Book of Daniel, the key to eschatology

[dcontroversal]

Your answers only bring up more questions. Guess you are not Amil. I thought you were. Jesus minitry was 3 1/2 years.


Little horn comes up AMONG the 10 horns of the 4th beast. V19 boastful, eyes like a man – He holds a high position among men, his manner may be humble, but his appearance boasts of his position; and He sees with the eyes of a man, not with spiritual eyes. This horn comes out of the beast, the Roman religion .

“larger in appearance than it’s associates” …..it dominates the nations, yet is not a nation. ( Roman Catholic Religion?)

This horn becomes a nation within a nation…..not named among them, but not subject to any of them. Because of the Caesar rule, the roman church was made possible. Constantine desired to unify his conquered nations and used religion, much as the Caesars had used Caesar worship, to unify their nations. Since Christianity was a stronger influence by this time, a perversion of Christianity was tolerated by Constantine as the state religion to quiet the general population and unify them under the banner of a state church. However, Constantine was never a convert to Christianity, and remained a SUN worshipper, with much of the symbolism of sun worship being incorporated INTO the state church of Rome, ( this sop was given to Constantine for giving this apostate and heretical religion power over the people and power for themselves through the hierarchy of this religion.) and the sun is still an obvious symbol in the Roman church today.

the BEAST (collectively, the reign of all the Caesars) v23

Naaaa......sorry not buying it......the religion of the beast is ISLAM....the false prophet is from a reunified Roman Catholic/Greek Orthodox religion....study Daniel......the beast comes out of the area conquered by Alexander the Great then divided by his 4 generals...the wars between the Seleucid's and Ptomolies 'The Kings of the North and the Kings of the South ends and comes to fruition with the beast rising up out of the 10 horned Islamic confederation at the end of the age....The area being South Eastern Turkey, North Eastern Syria and North Western Iraq.....He is called the Assyrian.........when you lay the beast of revelation nest to the 12th Imam/Madhi it is clear to see..........

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Naaaa......sorry not buying it......the religion of the beast is ISLAM....the false prophet is from a reunified Roman Catholic/Greek Orthodox religion....study Daniel......the beast comes out of the area conquered by Alexander the Great then divided by his 4 generals...the wars between the Seleucid's and Ptomolies 'The Kings of the North and the Kings of the South ends and comes to fruition with the beast rising up out of the 10 horned Islamic confederation at the end of the age....The area being South Eastern Turkey, North Eastern Syria and North Western Iraq.....He is called the Assyrian.........when you lay the beast of revelation nest to the 12th Imam/Madhi it is clear to see..........

Wherever that doctrine of eschatology comes from needs to be put back in the bottle.

 

[dcontroversal]

Wherever that doctrine of eschatology comes from needs to be put back in the bottle.

Another dig.....yeah it comes from the last 32 years of study...both historical and biblical.............

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Another dig.....yeah it comes from the last 32 years of study...both historical and biblical.............

I posted THAT eschatology, meaning YOUR take on it
I see how my post could be misconstrued......no emphasis on the THAT. Written word is a bummer some times

 

[Endoscopy]

Naaaa......sorry not buying it......the religion of the beast is ISLAM....the false prophet is from a reunified Roman Catholic/Greek Orthodox religion....study Daniel......the beast comes out of the area conquered by Alexander the Great then divided by his 4 generals...the wars between the Seleucid's and Ptomolies 'The Kings of the North and the Kings of the South ends and comes to fruition with the beast rising up out of the 10 horned Islamic confederation at the end of the age....The area being South Eastern Turkey, North Eastern Syria and North Western Iraq.....He is called the Assyrian.........when you lay the beast of revelation nest to the 12th Imam/Madhi it is clear to see..........

ROFL
That is only one view. There are 3 more Biblical views.

I go with pan view. It will all pan out in the end!

