Is Universalsim in Opposition to the Bible?

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Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
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South
adelaiderevival.com
@IsaiahX
To answer your question - NO

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among
you was believed) in that day.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
Did you bother to read the creeds? Did you bother to look up the history of their creation? Did you bother to look up what the elders creating them said about them? You along with others ignore the history and reasons for their creation. You have the 21 century concept. Back then Bibles were very expensive and rare. A scribe would work months to create a copy of the Bible. Due to the rarity of books people back then committed a lot of information to memory. Creeds and selected verses of the Bible was how the gospel message was passed to others. This was the method of evangelism. You need to understand how it was back then as opposed to today the plentiful books because of the printing press!!
it makes little difference in what the creeds say, thats not the issue. what authority do these guys have to decide who is a follow of Christ and who is not?
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
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I get very tired of people spouting off in ignorance. People need to do a bit of research before putting their foot in their mouth.
Oh, go ahead! Name a name! :)
Some people would otherwise have no way to keep their toesies clean were they not prone to sticking their foot in their own mouth from time to time.
I've done that myself , I do admit. Hey, you know what they say, toesie cleanliness is next to godliness toesies.
Ave omnia in decem!
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
Did you bother to read the creeds? Did you bother to look up the history of their creation? Did you bother to look up what the elders creating them said about them? You along with others ignore the history and reasons for their creation. You have the 21 century concept. Back then Bibles were very expensive and rare. A scribe would work months to create a copy of the Bible. Due to the rarity of books people back then committed a lot of information to memory. Creeds and selected verses of the Bible was how the gospel message was passed to others. This was the method of evangelism. You need to understand how it was back then as opposed to today the plentiful books because of the printing press!!
it makes little difference in what the creeds say, thats not the issue. what authority do these guys have to decide who is a follow of Christ and who is not?
Who said they had the spirit? I never said that..

You seem to be fishing man..

Why do you want universalism to be true?
The HS is sent to the whole world to convict them of sin righteousness and judgement
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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I don't give much creedence to creeds
 
Dec 12, 2013
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There is more than one kind of salvation. Was he talking about the salvation of his soul? Eternal life?
10 characters..................................Go study every place where David speaks of his salvation in the Psalms......and several Psalms are directed squarely at the salvation of the SOUL....JOB even speaks to it as well.....and acknowledges HIS REDEEMER lives and will SEE him with his own eyes AFTER his body had been eaten by worms which shows he knew of and UNDERSTOOD the resurrection.....JOB is the oldest book! AND no....not the verses you cited.....look deeper
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
Why do you want universalism to be true?
i didnt see this.

universalism - everyone goes to heaven. yes i would be for that. why, because the idea of anyone burning in agony forever and ever hurts my heart.
so im guessing you are against such an idea. so this would mean you are all for people suffering? this seems really strange to me.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
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10 characters..................................Go study every place where David speaks of his salvation in the Psalms......and several Psalms are directed squarely at the salvation of the SOUL....JOB even speaks to it as well.....and acknowledges HIS REDEEMER lives and will SEE him with his own eyes AFTER his body had been eaten by worms which shows he knew of and UNDERSTOOD the resurrection.....JOB is the oldest book! AND no....not the verses you cited.....look deeper
So, let's take stock of all the categories that will be in heaven.
- Believers in Christ
- Children of a young age (supposed innocents)
- The biblical Patriarchs

I would add more to this group, but you can see that there are more than just the believers in Christ.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
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I have read the creeds and I am convinced that the main author was antichrist. When the Protestants broke off the Catholic Church, they should have just started over. The way they did it just make them offshoots of the RCC. As it is they are daughters of the Great Whore and are harlots themselves (Rev. 17:5). :cry:
You might like this . And perhaps the article linked to a separate article site below it.
There are many Christians who identify as "non-denominational" and will state as pertains to creed, they hold no creed but Christ.

