Question(s) to those who believe salvation can be lost

[voiceshouting]

NOTE: This thread is NOT about debating OSAS vs non-OSAS.

Now that we got that out of the way, lets dive into it:

When i attend, I attend a pentecostal service. And as many of you probably know, I disagree with some of the stuff they teach, but I will not bring this up because I dont want to cause strife and division, because im not a pastor, im just a regular guy.

However, I have often heard people who say you can lose your salvation quote Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26 as a proof text.

Now lets assume for argument's sake that those verses mean exactly the way those who believe in conditional security believe they mean: WHY do so many pentecostals and others who believe you can lose your salvation ALSO believe you can GET IT BACK?
Because Hebrews 6:4-6 specifically says its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance? So why all this talk for example about David losing his salvation, then REPENTING and getting it back? Which would go against Hebrews 6:4-6?

For those who just want TL;DR here it is: Why do you believe that you can get your salvation BACK after you lost it, in light of verses that you use to prove salvation can be lost, which say its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance (hebr 6:4-6) and no sacrifice remains and they have trampled the blood of Jesus (hebr 10:26ff)?

This is one of Satan's favorite topics. If he can get everyone arguing or at best discussing an issue that cannot be won, then he wins. The verses used in this discussion are a biggie. Moreover, this discussion follows the millions that have discussed it before. It's like dieting, today's diet plans are the same plans written 100 years ago just repackaged with new graphics and a little twist and millions of people buy into it. What I don't understand, is why so many Bible believing Christians draw a line in the sand and defend their interpretation or pick a side. If the doctrine has two sides like a coin, then is it the wrong interpretation. The Bible is a one sided coin. If your interpretation contradicts a single verse from front to back cover of the Bible, then its wrong. It's really that simple, this discussion is just a new hashed out diet plan. It is easier to accept and argue a doctrine taught by your pastor, denomination or favorite commentary, than it is to be a Berean and search the Scripture yourself.

Acts 17:11 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
11 [a]These were also more [b]noble men than they which were at Thessalonica, which received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2 Tim 2:15 1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
15 [a]Study to show thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, dividing the word of truth [b]aright.

I've discovered the once saved always saved (OSAS) doctrine is both true and false. All the verses that are stated as support for a person losing their salvation are true. So are the verses used by the OSAS crowd. It would take a book to explain how to harmonize all the verses for and against OSAS. So, Ill leave you with a question, when does OSAS undeniably become true? Is it when you became saved? Or, is it when you became saved and began working out your salvation thru perseverance and endurance by faith and obedience and stayed in the race until you meet Jesus face to face? At what point OSAS undeniably become true? At what point does the statement that "no man can pluck you out of My hand" become undeniably true?

Cast away your pastor's, denomination's and commentaries interpretation and listen the one and only true teacher of God's Word. He only has one sided coins. If you do this, the truth will set you free and you will be a Berean rethinking everything that today's lukewarm church has ever taught.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nope.
Not anymore than Abraham marrying his sister.

You are attaching meaning other than what is there.
No way could David have been so intimate with God and the Holy Spirit while at the same time being immersed in adultery.

In fact,God told Solomon ( or someone)
"David did righteous all his life and never stumbled, except for the matter with Uriah"

Davids many wives were spot on. Nothing at all wrong

My friend, it is obvious you do not understand what sin is.

That should scare you and everyone who is like you (in fact that is the problem with much in the church)

The pharisee could not figure it out. Thats they they thought they were perfect.

I pray you figure it out man. I pray you do.

 

[Jackson123]

My friend, it is obvious you do not understand what sin is.

That should scare you and everyone who is like you (in fact that is the problem with much in the church)

The pharisee could not figure it out. Thats they they thought they were perfect.

I pray you figure it out man. I pray you do.

So you believe David live in sin till he die and in one of your post you say live in sin different from fall in sin

Is David go to hell because live in sin?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you believe David live in sin till he die and in one of your post you say live in sin different from fall in sin

Is David go to hell because live in sin?