 

[Endoscopy]

Y

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But the day of the lord will come as a thief in the night
in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise
and the elements shall melt with a fervant heat the Earth
also and the works that are therein shall be burned up
Seeing that all these things shall be be dissolved what manner
of persons ought you ye to be in all holy conversations and godliness
Looking for and hasting unto unto the coming of the day of the Lord
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved and the elements
shall melt with fervant heat. Nevertheless we according to his promise
look for new heavens and a new Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness
Wherefore beloved seeing that you look for such things be diligent that
you may be found of him in peace without spot and blameless

2 Peter:3:10-14

But of the times and seasons brethren you have no need that I
write unto you For yourselves know that the day of the Lord
so cometh as a thief in the night For when they say peace and safety
sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child
and they shall not escape. But ye brethren are not in darkness that that day should
overtake you as a thief

1 Thess: 5: 1-4

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating
and drinking marrying and giving in marriage until the day Noe
entered the ark. And knew not until the flood came and took
them all away. So shall the coming of the Son of Man be

Matt 24: 38-39

And I saw a new heaven and a new Earth for the first heaven
and first earth had passed away and there was no more sea

Revelation 21:1

I'm looking for a New Earth others look for a 1000 year reign on the old one with king David
sitting on a wooden throne. To each their own

Please stop with your lies. We look for this new heavens and earth too. Fot is is where we will spend eternity.

The difference between you and us is we take Gods word and meaning literally. If it does not fit our belief system we do nto spiritualise it, or make it out to be some symbolic things that really is never going to happen. We take God to mean what he says, Whether we like it or not does not matter, It is God who decrees, it is God who says these things will happen. And it is God whose reputation is on the line.

The earth and things in it for the last 2000 years does not even closely resemble what God said would happen during his regn on the throne, where he rules with a rod of Iron. You have to literally throw out half of all prophesy concerning the end of the age and the regn of Christ on davids throne for you to be correct. Forgive us for chosing not to do this.

PS. Davud never had a throne in Heaven, So Jesus is NOT at this time ruling on davids throne, He is sitting on HIS OWN THRONE acting as high priest. Not as King.. It would be very helpful if people would learn the difference.

Jesus will not be acting as high priest when he is on Davids throne, he will be acting as king, and judge. The bible says he will PUNISH those who do not come to jerusalem to worhsip him, SO unless you think there is SIN in the new heaven and earth. You have serious issues as to when these punishments will be handed out. Because they ARE NOT BEING HANDED OUT TODAY!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

".......blessd is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1335 days!" Dan 12:12

after the 1290 days there was 45 days to 1335, those 45 days were a lull in the siege, allowing the Christians trapped in Jerusalem to escape to the hills of Pella. I hope you do agree that 1290 + 45 = 1335

Did Jesus return in those days because all life was threathened?

I did not think so..

Next!

 

[tanakh]

Yes, amillennialism says we are now in the Kingdom of God and Satan is already bound. By his binding they say he just can't run whole nations. That is all nonsense, we are given scripture that tells of peace and knowledge of the Lord permeate the kingdom (Jer. 31:34 ). No, the kingdom is yet future. Here are the four views:

According to Paul the Antichrist is being restrained and the restrainer is to be taken away at a future time. In the dispensaionalist version of events this happens when the Church is raptured and the Holy Spirit goes with it allowing the Antichrist to appear and have full reign during the tribulation. Since
the Antichrist is under Satans control and the Antichrist has not yet appeared what to you is the difference between restraint and binding? There is no image of the Beast in Jerusalem at present, the whole world is not yet worshiping him. Also the Church which is part of Christs kingdom is still here

Its strange that neither Jesus, Peter or Paul mention a literal thousand year Millennium If you follow their plain description of the second coming Christ suddenly appears like a thief in the night and then
its judgement day closely followed by a new Heaven and Earth. No mention of a literal thousand year
interlude at all.

From a historic perspective Revelation is believed to have been written Decades after Christs ministry
and wasn't accepted by the whole Church until Constantine's day. Martin Luther thought it was Apocryphal. My point is that a large portion of the Church either didnt accept Revelation or knew of its existence for a considerable time after John wrote it. So it makes one wonder how they all managed
without a literal Millennium to look forward to because the teaching does not appear anywhere else in
the Bible.

