Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 16, 2018
137
87
28
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (Rom 10:4 KJV)
Is that what Jesus said of himself?

“Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19).

"Teleos" is what there is translated in your post of Romans verse 4 to mean end. But that would then contradict the teaching of the Christ in Matthew's verse 19.
However, there is a different meaning to "Teleos" and that would then make Paul's Roman's epistle collaborate the Christs.

Scripture reference:KJV
End, Ending - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

End, Ending
[ A-1,Noun,G5056, telos ]
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
You are a most contentious person with reason no doubt, was your question a test?
My answer is no.

Isaiah40:8
The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever."
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

I'm not trying to be contentious. I have seen many of your posts and wonder sometimes where the teaching comes from. No offence, really. I could have chosen softer words in my inquiry. My sincere apologies.

Please indulge me for a second as I believe these issues are very important.

So if God's Word Last forever, and I certainly agree with you and believe that it does. What do you preach is the "enmity" that Jesus abolished? Some translations imply that Jesus abolished "the Law with it's commands and regulations". Yet, we have just agreed with the Christ that God's Words last forever.

So one of these scriptures has to be miss understood. The Christ can't abolish that which He has already declared shall last forever.

Some say He abolished His Fathers Holy Sabbaths, as it was only for the Jews. But that would mean Jesus spent His life following worthless Jewish Traditions. Isn't that what He rebuked the Pharisees for? Not to mention that He, as the Word of God, said:

IS. 56:
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, (Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

So this can't really be enmity towards us or God or Jews or Gentiles can it?

Anyway, I believe I understand this Eph.2 Scripture, and my understanding of it agree with all the Word's of God which last forever.

I was just curious as it seemed as if you implied, by the translation you used, that Jesus abolished all the Instructions which proceeded out of the Mouth of God.

If I misunderstood your implication, please forgive me.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Praise God. We need look no further than the Christ and His instruction in Righteousness. Religious man with their doctrines and traditions will come and go. But God's Word Lasts forever.

Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
If you are referring to James 1:27, yes I'm aware of that scripture. I'm also aware that Christ gave us this scripture.

The Great Commandment
28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

We are forgetting there are two aspects to the law. There is the Old Testament Mosaic Law that contains all the rules and regulations that are gone and ended, but parallel to that and flowing all the way through the Bible is the law of love that encompasses our moral and spiritual values. It is the law of love that is for all time. This law of love that Jesus taught so eloquently in word and deed is unending and in Matt 5:17 Jesus is speaking about the everlasting moral and spiritual truths and principles that we must all abide by for all time.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

I'm not trying to be contentious. I have seen many of your posts and wonder sometimes where the teaching comes from. No offence, really. I could have chosen softer words in my inquiry. My sincere apologies.

Please indulge me for a second as I believe these issues are very important.

So if God's Word Last forever, and I certainly agree with you and believe that it does. What do you preach is the "enmity" that Jesus abolished? Some translations imply that Jesus abolished "the Law with it's commands and regulations". Yet, we have just agreed with the Christ that God's Words last forever.

So one of these scriptures has to be miss understood. The Christ can't abolish that which He has already declared shall last forever.

Some say He abolished His Fathers Holy Sabbaths, as it was only for the Jews. But that would mean Jesus spent His life following worthless Jewish Traditions. Isn't that what He rebuked the Pharisees for? Not to mention that He, as the Word of God, said:

IS. 56:
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, (Gentile) that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

So this can't really be enmity towards us or God or Jews or Gentiles can it?

Anyway, I believe I understand this Eph.2 Scripture, and my understanding of it agree with all the Word's of God which last forever.

I was just curious as it seemed as if you implied, by the translation you used, that Jesus abolished all the Instructions which proceeded out of the Mouth of God.

If I misunderstood your implication, please forgive me.
I did not mean to imply that Jesus abolished all of God's instruction only that we now live our Christian life by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus. We are justified before God through faith in Christ.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I'm sorry you feel this way. I believe the Word's of the God of the Bible are truth above that of religious man. I thought maybe you would feel the same way.

I stand corrected.

No, you are ONE that does not believe in the sufficiency of CHRIST. You have to add your 2 Religious cents too.

Do you know, you TALK ABOUT Levitical Priesthood and the Old Covenant way more than you do the Sufficiency of CHRIST.

