Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

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GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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517
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It is, I figured out a long while back.

How is Italy Fran?
It's still attached to Europe,,,but some (including me) would like to detach.
Wish we had a good government...

I got a cute kitten. He's a year old now.
Very active and jumps like a little fox --- wanna see a picture?
You'd like him....


Stellina One (2).jpg
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Tomorrow D, too tired.
I'll only say this for now...
you say that when one denies Christ it's talking about BEFORE they are saved.

IF a person denies Christ, what difference does it make WHEN?
The spiritual law remains the same...denial is denial and Jesus said if we deny HIM, He will deny us to the Father.

To be cont'd.
Show me where Peter lost his salvation and or even apologized or repented for his sin other than weeping bitterly.....he denied the Lord not once, not twice, but THREE times........

You are again conflating two ideas and missing the bigger picture Fran......
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
It's still attached to Europe,,,but some (including me) would like to detach.
Wish we had a good government...

I got a cute kitten. He's a year old now.
Very active and jumps like a little fox --- wanna see a picture?
You'd like him....


View attachment 190022
Yes I do like him......beautiful cat!!
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
How does the Holy Spirit stay with me if I deny God, walk away from Him and go on about my merry way?

Before we were saved, we didn't have the Holy Spirit abiding in us...WHENEVER we deny God, we will not have the Holy Spirit abiding in us.
John 15:1-6 states this clearly.

Is there a verse that states we could deny God and still be saved?
So the Holy Spirit leaves when we deny God, then we can repent and get the Spirit again. See this is what I was going on about.

Btw to answer your question I bolded: Yes there is kinda: Here it is:

2 Timothy 2:12-13
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Show me where Peter lost his salvation and or even apologized or repented for his sin other than weeping bitterly.....he denied the Lord not once, not twice, but THREE times........

You are again conflating two ideas and missing the bigger picture Fran......
Not with his heart...
It's always a matter of the heart.

Just like we could SAY we love God, but really don't...
We could also say we don't love God,,,when really we do. (for whatever reason...and God knows the heart).
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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...abandon the faith
The passage has nothing to do with losing salvation, it means departing from the doctrine, the teaching, thus "the faith" not lost "their" faith or salvation&c as you erroneously conclude.

And it's not in 1 Timothy 4:13. 1 Timothy 4:1? Yes.

Even others Catholics like you (Trent Horn for example) know this FranC.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
So the Holy Spirit leaves when we deny God, then we can repent and get the Spirit again. See this is what I was going on about.

Btw to answer your question I bolded: Yes there is kinda: Here it is:

2 Timothy 2:12-13
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Too tired and must sign off.

BUT...read that scripture again. It contradicts itself.
The bible doesn't contradict itself...So what's the answer?
In verse 12 He is denying US
In verse 13 He cannot deny HIMSELF.

What does this mean?
If you don't look it up,,,I'll respond tomorrow...

(God can deny us, but can He deny Himself? Is He a liar?)
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
The passage has nothing to do with losing salvation, it means departing from the doctrine, the teaching, thus "the faith" not lost "their" faith or salvation&c as you erroneously conclude.

And it's not in 1 Timothy 4:13. 1 Timothy 4:1? Yes.

Even others Catholics like you (Trent Horn for example) know this FranC.
1 Timothy 4:1 about falling away from the faith.
Thanks for the correction.

So faith and doctrine is the same???
Whateva.

And I don't conclude anything erroneously...
most churches, Catholic and Protestant do NOT believe in eternal security.

I don't know who Trent Horn is and I really don't care to know.

I'm not catholic. Take it or leave it.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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(1 John 1:9) is for Christians who sin also. The purpose of the confession is to obtain forgiveness and know that Jesus is faithful and will forgive those sins. Again, this is for ones sanctification. Ones walk of salvation. It is not for obtaining eternal life. The daily confession of sins is no knew thing here. When the disciples asked Christ how to pray one of the stipulations He laid downs was, "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." (Matt. 6:12) This prayer is in view of a daily walk also. "Give us this day our daily bread" (Matt. 6:11)

So, in that daily walk with God, John says in order for you the Christian to have a full joy in the Lord, (1 John 1:4) we confess our daily sins and know that Jesus is faithful to forgive us those sins. He is not forgiving them to give you eternal life. He is forgiving them so that your walk with Him and joy in Him is not hindered. Which means also that if confession of sins on a daily basis is not done, then your joy in Him will be affected. And who is there that would argue against that?