The nearest thing we have is a passage about Gog and Magog in Ezekiel which together with Exodus and
Daniel is what Revelation is mainly based on.

 

[tanakh]

Please stop with your lies. We look for this new heavens and earth too. Fot is is where we will spend eternity.

The difference between you and us is we take Gods word and meaning literally. If it does not fit our belief system we do nto spiritualise it, or make it out to be some symbolic things that really is never going to happen. We take God to mean what he says, Whether we like it or not does not matter, It is God who decrees, it is God who says these things will happen. And it is God whose reputation is on the line.

The earth and things in it for the last 2000 years does not even closely resemble what God said would happen during his regn on the throne, where he rules with a rod of Iron. You have to literally throw out half of all prophesy concerning the end of the age and the regn of Christ on davids throne for you to be correct. Forgive us for chosing not to do this.

PS. Davud never had a throne in Heaven, So Jesus is NOT at this time ruling on davids throne, He is sitting on HIS OWN THRONE acting as high priest. Not as King.. It would be very helpful if people would learn the difference.

Jesus will not be acting as high priest when he is on Davids throne, he will be acting as king, and judge. The bible says he will PUNISH those who do not come to jerusalem to worhsip him, SO unless you think there is SIN in the new heaven and earth. You have serious issues as to when these punishments will be handed out. Because they ARE NOT BEING HANDED OUT TODAY!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

According to Paul the Antichrist is being restrained and the restrainer is to be taken away at a future time. In the dispensaionalist version of events this happens when the Church is raptured and the Holy Spirit goes with it allowing the Antichrist to appear and have full reign during the tribulation. Since
the Antichrist is under Satans control and the Antichrist has not yet appeared what to you is the difference between restraint and binding? There is no image of the Beast in Jerusalem at present, the whole world is not yet worshiping him. Also the Church which is part of Christs kingdom is still here

Its strange that neither Jesus, Peter or Paul mention a literal thousand year Millennium If you follow their plain description of the second coming Christ suddenly appears like a thief in the night and then
its judgement day closely followed by a new Heaven and Earth. No mention of a literal thousand year
interlude at all.

From a historic perspective Revelation is believed to have been written Decades after Christs ministry
and wasn't accepted by the whole Church until Constantine's day. Martin Luther thought it was Apocryphal. My point is that a large portion of the Church either didnt accept Revelation or knew of its existence for a considerable time after John wrote it. So it makes one wonder how they all managed
without a literal Millennium to look forward to because the teaching does not appear anywhere else in
the Bible.

The nearest thing we have is a passage about Gog and Magog in Ezekiel which together with Exodus and
Daniel is what Revelation is mainly based on.

Who cares how long it is?? All this anger about how long this period wil be?

Wow. If that was the ONLY argument, You may have a point.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

.....

Nice response..

 

[tanakh]

Please stop with your lies. We look for this new heavens and earth too. Fot is is where we will spend eternity.

The difference between you and us is we take Gods word and meaning literally. If it does not fit our belief system we do nto spiritualise it, or make it out to be some symbolic things that really is never going to happen. We take God to mean what he says, Whether we like it or not does not matter, It is God who decrees, it is God who says these things will happen. And it is God whose reputation is on the line.

The earth and things in it for the last 2000 years does not even closely resemble what God said would happen during his regn on the throne, where he rules with a rod of Iron. You have to literally throw out half of all prophesy concerning the end of the age and the regn of Christ on davids throne for you to be correct. Forgive us for chosing not to do this.

PS. Davud never had a throne in Heaven, So Jesus is NOT at this time ruling on davids throne, He is sitting on HIS OWN THRONE acting as high priest. Not as King.. It would be very helpful if people would learn the difference.