2 Corinthians 12:9 (ESV)
9 But he said to me,My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Corinthians 3:5-6 (NKJV)
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
We are forgetting there are two aspects to the law. There is the Old Testament Mosaic Law that contains all the rules and regulations that are gone and ended, but parallel to that and flowing all the way through the Bible is the law of love that encompasses our moral and spiritual values. It is the law of love that is for all time. This law of love that Jesus taught so eloquently in word and deed is unending and in Matt 5:17 Jesus is speaking about the everlasting moral and spiritual truths and principles that we must all abide by for all time.
So it is written that all the Law and Prophets hang on two Commandments.

Deut. 6:
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Lev. 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Matt. 5:17.
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, (etc.)

This is an interesting question is it not? Which Commandments He asked.

Did Jesus then tell this wealthy man to take the best Goat, or Bull from his flock and bring it to the Levite Priest in order to have his sin's forgiven? That was a "Commandment of Moses". There was an entire Priesthood which performed ceremonial duties for the remission of sins. Why didn't Jesus mention this "Commandment" but chose instead to direct this man to the parts of God Law that was directed to the people, the 10 commandments and not to the High Priest?

That is because of the Promise He gave as the Word of God in Jeremiah 31. He was going to replace the Priesthood, not the definition of sin as many who come in Christ's name preach.

How many people did Jesus forgive in his ministry as a man? How many goats did He kill, or sheep or turtle doves?

Not one, yet is was the Law of Moses that sins could not be forgiven without the Levite Priest. How could Jesus reject this Law and be considered "lawful"? Because the "LAW" already told us of the new Priesthood, the New Covenant that was coming. Jesus rejection of the Levitical Priesthood WAS following the Law and Prophets.

The definition of "SIN" was not re-defined as you imply. The preaching that it was is a great deception.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
Enmity

A state or feeling of active opposition or hostility.

Genesis 3:14-15
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Romans 5:1
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

We have peace

5:1 Peace here is not a subjective feeling of peace. Rather, this peace is the state of being at peace instead of at war. The hostility between God and the believer has ceased. The believer has been reconciled to God.
5:2 To have access means “to approach,” as if by introduction into a king’s throne room. Believers have been granted admission to stand before God. Even though they were once rebels, they do not have to face His judgment. Instead they approach His throne in the realm of grace, or in the King’s favor. Rejoice means “to boast” and hope means “expectation.” Believers boast in the sure expectation of the glory of God. They are confident, for God Himself has placed the Holy Spirit in their hearts (v. 5).

We have peace with God (no enmity) as a result of our faith in Jesus which means we are justified by this faith.

Jesus bruised his head and as a result

Romans 5:2
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
I did not mean to imply that Jesus abolished all of God's instruction only that we now live our Christian life by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus. We are justified before God through faith in Christ.
I understand that He cleansed me of my past sins, through my Faith in Him. I get that.

Rom. 3:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom. 6:
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, (dead in our sins) but under grace? (Alive) God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (God's Righteousness I assume, since mine is a filthy rag)

I understand all this.

I am asking I guess, why you posed that scripture, and what you believe Jesus abolished that was at "enmity" with us.?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Enmity

A state or feeling of active opposition or hostility.

Genesis 3:14-15
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Romans 5:1
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

We have peace

5:1 Peace here is not a subjective feeling of peace. Rather, this peace is the state of being at peace instead of at war. The hostility between God and the believer has ceased. The believer has been reconciled to God.
5:2 To have access means “to approach,” as if by introduction into a king’s throne room. Believers have been granted admission to stand before God. Even though they were once rebels, they do not have to face His judgment. Instead they approach His throne in the realm of grace, or in the King’s favor. Rejoice means “to boast” and hope means “expectation.” Believers boast in the sure expectation of the glory of God. They are confident, for God Himself has placed the Holy Spirit in their hearts (v. 5).

We have peace with God (no enmity) as a result of our faith in Jesus which means we are justified by this faith.

Jesus bruised his head and as a result

Romans 5:2
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
This is very good Billy.

I would humbly add another relevant scripture.

Rom. 8:
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

This is the enmity Jesus abolished. When a man is truly repentant, truly "SEEKING" the Messiah with all their heart and which all their might, He manifest Himself to him. He takes down that barrier. Now we are "free" from that enmity to serve Him in Holiness.

Eph. 4:
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him

This is how we know for sure if we are on the right track.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (This can only be done if He takes down the barrier, removes the enmity )

Rom. 6:
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Now all that is left is to find out what God considers Holy, what God considers Righteousness, and be "doers" of these things.