Concerning (1 John 2:12) John is addressing every age of maturity in the Body of Christ. These are those who are in a walk with the Lord. Thus the 'little children' are those who have come to Christ and are obedient to (1 John 1:9) in confessing their daily sins, and keeping their fellowship with Him.

Confessing our sins is not redundant, as I have already said, it is not for the purpose of remitting our sins. That has been done. It is for the purpose of our walk of fellowship. That our joy may be full. And we can know that Jesus forgives us those sins we confess daily.

See (John 13:4-10). This is a good example of a daily washing or cleansing.

Quantrill
Quantril, this would be double jeopardy. How can you ask God to forgive you for that which He has already remitted? As Hebrews says, "where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." There is no forgiveness outside of the blood of Christ. It is the only means by which remission/forgiveness is truly granted through faith (without the shedding of blood, there is no remission).

What you're teaching is known as "parental forgiveness" and it implies that the Lord holds our sins against us. At one point in time I was committing a sin and one day the Lord spoke to me (of that sin) and said, "I hold not these sins against you." I didn't ask for forgiveness, didn't confess my sin for forgiveness or anything of the sort. He wanted to let me know that He has forgiven me. That I stand redeemed and reconciled before Him, based upon His Son.

If we say that we must ask God to forgive us any sin, then Christ would have to go back on to the cross. That He will not do. There is no more offering for sin. He became the sacrifice, rose from the dead, and now sits on the Father's right hand. He has an eternal priesthood, whereby He is the mediator between God and man. His blood is sufficient for sin (all sin that could ever exist). This is why He did ONE sacrifice, and thats it. If it wasn't sufficient for all sin scripture teaches (in Hebrews) that He would have to suffer since the foundation of the world (being that He is the sacrifice for sin). However, praise God, His blood isn't common, it isn't like the blood of bulls and goats incapable of taking away sin, but has granted us remission (forever).

In respect to fellowship, sin is a hindrance upon our destiny. We do need to repent, yes, the Lord will address the elephant in the room if you're committing sin. He desires better for us. It is His process of sanctification, and He will continue to sanctify you. Yet, do not think for a moment that you're condemned in any respect. He remembers our sins no more, in that He doesn't hold them against us. He has made this a part of the new covenant. Its in the fine details! Is is gracious of Him, founded in the providence of Christ's sacrifice.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I agree with you EG.
I do have a problem with those that say that one absolutely cannot leave the faith...I'm sure we all know someone that has. I don't say this is an easy thing to do once someone has known the love of God.

Some in churches are not saved.
But also, some that ARE saved CAN leave the faith.
I don't understand why this is so difficult to accept.
I certainly don't plan to ever leave God and I'm sure you don't.

1 Timothy 4:13 Paul clearly states that some will abandon the faith.
(BTW, you didn't reply to those Mathew verses but only said they do not pertain to loss of salvation)

What do you make of this video?
(if I can find it)

I know many who have left the church.

I know some who left, but still believes in christ, they just lost faiht inthe church. Am I going to judge them as unsaved?

I myself was a prodigal child. Did I lose my salvation for those 5 years?

I even know a few who have left And now deny christ, And I wouldl never say They were ever saved, to do so, I would have to say John lied, Because john tells me they were not.

I can not go against johns words. To do so would be going against scripture.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Not with his heart...
It's always a matter of the heart.

Just like we could SAY we love God, but really don't...
We could also say we don't love God,,,when really we do. (for whatever reason...and God knows the heart).
Love has no bearing on the current convo....it is a process of growth and maturity AFTER one has been saved/born again from above...

let me ask you...You were born Fran right....can ANYTHING you DO ever CHANGE the fact of who you were born as? NO nothing....

We are born of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED..what does INCURRUPTIBLE SEED MEAN?
We are born from ABOVE by the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD
One born of GOD DOES NOT SIN according to JOHN
How can ETERNAL and EVERLASTING as applied unto LIFE/SALVATION be TEMPORARY?
AND if the SPIRIT born of GOD does NOT SIN how can it LOSE salvation? <---A LACK of faith is SIN, if it is NOT of faith it is SIN

SO this is what you would have us believe...a SPIRIT, born of GOD, from ABOVE, that DOES NOT SIN and is GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE BY FAITH can INDEED SIN, FALTER, BE UNBORN from ABOVE and LOSE that which is called ETERNAL by GOD.....

Sorry...that does not jive with scripture!
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
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Lol.. Do you hae eternal life or conditional life.

Just be blunt, tell us what you believe? Did Jesus lie? Did John lie?