Jesus will not be acting as high priest when he is on Davids throne, he will be acting as king, and judge. The bible says he will PUNISH those who do not come to jerusalem to worhsip him, SO unless you think there is SIN in the new heaven and earth. You have serious issues as to when these punishments will be handed out. Because they ARE NOT BEING HANDED OUT TODAY!

I am not a liar. I have quoted from the KJV translation of the Bible. Where in those scriptures does it say that there will be a literal 1000 year Millennium? By the way Christ is Prophet Priest and King. He said to Pilate my Kingdom is not of this world. He offered the Jews his kingdom and most of them rejected it and continue to do so.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not a liar. I have quoted from the KJV translation of the Bible. Where in those scriptures does it say that there will be a literal 1000 year Millennium? By the way Christ is Prophet Priest and King. He said to Pilate my Kingdom is not of this world. He offered the Jews his kingdom and most of them rejected it and continue to do so.

You are a liar

You claimed you were looking for the new heavens and earth, and we were not.. Sorry man, your not getting off that easy.

It does not have to day there is a literal 1000 year reign, The fact remains, THERE WILL BE A REIGN How long it is (the bible does say a thousand years.) or longer or even shorter is not even the point.

Your stuck on 1000 years. And ignore everything the bible says will HAPPEN during how ever many years that Jesus is rulling. Things which HAVE NEVER HAPPENED up till this day!

 

[tanakh]

Who cares how long it is?? All this anger about how long this period wil be?

Wow. If that was the ONLY argument, You may have a point.

Millennium means 1000 years. The argument is not about length but whether the period is literal or symbolic
The only thing I am angry about is being called a liar

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Millennium means 1000 years. The argument is not about length but whether the period is literal or symbolic
The only thing I am angry about is being called a liar

You did lie, You claimed I was not looking forward to the new heavens and earth. So forgive me for being angry that you lied about me

Prophesy is literal. If it is symbolic, it loses its meaning and purpose. (The purpose is to prove God is the one true God, for only God can say this will happen in this way on this date and tells us hundreds of years before they occure, and they happen just as God said they would. So there is NO QUESTION it came from God (you can not do this with symbolic interpretation of prophesy)

Also. God said things will happen diring that time, things which are not happening today, and have not happened.

Jesus in his first advent literally (not symbolically) fulfilled every prophesy about the suffeirng servant, and what we would today call messianic prophesies of the cross.

If they were literally fulfilled. If Daniels prophesies concerning 4 gentile kingdoms were literally fulfilled. (Which they were) then using historical precedence, so will future prophesies be literally fulfilled.

 

[Deade]

From a historic perspective Revelation is believed to have been written Decades after Christs ministry
and wasn't accepted by the whole Church until Constantine's day. Martin Luther thought it was Apocryphal. My point is that a large portion of the Church either didnt accept Revelation or knew of its existence for a considerable time after John wrote it. So it makes one wonder how they all managed
without a literal Millennium to look forward to because the teaching does not appear anywhere else in
the Bible.

The nearest thing we have is a passage about Gog and Magog in Ezekiel which together with Exodus and
Daniel is what Revelation is mainly based on.

If you want to toss out Revelation, go ahead. What if we can point to something happening on earth in a future time-frame without Revelation. Try this:

New Covenant​

When the disciples received the Holy Ghost in Acts 2, what was the reference to Joel about? And what about the part in the last verse (2:21) “that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved?”

Acts 2:16-21: “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Has there been any era where that has happened? Joel chapter 1 speaks about the devastation of the earth and the Day of the Lord (Future events).

Then Joel 2 ends with: 31: “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.” 32: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.”

Many say we are already in God’s new covenant that was prophesied in the OT and in Acts/Hebrews.

Heb. 8:7-13 “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

Jer. 31:31-34 “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Do you see the direct link between Jeremiah and Hebrews? What about the parallels in Acts and Joel?

Acts 2:16-18 “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”

First a time frame in Joel: Joel 2:1 “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;”

Next, It speaks of a restoration after the Day of the Lord. Then we are given a picture of the new covenant: Joel 2:28, 29 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.”