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


Good post Billy:)
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Briefly sin is rebellion against God and no-one is trying to re-define it.
Actually sin is defined as "Transgressing God's Law". And man has been trying to re-define it since the serpent convinced Eve "You shall surely not die".
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
This is very good Billy.

I would humbly add another relevant scripture.

Rom. 8:
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

This is the enmity Jesus abolished. When a man is truly repentant, truly "SEEKING" the Messiah with all their heart and which all their might, He manifest Himself to him. He takes down that barrier. Now we are "free" from that enmity to serve Him in Holiness.

Eph. 4:
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him

This is how we know for sure if we are on the right track.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (This can only be done if He takes down the barrier, removes the enmity )

Rom. 6:
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Now all that is left is to find out what God considers Holy, what God considers Righteousness, and be "doers" of these things.

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


Good post Billy:)
Romans 5:3-9
3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Christ in Our Place
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
I understand that He cleansed me of my past sins, through my Faith in Him. I get that.

Rom. 3:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom. 6:
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, (dead in our sins) but under grace? (Alive) God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (God's Righteousness I assume, since mine is a filthy rag)

I understand all this.

I am asking I guess, why you posed that scripture, and what you believe Jesus abolished that was at "enmity" with us.?

That Jew and Gentile and sinners are at peace with each other and each are at peace with God by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. The scripture was posted because in my view you have built a wall between you and Christians, through your own theology. I understand you do not agree with my point of view.

Ephesians2:16
and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.​
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
Romans 5:3-9
3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Christ in Our Place
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Matt. 7:
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Rom. 11:
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Matt. 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
Matt. 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
John 6:35-40
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Why don't you think for just a second and consider "WHO" the "they" were Cee?

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matt. 23:4 For they ( The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Acts 7:
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Rom. 1:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

John 8:
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it


2 Thess. 2:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Not all, who called themselves the Children of God, rejected God's Word's. Zechariahs, Anna, the Wise Men, Simion, there were more. These didn't reject God's instructions and create their own. These didn't "Transgress the Commandments of God" by their own religious Traditions. These didn't "teach for Doctrines the Commandments of Men".

And as Jesus promised in John 14. He manifest Himself to them just like He did to Abraham and Noah, Elijah and Every other example of Faith in the entire Bible.

How is this not true.
I'm glad you asked how is this not true.

Because you're painting a picture that just isn't true.

They didn't know Jesus was God in the flesh. Even His disciples believed it slowly. This idea that everyone was expecting God to show up in human form is not the case. The wise man followed a star and celebrated Him as the Messiah. But far, far more people didn't have a clue.

They celebrated Him saying, Hosanna when He rode in on a young colt. They expected Him to take vengeance on their enemies and set himself up as the King. But when He didn't - THEY sentenced Him to die. THEY chose Barabbas not Jesus. THEY had no clue at all He was going to die. Even His disciples ran away. He surprised everyone - even the spiritual principalities.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,275
113
I'm glad you asked how is this not true.

Because you're painting a picture that just isn't true.

They didn't know Jesus was God in the flesh. Even His disciples believed it slowly. This idea that everyone was expecting God to show up in human form is not the case. The wise man followed a star and celebrated Him as the Messiah. But far, far more people didn't have a clue.

They celebrated Him saying, Hosanna when He rode in on a young colt. They expected Him to take vengeance on their enemies and set himself up as the King. But when He didn't - THEY sentenced Him to die. THEY chose Barabbas not Jesus. THEY had no clue at all He was going to die. Even His disciples ran away. He surprised everyone - even the spiritual principalities.
I thought there was a politucal payoff to people to have them vote for the life of barabus?
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
I'm sorry you feel this way. I believe the Word's of the God of the Bible are truth above that of religious man. I thought maybe you would feel the same way.

I stand corrected.
We agree with the Word of God, but not your out of context philosophy to Scripture.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
Praise God. We need look no further than the Christ and His instruction in Righteousness. Religious man with their doctrines and traditions will come and go. But God's Word Lasts forever.

Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
You're tripping up again.

Read the Scripture again... Christ is the end of righteousness for those who BELIEVE.

So why does the Law still exist? It's for those who don't believe.

Your cherry picked Scripture doesn't mean the Law is still in effect for those who DO believe.