Can a Christian believe in Noahs flood not being Universal?

[louis]

The sediments were deposited along with the mature organisms. Deposition could have occurred very quickly and in stages. Moreover Psalm 104 mentions how the ‘mountains rose’ and ‘valleys sank’ which has significant meaning. The theory of plate tectonics, although immensely popular, was not developed by geologists, it was proposed by geophysicists to explain earthquakes. It fails to explain mountain building but Psalm 104 dovetails nicely into Genesis 7 for explaining mountains and sedimentation.

Were you not insinuating that the fossils of sea creatures (clams and other mollusks) on the tops of mountains were due to the Noah flood which lasted lasted less than a year?
As I previously stated, it takes several years for clams and other mollusks to reach maturity as indicated in many of the sea creature fossils found on mountain tops, and therefore can not be attributed to a flood lasting less than a year.

 

[ChristisCreator]

Were you not insinuating that the fossils of sea creatures (clams and other mollusks) on the tops of mountains were due to the Noah flood which lasted lasted less than a year?
As I previously stated, it takes several years for clams and other mollusks to reach maturity as indicated in many of the sea creature fossils found on mountain tops, and therefore can not be attributed to a flood lasting less than a year.

If a worldwide flood were to occur right now, then the young would become fossilized in sediment with the old. organism maturity does not measure flood longevity.

 

[Epiales]

The problem is to assume the Hebrew Adam is the first man ever. He wasn't.

Explain your understanding then? Genesis 1 different than Genesis 2? Just curious as I scroll through the thread. Thanks!

 

[jaybird88]

The land of Israel was flooded in the time of Noah. I posted a time-line and so did you, so why the question!

sorry ph where is the time line? pretty sire i didnt post any timeline.

 

[louis]

If a worldwide flood were to occur right now, then the young would become fossilized in sediment with the old. organism maturity does not measure flood longevity.

Yes, young clams and old clams that die would fossilize, but they would not start young and grow and die old and fossilize fully grown on the tops of mountains in less than a 1 year flood.

 

[jaybird88]

The land of Israel was flooded in the time of Noah. I posted a time-line and so did you, so why the question!

i found the time line. so your thinking the flood was about 3200 BC and egypt didnt exist until around 3000 BC? and all the evidence, all the scientist, all the traditions of the egyptians themselves that say egypt is older are just wrong?

 

[ChristisCreator]

Yes, young clams and old clams that die would fossilize, but they would not start young and grow and die old and fossilize fully grown on the tops of mountains in less than a 1 year flood.

Not sure what your point is, all of the earth was covered for about 5 months but some areas could have been covered for years, giving some organisms several life cycles. It’s also possible young and old organisms survived the flood and burial. No one can use the age of organisms with brief life cycles as a criterion for determining flood longevity, there are too many variables and you see all of the variables in floods today.

 

[louis]

Not sure what your point is, all of the earth was covered for about 5 months but some areas could have been covered for years, giving some organisms several life cycles. It’s also possible young and old organisms survived the flood and burial. No one can use the age of organisms with brief life cycles as a criterion for determining flood longevity, there are too many variables and you see all of the variables in floods today.

Even if some low lying areas could have been covered for years, these areas would not include the tops of mountains.

 

[ChristisCreator]

Even if some low lying areas could have been covered for years, these areas would not include the tops of mountains.

We may have to agree to disagree, Psalm 104 ‘the mountains rose the valleys sank’ isostatic adjustments could have taken years, even for the tops of mountains, if they began rising at a low elevation. Sedimentation geology is a popular topic with creation science ministries and I think a person with your interest in the topic would enjoy reading the publications, take care!

 

[PS]

i found the time line. so your thinking the flood was about 3200 BC and egypt didnt exist until around 3000 BC? and all the evidence, all the scientist, all the traditions of the egyptians themselves that say egypt is older are just wrong?

Are you sure your aren't confusing Noah with Moses? Noah and the flood did not have anything to do with Pharaoh.