What can we conclude from this? What we have today is not the New Covenant God was talking about. Not yet. The way I read that is everyone that calls on the Lord will have salvation. Surely, that is not today. So, when is it? Let me hear from you and let’s discuss it.

 

[Endoscopy]

Because both the little horn of Daniel and the Beast of Revelation are one and the same.....and the time frame given to MAKE war against the saints, wear out the saints and prevail against the saints of the most high is exactly 3.5 years, or 42 months or 1260 of the 1335 day time frame listed in Daniel.....my break down is...

1335 days broken down in the following way

30 days of short lived peace <--when they say peace and safety sudden destruction
1260 days of the Great tribulation <---same time beast/little horn makes war and the 2 witnesses prophesy
45 days of wrath

Written to the CHILDREN of DANIEL'S people <----they rejected the 1185 days of the ministry of JESUS and will have to endure ALL 1335 days left of the 70th week of Daniel

1185 plus 1335 = 70th week of Daniel

Since 1960 I have seen people going round and round with the numbers in Daniel. Everybody had a different answer, you just are one more trying to figure it out. What is so hard to understand that the book is closed until end times. Are we in the end times?

 

[Endoscopy]

You did lie, You claimed I was not looking forward to the new heavens and earth. So forgive me for being angry that you lied about me

Prophesy is literal. If it is symbolic, it loses its meaning and purpose. (The purpose is to prove God is the one true God, for only God can say this will happen in this way on this date and tells us hundreds of years before they occure, and they happen just as God said they would. So there is NO QUESTION it came from God (you can not do this with symbolic interpretation of prophesy)

Also. God said things will happen diring that time, things which are not happening today, and have not happened.

Jesus in his first advent literally (not symbolically) fulfilled every prophesy about the suffeirng servant, and what we would today call messianic prophesies of the cross.

If they were literally fulfilled. If Daniels prophesies concerning 4 gentile kingdoms were literally fulfilled. (Which they were) then using historical precedence, so will future prophesies be literally fulfilled.

ROFL
Daniel and Revelation are written in symbolic language!! That is how they are kept closed!!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I find the acrimony and angst on here rather troubling. Why do people argue about where the Kingdom is set up, whether we will live in heaven or on a newly refurbished earth? I get the angst and acrimony in the Calvinism versus Arminianism debate(s), but not in eschatology. We are all looking for the second advent of Jesus, so if the church is raptured before the seven years of great tribulation, in the middle of it, or at the end of it, if there is even a seven years of great tribulation, whether the millennium is literal or symbolic, why argue these? People are missing the point Paul made.

The Master’s Coming

13-14 And regarding the question, friends, that has come up about what happens to those already dead and buried, we don’t want you in the dark any longer. First off, you must not carry on over them like people who have nothing to look forward to, as if the grave were the last word. Since Jesus died and broke loose from the grave, God will most certainly bring back to life those who died in Jesus.
15-18 And then this: We can tell you with complete confidence—we have the Master’s word on it—that when the Master comes again to get us, those of us who are still alive will not get a jump on the dead and leave them behind. In actual fact, they’ll be ahead of us. The Master himself will give the command. Archangel thunder! God’s trumpet blast! He’ll come down from heaven and the dead in Christ will rise—they’ll go first. Then the rest of us who are still alive at the time will be caught up with them into the clouds to meet the Master. Oh, we’ll be walking on air! And then there will be one huge family reunion with the Master. So reassure one another with these words.(1 Thessalonians)

So my friends, let us encourage, reassure each other, that the Lord is coming again, and we will go to be with Him FOREVER. Let us encourage one another of His second advent, not bash each other with these words.

9-11 These were his last words. As they watched, he was taken up and disappeared in a cloud. They stood there, staring into the empty sky. Suddenly two men appeared—in white robes! They said, “You Galileans!—why do you just stand here looking up at an empty sky? This very Jesus who was taken up from among you to heaven will come as certainly—and mysteriously—as he left.”(Acts 1)