PS. I am not defending OSAS. So please. Stop with your nonsense.

I am defending the promises of God. How many times do I have to tell you this??

Your stuck on sins, sins that were payed for on the cross. And OSAS. A doctrine of men.

I am defending the promises of God. How come you never want to discuss them??



Actually, I do believe in a once saved always saved scenario.

But that is based upon first I accepted Christ as my Savior, secondly If I sin I know God is faithful to forgive me, thirdly I know God will always keep His promise so it is up to me to continue believing in Him and allowing my faith in Him to grow, fourth and lastly I believe to grow closer to God is to become someone who denies himself for the purpose and goal of God (which includes working on sinning less).

I just do not buy if I sin and then DON'T have it covered under the BLOOD, God is cool with me assuming He will fix it. I believe one of the reasons we have the Holy Spirit inside us that connects us to God, is to keep us aware when we are sinful, so we can have it put under the BLOOD. When I sin I do have this guilty feeling because I know light and darkness do not mesh. Plus, I know the guilty feeling is from the Holy Spirit because it's the same way the guilt hit me when I did decide to be saved in the first place. And, since I know the Holy Spirit is God, I know God is pure and I want my life to be as pure as possible since God dwells within me.


I just do not buy the if I sin it's ok because God knows everything and knows I am His. There are no scriptures specific to that situation. So to me, that was someone's opinion and many people have bought into it....not me though!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Not with his heart...
It's always a matter of the heart.

Just like we could SAY we love God, but really don't...
We could also say we don't love God,,,when really we do. (for whatever reason...and God knows the heart).
BY YOUR WORDS SHALT thou be JUDGED JESUS said......PETER denied the LORD 3 times and EVEN cussed in the process....did he lose salvation?.....TELL US or point us to where he LOST salvation and then REGAINED IT....OOOOOPSSSS you guys teach that it cannot be regained per Hebrews out of context....
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
1 Timothy 4:1 about falling away from the faith.
Thanks for the correction.

So faith and doctrine is the same???
Whateva.

And I don't conclude anything erroneously...
most churches, Catholic and Protestant do NOT believe in eternal security.

I don't know who Trent Horn is and I really don't care to know.

I'm not catholic. Take it or leave it.
The jews did not believe in it either, thats why they persecuted the church so strongly

Since when does majority rule. If you knew what scripture said about the few. You would know not to use this as any kind of argument.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Actually, I do believe in a once saved always saved scenario.

But that is based upon first I accepted Christ as my Savior, secondly If I sin I know God is faithful to forgive me, thirdly I know God will always keep His promise so it is up to me to continue believing in Him and allowing my faith in Him to grow, fourth and lastly I believe to grow closer to God is to become someone who denies himself for the purpose and goal of God (which includes working on sinning less).

I just do not buy if I sin and then DON'T have it covered under the BLOOD, God is cool with me assuming He will fix it. I believe one of the reasons we have the Holy Spirit inside us that connects us to God, is to keep us aware when we are sinful, so we can have it put under the BLOOD. When I sin I do have this guilty feeling because I know light and darkness do not mesh. Plus, I know the guilty feeling is from the Holy Spirit because it's the same way the guilt hit me when I did decide to be saved in the first place. And, since I know the Holy Spirit is God, I know God is pure and I want my life to be as pure as possible since God dwells within me.


I just do not buy the if I sin it's ok because God knows everything and knows I am His. There are no scriptures specific to that situation. So to me, that was someone's opinion and many people have bought into it....not me though!!
So in otheer words, You do not believe in eternal secruity.

Does yoru father kick you out of his family (or do you kick your kids out) when he says do not take a cookee. And you did (or something like this) and you did not think you did anything wrong?

Why do you hold God to a lower standard. That sad.
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
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Show me where Peter lost his salvation and or even apologized or repented for his sin other than weeping bitterly.....he denied the Lord not once, not twice, but THREE times........

You are again conflating two ideas and missing the bigger picture Fran......


Why do you think Peter wept so bitterly as Luke indicates?
Because he had done Christ wrong. The scripture does not have to indicate Peter sought forgiveness, his sorrow and weeping bitterly is obvious he repented.

I have been sorrowful for things I have done that it caused me to weep like I assume Peter did. And during my time of weeping, I was very sorry for what I had done. To me, this by Peter is not only acknowledging he knew he did wrong, but weeping as he did, he clearly was sorry. That is as clear as it gets to repenting.

If Peter knew he was forgiven, there would be no need to cry in sorrow like he did. He clearly repented!!