that mean it is the mark of a restful beast especially on the sabath?

 

[DudleyDorite]

I don't see any rapture in Rev 14, all i see is the grapes being harvested by the means of a SHARP SICKLE which means tribulation.

A sickle is an instrument of harvest. It has nothing to do with tribulation. And Revelation 14 has nothing to do with the harvesting of grapes. The clusters and grapes represents believers being harvested.

In chapter 14, "the son of man" sits on a white cloud.
Rev 14:14 "And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle."

The rapture and the resurrection is a time of reaping and harvest.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Mark 4:28-29 For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.
The gathering will take place in the the clouds of the sky (Mt. 24:30; 1 Thess. 4:17).

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Before the rapture Christ first raises the righteous dead. Here is the resurrection of the dead and the gathering of the living righteous. We know this event is said to precede the rapture of the living.

In Mathew 13 both the righteous and the wicked are harvested and that's the same situation in Revelation 14.
Revelation 14:14-16 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

In verse Revelation 14:14-16 there is a harvest. Both the resurrection of the righteous dead and the rapture are included in verses 14-16. In Mathew 13 the Lord tells us that the harvest is the end of the world and the angels do the gathering.

Mathew 13 is about the wheat and the tares and how they are allowed to grow together until the harvest where they are BOTH reaped. And coincidentally, the wheat and the tares are mentioned in Revelation 14. The wheat between verses 14-16. The tares between verses 17-20. Our Lord said in Mathew 13:36-42.

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

A close look at Mathew 13's wheat and tares and Revelation 14's two harvest reveals that they are almost identical.

So my conclusion is that Revelation 14:14-16 is the resurrection of both the dead in Christ and the living righteous, or the wheat.

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

And Revelation 14:17-20 is the resurrection of the wicked or the tares.

And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. *And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Notice too that the angel in Rev 14:18 is said to have power over fire. And this is also mentioned in Mathew 13:39-42.

Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Joel 3:13 13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, go down; For the winepress is full, The vats overflow -- For their wickedness is great."

The tribulation has a purpose. It's to purify the Church by bringing it to repentance, and to restore Israel. The rapture happens in Revelation 14 just before God's wrath is poured out so that Christians aren't the recipients of, and God is not guilty of, "friendly fire" like the plagues in chapter 15.

 

[DudleyDorite]

The mark is not a literal mark and the buying and selling has to to with spiritual truth ,hid in parables

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding

We are not to sell spiritual truth as did Esua who became a resteless wanderer not entering the sabbath rest in respect to the work of God. He had the mark of Cain (666)

We walk by faith, not after the things seen, as those who walk by sight.Those who require a outward sign before they will beleive make the faith of Christ without effect.

The word mark certainly indicates a literal mark. But why would you believe that. You think Abel brought the gospel to Cain, and that says a lot about you!

Vines....
Graven:

from charasso, "to engrave" (akin to charakter, "an impress," RV, marg., of Hbr 1:3), denotes "a mark" or "stamp,"

Strong's...

1. a stamp, an imprinted mark
   1. of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the badge of the followers of the Antichrist
   2. the mark branded upon horses
2. thing carved, sculpture, graven work
   1. of idolatrous images

 

[DudleyDorite]

God also marks his servants on the forehead (Rev 7:3), how does that work out?

The word 'mark' isn't mentioned in Rev. 7:3. But what does that matter to you or the others. You're going to believe what you want anyway regardless of what the scriptures say.

 

[Noose]

A sickle is an instrument of harvest. It has nothing to do with tribulation. And Revelation 14 has nothing to do with the harvesting of grapes. The clusters and grapes represents believers being harvested.

In chapter 14, "the son of man" sits on a white cloud.
Rev 14:14 "And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle."

The rapture and the resurrection is a time of reaping and harvest.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Mark 4:28-29 For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.
The gathering will take place in the the clouds of the sky (Mt. 24:30; 1 Thess. 4:17).

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Before the rapture Christ first raises the righteous dead. Here is the resurrection of the dead and the gathering of the living righteous. We know this event is said to precede the rapture of the living.

In Mathew 13 both the righteous and the wicked are harvested and that's the same situation in Revelation 14.
Revelation 14:14-16 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

In verse Revelation 14:14-16 there is a harvest. Both the resurrection of the righteous dead and the rapture are included in verses 14-16. In Mathew 13 the Lord tells us that the harvest is the end of the world and the angels do the gathering.