No I said SINNED until he died.

“If we say we HAVE NO SIN, WE DECIEVE OURSELVES. And there IS NO TRUTH IN US.” The Apostle John

 

[Jackson123]

No I said SINNED until he died.

“If we say we HAVE NO SIN, WE DECIEVE OURSELVES. And there IS NO TRUTH IN US.” The Apostle John

So you believe adultery until die go to heaven?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you believe adultery until die go to heaven?

I believe I am done talking to you. Your stuck on sins with these fantasy people who have never lived and will never live (no one does this stuff every day. No one) in order to continue to push a works based gospel

I can not continue this.

Hope you have a happy thanksgiving.

 

[Absolutely]

No I said SINNED until he died.

“If we say we HAVE NO SIN, WE DECIEVE OURSELVES. And there IS NO TRUTH IN US.” The Apostle John

You evidently have no proof of Davids ongoing adultery that you seemingly made up.
Your answer is to say we are all sinners as opposed to a Holy God.

Btw,yes I do understand what the definition of sin is.
I never did see you prove David was in continuous adultery.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You evidently have no proof of Davids ongoing adultery that you seemingly made up.
Your answer is to say we are all sinners as opposed to a Holy God.

Btw,yes I do understand what the definition of sin is.
I never did see you prove David was in continuous adultery.

Maybe thats because you do not know what all possible forms of adultry is

And because of that, I doubt you know the defenition of sin.

 

[Absolutely]

By saying David was non repentant of,and continued in adultery,you are saying that God winked at this alleged sin.

 

[Absolutely]

Maybe thats because you do not know what all possible forms of adultry is

And because of that, I doubt you know the defenition of sin.

No,I am saying his many wives were not adultery.
...and asked you many times to show me any correction from God or the prophet.
All you do is offer modern definitions.

Is stoning murder?
God commanded it.
God is not confined to our definitions

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No,I am saying his many wives were not adultery.
...and asked you many times to show me any correction from God or the prophet.
All you do is offer modern definitions.

Is stoning murder?
God commanded it.
God is not confined to our definitions

And you can say that until your blue in the face, and you would be WRON. The bible states that marriage is one man and one woman period. To go outside of this union is called adultry. Whether you think so or not

Stoning is not murder. It is capitol punishment.

Why you are so free to excuse sin should scare you

 

[Jackson123]

I believe I am done talking to you. Your stuck on sins with these fantasy people who have never lived and will never live (no one does this stuff every day. No one) in order to continue to push a works based gospel

I can not continue this.

Hope you have a happy thanksgiving.

I do not know why you mad at me.

You believe David go to heaven

You believe David poligamy untill the end of his life

You believe poligamy is adultery

So you believe adultery go to heaven

Tell me Why my conclution wrong

 

[Absolutely]

And you can say that until your blue in the face, and you would be WRON. The bible states that marriage is one man and one woman period. To go outside of this union is called adultry. Whether you think so or not

Stoning is not murder. It is capitol punishment.

Why you are so free to excuse sin should scare you

Still waiting for you to show me anywhere in Davids life where he lived and died in adultery.
I can show you God saying he never did wrong except for killing Uriah and taking his wife.
God basically saying you are wrong.
But you believe different.
A adulterer,David,was a man after God's heart.
That is what you are promoting.

 

[Absolutely]

When David was old,he could not get warm.
They took a virgin and put her in the bed with David to warm him.
It is a picture of mat 25.
David was the forerunner of Jesus.
The requirement of sin is innocent blood.
In David's case , his son.
IOW David did commit adultery one time. That sin cost him his son.
It was God,through the prophet,that David got the rebuke.
Nowhere that I know of,did David get any other such correction for his many wives.

Basically we would need to rebuke Jesus for us....his many wives.

 

[Epiales]

Did the man cease to believe Jesus and trust in the atonement Jesus secured for him on the cross??