What does “no creed but Christ” mean?
The word credo means I believe. Leaders in the effort to restore New Testament Christianity used “no creed but Christ” to indicate their commitment to follow only the teaching of Christ. That includes following Christ’s attitude toward authority. He condemned traditionalism (Mt. 15:9), and considered the writings of Moses as “the word of God” (Mk. 7:10-13). He lived under the Law (Gal. 4:4), and taught people under it to obey Moses (Lk. 10:25-28). He never told anyone “do what you feel Moses would do.” When asked about divorce, He quoted a statement, used the example of Adam and Eve and drew the conclusion “Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate” (Mt. 19:3-6; Gen. 2:24). Those who believe Christ, give Bible authority (a precept, example or necessary inference) for everything they do in religion.








EARLY CHRISTIANITY


"Christianity is a creedal religion. You cannot separate Christianity from its ancient creeds. In fact, every true Christian adheres to the ancient creeds of the church, whether he knows it or not . . . . Creeds are concise doctrinal summaries of the doctrines of Scripture, and are subordinate to Scripture as our only infallible rule for faith and life . . . . If we are true Christians who have put our trust in the Christ of the Bible, it is impossible for us not to affirm the church's ancient creedal statements on the Bible's teaching. What's more, we are living in a day when we must not only affirm them but defend them against the onslaught of heretical teachings about the person and work of Jesus Christ."

-- Dr. Burk Parsons, Chief Publishing Officer of Ligonier Ministries, and Senior Pastor of Saint Andrews Chapel in Sanford, Fla. (Table Talk magazine)

"In one of the quirks of church history, the "Nicene Creed" used in church hymnals and liturgies is a different creed from the one accepted at Nicaea. In 381, the Council of Constantinople affirmed the Nicene Creed and condemned heresies that had since arisen against Nicaea. But from later records (preserved at the Council of Chalcedon, 70 years later) we know that another creed was also used, now known as the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed. This creed is more strictly Trinitarian than the Nicene, describing each member of the Trinity in relation to the other members. The creed of 325 says less about the Father and only mentions the Holy Spirit with no description at all, since the council's attention was fixed on how the Son is no less divine than the Father."

-- Dr. D.H. Williams, Professor of Religion in Patristics and Historical Theology, Baylor University. (Christian History magazine, Winter 2005 issue)

ORIGINAL NICENE CREED (AD 325)

We believe in one God, the Father, almighty, maker of all things visible and invisible;

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, begotten from the Father, only-begotten, that is, from the substance of th Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, of one substance from the Father, through Whom all things came into being, things in heaven and things on earth, who because of us men and because of our salvation came down and became incarnate, becoming man, suffered and rose again on the third day, ascended to the heavens, will come to judge the living and the dead.

And in the Holy Spirit.

But as for those who say, there was when he was not, and, before being born he was not, and he came into existence out of nothing, or who assert that the son of God is a different hypostasis or substance, or is subject to change or alteration--these the Catholic* and Apostolic Church anathematizes.

 
Dec 12, 2013
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So, let's take stock of all the categories that will be in heaven.
- Believers in Christ
- Children of a young age (supposed innocents)
- The biblical Patriarchs

I would add more to this group, but you can see that there are more than just the believers in Christ.
Not hardly......and your conclusion lacks truth......it is obvious that you did not read a word I said in numerous posts, because I did not say what you imply nor do I believe that garbage....
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I have read the creeds and I am convinced that the main author was antichrist. When the Protestants broke off the Catholic Church, they should have just started over. The way they did it just make them offshoots of the RCC. As it is they are daughters of the Great Whore and are harlots themselves (Rev. 17:5). :cry:
One of the saddest and most ignorant responses I've seen on here.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
i didnt see this.

universalism - everyone goes to heaven. yes i would be for that. why, because the idea of anyone burning in agony forever and ever hurts my heart.
so im guessing you are against such an idea. so this would mean you are all for people suffering? this seems really strange to me.
What I am against is allowing any person to get away with their crimes. What kind of future would we have if people commit crimes, and got away with it and did not have to humble themselves to recieve the offering of grace offered to them? There would be no peace in heaven, it would be no different than here on earth.

Imagine if we just let murderers walk because we did not want them to suffer in jail. So the man who killed our wife and kids got away with it. And no one had to pay for his crimes, Whats to stop them from doing it again? We would demand justice, everyone would

So why is it when God says he will offer justice to anyone who reject him, we all of a sudden get all uptight. Blame God, as if its his fault.