Mathew 13 is about the wheat and the tares and how they are allowed to grow together until the harvest where they are BOTH reaped. And coincidentally, the wheat and the tares are mentioned in Revelation 14. The wheat between verses 14-16. The tares between verses 17-20. Our Lord said in Mathew 13:36-42.

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

A close look at Mathew 13's wheat and tares and Revelation 14's two harvest reveals that they are almost identical.

So my conclusion is that Revelation 14:14-16 is the resurrection of both the dead in Christ and the living righteous, or the wheat.

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

And Revelation 14:17-20 is the resurrection of the wicked or the tares.

And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. *And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Notice too that the angel in Rev 14:18 is said to have power over fire. And this is also mentioned in Mathew 13:39-42.

Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Joel 3:13 13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, go down; For the winepress is full, The vats overflow -- For their wickedness is great."

The tribulation has a purpose. It's to purify the Church by bringing it to repentance, and to restore Israel. The rapture happens in Revelation 14 just before God's wrath is poured out so that Christians aren't the recipients of, and God is not guilty of, "friendly fire" like the plagues in chapter 15.

Of course you missed the point there, harvesting doesn't mean rapture but death and a sharp sickle should even make it more clear that the process of harvesting involves pain. The son of man (Jesus) harvests with a sharp sickle in the same way the other angel who has power over fire harvests the wicked (sharp sickle). If Jesus raptures the church as you think, also the wicked are raptured according to you because it is the same process of harvesting.
Rev 14 doesn't speak of resurrection either. The angels are told the crop on earth is ripe and ready for harvestion

 

[DudleyDorite]

God is never in the business of buying and selling merchandise, He is after your heart, not money.

I really have to wonder about people on this forum. Common sense skills of interpretation just doesn't exist here among too many. What does Revelation 13:11 have to do with God?

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

Two horns like a lamb means two sects similar to Christianity! The dragon represents SATAN!

 

[Noose]

The word 'mark' isn't mentioned in Rev. 7:3. But what does that matter to you or the others. You're going to believe what you want anyway regardless of what the scriptures say.

Rev 7:3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, until we shall have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."

How does this not mean 'marked on the forehead'?

 

[DudleyDorite]

Of course you missed the point there, harvesting doesn't mean rapture but death and a sharp sickle should even make it more clear that the process of harvesting involves pain. The son of man (Jesus) harvests with a sharp sickle in the same way the other angel who has power over fire harvests the wicked (sharp sickle). If Jesus raptures the church as you think, also the wicked are raptured according to you because it is the same process of harvesting.
Rev 14 doesn't speak of resurrection either. The angels are told the crop on earth is ripe and ready for harvestion

Did you read Mathew 13??? I think I'm among the wrong people on this forum. There just doesn't seem to be anyone here with common sense!

 

[Noose]

I really have to wonder about people on this forum. Common sense skills of interpretation just doesn't exist here among too many. What does Revelation 13:11 have to do with God?

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

Two horns like a lamb means two sects similar to Christianity! The dragon represents SATAN!

Is that verse from satan or God? Who is warning us of all these things, is it satan or God?
Now you know what God has to do with that verse.

 

[Noose]

Did you read Mathew 13??? I think I'm among the wrong people on this forum. There just doesn't seem to be anyone here with common sense!

Yes.
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

No rapture here. Harvest is for both bad and good.

 

[garee]

I still don't get it, i don't think i will.

666 the number of natural man a beast of the field having been formed of the dust. It is the mark of Cain as a restless wanderer not receiving the sabbath rest of God. but rather sent out to live a living of hell as punishment than only Christ can endure by which we do receive His rest . (And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.)

2 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.


13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.


14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.


15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.


.666 ….two thirds as a dividing line. The gospel hid

And he sent again a captain of the third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight.2 Kings 1:13

The gospel hid in the parable below

And after this it came to pass that David smote the Philistines, and subdued them: and David took Methegammah out of the hand of the Philistines.And he smote Moab, and measured them with a line, casting them down to the ground; even with two lines measured he to put to death, and with one full line to keep alive. And so the Moabites became David's servants, and brought gifts.2 Samuel 8:2

The gospel hid in the parable below

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.Zechariah 13:7-9

The gospel hid in the parable below

"One third you shall burn in the fire at the center of the city, when the days of the siege are completed Then you shall take one third and strike it with the sword all around the city, and one third you shall scatter to the wind; and I will unsheathe a sword behind them.Ezekiel 5:2

(I will unsheathe a sword behind ) Another way of saying I will be the rear guard.