Does the scripture you post say anything about the mans belief or lack there of??

It talks about his sexual sin.. Which was very serious.. And so It was advised to give that man over to the unbelieving worldly authorities to be executed.. This does not mean the guy was damned to hell.. The verses do not say anything about what He believed or disbelieved about Jesus and the way of salvation..

There has been more then a few people who have committed terrible crimes and who have been executed for their crimes who i believe in the end believed Jesus and trusted in the Atonement Jesus secured for them.. And i believe they will be saved..

That in fact is good news for some who are worried because they think their sins are too bad for them to be forgiven. Mass murderers and the worst of sex offenders can be forgiven through the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ..

It's interesting that when you read the last verse in the chapter that this person was a "wicked" person. Wicked is considered 'unrighteous'. This person was not saved. Thus the reason it states that he MAY BE saved. Not that he was already saved to begin with.

 

[Epiales]

Please tell me about the man in I Corinthians 5 that was delivered unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh. Did he lose his salvation?

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?" (I Corinthians 5:1-6).

Verse 6 would appear to clinch it, seeing as how Paul is saying one rotten apple can spoil the whole bushel.

Read the last verse... I think it tells us exactly if the person was saved or not. He was not, and that it why it is stated previously kick him out so that he MAY BE saved.

 

[Epiales]

Did this guy willfully sin? Paul says he was a Christian. How? Because he was a member of the church - and Paul writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit would clearly have made a distinction if the guy were lost. Paul wasn't fooled.

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (I Corinthians 5:11-13).

The man was a BROTHER . . .

If any man is CALLED a brother... Hmmm.... I can call myself a brother all day long, but does that make me one? I can act like I'm a Christian, just so I can appease my family from irritating me with their preaching. I might even go to Church on holidays to make it even look like I'm a brother. Yeah.... anyone can call and be called a brother; doesn't make them one.

 

[preacher4truth]

Did this guy willfully sin? Paul says he was a Christian. How? Because he was a member of the church - and Paul writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit would clearly have made a distinction if the guy were lost. Paul wasn't fooled.

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (I Corinthians 5:11-13).

The man was a BROTHER . . .

Nope, sorry friend. You're saying he was a brother, and a Christian, yet Paul never said that. The implication is "so-called brother,"

 

[Epiales]

If there is no more sacrifice for willful sin, then willfull sin can never be forgiven. Which means no one would be saved wouldn’t it? Who does not commit willful sin after they are saved?

People fail to mention that all the previous chapters were about SHADOWS of things to come; Mainly Christ being the ultimate sacrifice. They also fail to read this verse in chapter 10:

Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

So clearly, these priests heard of Christ and have been told of His sacrifice, and probably same ones that persecuted the Christians because they wouldn't follow the law. Paul is simply telling them that if you go on sinning willfully, making these sacrifices DAILY, making the same sacrifices, that those sacrifices will not cover your sins. Christ covered them. No matter how many times you sin by sacrificing and following the law, thinking that is what is going to cover your sins, IT WON'T! You will never have your sins covered until you come to the true knowledge of Christ and get away from this law and animal sacrifice.

Now let's read it again in the context:

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Yup, looks about right. There will no longer EVER be another sacrifice for sins. Go ahead and animal sacrifice all you want you Pharisees of the Law. Go ahead and follow the law, we've told you of Christ and HIS sacrifice, and your are sinning, and there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins on these animals anymore. It's CHRIST now!

Simple!

 

[Epiales]

This 100%

Its so ridicilous watching people re-define the word willful.

Ive brought up David's adultery in discussing this with people and some have said to me David's sin wasnt willful, SERIOUSLY? They said David just was tempted and couldnt resist... Well if thats the case NO SIN is ever willful.

I guess if my wife looks fat in her dress and she asks me if the dress makes her look fat?... hmmmmm? Do I lie? WILLFUL SIN!!!

Easy peasy