He died for your sin, And mine, and every person who walks the earth. If anyone is even the slightest positive to Gods call. God will make sure that person gets what he needs, And if God knows no matter what he does, a person will NEVER come to him, then again, you still can not blame God

God did not want them to suffer either, But he paid their price and offered them a way out. Everyone is hell will be there because they chose to.. Its on them, Not God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
it makes little difference in what the creeds say, thats not the issue. what authority do these guys have to decide who is a follow of Christ and who is not?
Can you please learn to read.

1. I said the HS was sent to help them understand, I never said he went into them
2. Its not a creed. It is the word of God. Or do you think the word of God has no authority?
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
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Could you answer my questions please, sir?:


1. Which creeds do you mean from 212 to 500? Could you list them for me? I know the apostles creed and nicene creed, dont really know the others?

2. I agree many things we can agree to disagree on, fundamentals are required.

3. Why did the creeds stop being authoritative after 500? What happened then? The catholics came into power? Or what?
There was the Apostles Creed, Nicine Creed 1 and 2, and last the Athenasian Creed. At that point the elders had passed around the creeds so they felt no more were needed since they all said basically the same thing. The reason for Nicine 2 was a controversy about the wording in part of Nicine 1.

The creeds never stopped being authoritative but the need for more was not felt. Keep in mind the slow passing on the creeds back then throughout the Roman Empire. Someone knowing one would have to travel elsewhere and tell others about one helping them memorize it. It creeped through the empire.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
Can you please learn to read.

1. I said the HS was sent to help them understand, I never said he went into them
2. Its not a creed. It is the word of God. Or do you think the word of God has no authority?
im sorry EG that first post was meant for another guy. dont know how they both got stuck together.

1. I said the HS was sent to help them understand, I never said he went into them
explain the difference?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
There was the Apostles Creed, Nicine Creed 1 and 2, and last the Athenasian Creed. At that point the elders had passed around the creeds so they felt no more were needed since they all said basically the same thing. The reason for Nicine 2 was a controversy about the wording in part of Nicine 1.

The creeds never stopped being authoritative but the need for more was not felt. Keep in mind the slow passing on the creeds back then throughout the Roman Empire. Someone knowing one would have to travel elsewhere and tell others about one helping them memorize it. It creeped through the empire.
why do you think Jesus and the 12 didnt establish these creeds of rules and checklists?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
im sorry EG that first post was meant for another guy. dont know how they both got stuck together.
Its all good.

explain the difference?
A tutor tries to help people grow in knowledge of a particular subject, He leads them and tries to guide them

A tutor does nto enter you. He just guides you


The HS enters a person who has been cleansed of sin, After he enters that person, he becomes much more than just a tutor
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
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i didnt see this.

universalism - everyone goes to heaven. yes i would be for that. why, because the idea of anyone burning in agony forever and ever hurts my heart.
so im guessing you are against such an idea. so this would mean you are all for people suffering? this seems really strange to me.
j...,

I recently was asked if I was glad that Osama BL was in hell. I said no......or anyone else as far as that goes, including Hitler. Praying all the while that they and their type receive a great measure of G-d's wrath. But, we know there are many who will spend eternity in a state of damnation.....the Bible says so.
It is G-d's plan and best we concentrate on His plan for us Christians to spend eternity in Heaven.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
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it makes little difference in what the creeds say, thats not the issue. what authority do these guys have to decide who is a follow of Christ and who is not?
Are you claiming the early elders were not Godly men passing on the truth of God and Jesus? It makes a huge difference what the creeds say. Demonstrate where in any of them where they are not Biblical. I posted the Apostles Creed. Start there and demonstrate where it is non Biblical. Today each gospel preaching church and denomination has a document stating what their beliefs are and are consistent with the Bible. Same issue. Do you reject your churches doctrinal statement about the Biblical beliefs it holds fast to?

I get very tired of those like you who just out of hand reject them for absolutely no logical reason about what they say. Refute them or shut up about them.