666 or 2/3 the number of unconverted natural man as the mark of Cain. Again we walk or calculate what we hear coming from scripture by faith not by sight . We buy and sell spiritual truth. No famine for groceries but rather a famine for hearing the word of God .Again when he comes its not will he find groceries, but faith, or men walking by sight requiring a sign before they will believe (exercise faith)

Amos 8:11Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

 

[Noose]

666 the number of natural man a beast of the field having been formed of the dust. It is the mark of Cain as a restless wanderer not receiving the sabbath rest of God. but rather sent out to live a living of hell as punishment than only Christ can endure by which we do receive His rest . (And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.)

2 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.


13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.


14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.


15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.


.666 ….two thirds as a dividing line. The gospel hid

And he sent again a captain of the third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight.2 Kings 1:13

The gospel hid in the parable below

And after this it came to pass that David smote the Philistines, and subdued them: and David took Methegammah out of the hand of the Philistines.And he smote Moab, and measured them with a line, casting them down to the ground; even with two lines measured he to put to death, and with one full line to keep alive. And so the Moabites became David's servants, and brought gifts.2 Samuel 8:2

The gospel hid in the parable below

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.Zechariah 13:7-9

The gospel hid in the parable below

"One third you shall burn in the fire at the center of the city, when the days of the siege are completed Then you shall take one third and strike it with the sword all around the city, and one third you shall scatter to the wind; and I will unsheathe a sword behind them.Ezekiel 5:2

(I will unsheathe a sword behind ) Another way of saying I will be the rear guard.

666 or 2/3 the number of unconverted natural man as the mark of Cain. Again we walk or calculate what we hear coming from scripture by faith not by sight . We buy and sell spiritual truth. No famine for groceries but rather a famine for hearing the word of God .Again when he comes its not will he find groceries, but faith, or men walking by sight requiring a sign before they will believe (exercise faith)

Amos 8:11Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

666 is not 2/3 or 1/3 of anything. It is the number of the beast and those who can, will calculate the number of the beast.

Rev 13: 18Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six.

If you can calculate the number please do and show as what you get. I'm sure 1/3 or 2/3 are mentioned several times over the scriptures but we both know it's not what is being asked for in Rev 13.

 

[abcdef]

--

7, Would be the number for complete, perfection.

--

600, The number of the ultimate power behind evil, Satan.
_60, The number of the earthly presence of that power in the gentile nations that are given power over the holy people, Israel.
__6, The head of the Satanic powers centered in a person who is the leader of that gentile nation.
666



At the time of the writing of the Revelation, 96 ad approx., Caesar and the Roman Empire were ruling over the people of Israel after the destruction of 70 ad Jerusalem. The ancient Roman Empire ruled over Israel for the next 300 years or so. persecuting and enslaving Israel. (The RCC image after the empire fell.)

 

[Absolutely]

I don't understand something. Isn't Mathew 24 and Luke 21 a repeat of the same prophecy? TDW says that this isn't the rapture of believers but instead it's a rapture of Jews because he as well as the pre-trib camp says the word elect implies Jews.

Escape means to flee out of. It has nothing to do with a rapture. The harpazo is a snatching away by no action of our own. What Jesus is saying is to be awake and ready and pray that we are worthy to escape the things he mentions that are coming. It's also talking about the end of the tribulation period because Jesus is quoted as saying, "to stand before the Son of man." That doesn't happen until AFTER the tribulation.

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Pre-trib. One fabrication after another after another after another after another.

 

[Absolutely]

Revelation 14 is where the rapture takes place. It's during the last trump, the seventh trump.

Nope.
No dead are raised and the 144k are in heaven before the gathering in rev 14.
In fact rev 14 authenticates the pretrib rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

A sickle is an instrument of harvest. It has nothing to do with tribulation. And Revelation 14 has nothing to do with the harvesting of grapes. The clusters and grapes represents believers being harvested.

In chapter 14, "the son of man" sits on a white cloud.
Rev 14:14 "And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle."

The rapture and the resurrection is a time of reaping and harvest.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Mark 4:28-29 For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.
The gathering will take place in the the clouds of the sky (Mt. 24:30; 1 Thess. 4:17).

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Before the rapture Christ first raises the righteous dead. Here is the resurrection of the dead and the gathering of the living righteous. We know this event is said to precede the rapture of the living.

In Mathew 13 both the righteous and the wicked are harvested and that's the same situation in Revelation 14.
Revelation 14:14-16 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

In verse Revelation 14:14-16 there is a harvest. Both the resurrection of the righteous dead and the rapture are included in verses 14-16. In Mathew 13 the Lord tells us that the harvest is the end of the world and the angels do the gathering.

Mathew 13 is about the wheat and the tares and how they are allowed to grow together until the harvest where they are BOTH reaped. And coincidentally, the wheat and the tares are mentioned in Revelation 14. The wheat between verses 14-16. The tares between verses 17-20. Our Lord said in Mathew 13:36-42.

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

A close look at Mathew 13's wheat and tares and Revelation 14's two harvest reveals that they are almost identical.

So my conclusion is that Revelation 14:14-16 is the resurrection of both the dead in Christ and the living righteous, or the wheat.

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

And Revelation 14:17-20 is the resurrection of the wicked or the tares.

And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. *And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Notice too that the angel in Rev 14:18 is said to have power over fire. And this is also mentioned in Mathew 13:39-42.

Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Joel 3:13 13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, go down; For the winepress is full, The vats overflow -- For their wickedness is great."

The tribulation has a purpose. It's to purify the Church by bringing it to repentance, and to restore Israel. The rapture happens in Revelation 14 just before God's wrath is poured out so that Christians aren't the recipients of, and God is not guilty of, "friendly fire" like the plagues in chapter 15.

If you omit mat 25 and the pretrib verses then you can build your case.
Oh wait,that IS what you already do.
You work to discredit the pretrib rapture,not systematically build truth.
Incorporate mat 25,then the FACT that the AC kills ALL refusing the mark,then the marrige supper in heaven, plus the innumerable number already in heaven.
There is a rapture in rev 14. It is not the main harvest. It can not be.

 

[Absolutely]

Of course you missed the point there, harvesting doesn't mean rapture but death and a sharp sickle should even make it more clear that the process of harvesting involves pain. The son of man (Jesus) harvests with a sharp sickle in the same way the other angel who has power over fire harvests the wicked (sharp sickle). If Jesus raptures the church as you think, also the wicked are raptured according to you because it is the same process of harvesting.
Rev 14 doesn't speak of resurrection either. The angels are told the crop on earth is ripe and ready for harvestion

The key to rev 14 is 1) jews 2) firstfruits
The 144 k are firstfruits. First jews in the jewish harvest. But not first. Jesus with the patriarchs is firstfruits then Main harvest ,which is the pretrib rapture including the dead in christ. The millions martyred by AC are part of the main.

Take a look at the wedding supper parable. You see only one group harvested?

 

[Absolutely]

The word mark certainly indicates a literal mark. But why would you believe that. You think Abel brought the gospel to Cain, and that says a lot about you!

Vines....
Graven:

from charasso, "to engrave" (akin to charakter, "an impress," RV, marg., of Hbr 1:3), denotes "a mark" or "stamp,"

Strong's...

1. a stamp, an imprinted mark
   1. of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the badge of the followers of the Antichrist
   2. the mark branded upon horses
2. thing carved, sculpture, graven work
   1. of idolatrous images

Correct
Impossible to get it wrong.

 

[Absolutely]

There will be no pre/mid/post trib rapture and even rapture as being described here is not going to happen at all. There will be no such thing as Christ second coming either, for Christ has always been coming as the Holy spirit since the disciples time- the reason He told them they won't finish moving through all the towns in Jerusalem before He comes back.

Mass rapture is a lie, two or three people surviving a car crush is their rapture, it happens every day.
No one is leaving this earth but the kingdom of God will rule over this earth forever and ever. The earth itself will change but believers will still be here.

Well sir,that is made up. You LITERALLY made that up.
I will not address you in this thread. We are miles apart. Zero common ground