 

[jaybird88]

Are you sure your aren't confusing Noah with Moses? Noah and the flood did not have anything to do with Pharaoh.

according to the young earthers, Noah and the flood were 3200 BC and there was no egypt at this time.
according to mainstream history egypt had been around for a while at 3200 BC and egypt has no record of a flood at that time.
you would think egypt would have mentioned a flood being as they were living at that time.

 

[PS]

according to the young earthers, Noah and the flood were 3200 BC and there was no egypt at this time.
according to mainstream history egypt had been around for a while at 3200 BC and egypt has no record of a flood at that time.
you would think egypt would have mentioned a flood being as they were living at that time.

The young earthers are more-or-less right about the date of 3200.

Regarding Egypt, "A unified kingdom was founded c. 3150 BC by King Menes"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt#Prehistory_and_Ancient_Egypt

So there is 50 years between the end of the flood and the founding of the Egyptian Kingdom.

At this time the Egyptians were not writing. According to Wicki "the first decipherable sentence written in the Egyptian language dates to the Second Dynasty (28th century BC).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_hieroglyphs

So there is about 400 years between the flood and Egyptian records. I'm not sure if the Egyptians would be interested in what happened to another people 400 years previously? Would you expect to see Egyptian accounts of the flood 400 years after it happened?

 

[jaybird88]

The young earthers are more-or-less right about the date of 3200.

Regarding Egypt, "A unified kingdom was founded c. 3150 BC by King Menes"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt#Prehistory_and_Ancient_Egypt

So there is 50 years between the end of the flood and the founding of the Egyptian Kingdom.

At this time the Egyptians were not writing. According to Wicki "the first decipherable sentence written in the Egyptian language dates to the Second Dynasty (28th century BC).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_hieroglyphs

So there is about 400 years between the flood and Egyptian records. I'm not sure if the Egyptians would be interested in what happened to another people 400 years previously? Would you expect to see Egyptian accounts of the flood 400 years after it happened?

its hard to believe the egyptians were building pyramids only 400 years after the kingdom began. plus there are many today, including myself, that believe they are much older than 2800 BC. you also have the Sphinx which is even older.
i thought egypt was writing around 3500 BC.
im going by memory on most of this but have read quite a bit on the subject.

 

[PS]

its hard to believe the egyptians were building pyramids only 400 years after the kingdom began. plus there are many today, including myself, that believe they are much older than 2800 BC. you also have the Sphinx which is even older.
i thought egypt was writing around 3500 BC.
im going by memory on most of this but have read quite a bit on the subject.

"The oldest known pyramid in Egypt was built around 2630 B.C. at Saqqara, for the third dynasty’s King Djoser."
https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/the-egyptian-pyramids

I don't think Egypt enters biblical history until Joseph was sold into slavery in 1897 B.C.

 

[cv5]

The sediments were deposited along with the mature organisms. Deposition could have occurred very quickly and in stages. Moreover Psalm 104 mentions how the ‘mountains rose’ and ‘valleys sank’ which has significant meaning. The theory of plate tectonics, although immensely popular, was not developed by geologists, it was proposed by geophysicists to explain earthquakes. It fails to explain mountain building but Psalm 104 dovetails nicely into Genesis 7 for explaining mountains and sedimentation.

Spot on Sir. Please see the thread I started called "Hydroplate Theory". Now that is a fully featured theory with excellent predictive abilities that matched the bible account....perfectly. All of the other theories are obsolete IMO.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ry-as-it-relates-to-the-flood-of-noah.181033/

 

[cv5]

The young earthers are more-or-less right about the date of 3200.

Regarding Egypt, "A unified kingdom was founded c. 3150 BC by King Menes"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt#Prehistory_and_Ancient_Egypt

So there is 50 years between the end of the flood and the founding of the Egyptian Kingdom.

At this time the Egyptians were not writing. According to Wicki "the first decipherable sentence written in the Egyptian language dates to the Second Dynasty (28th century BC).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_hieroglyphs

So there is about 400 years between the flood and Egyptian records. I'm not sure if the Egyptians would be interested in what happened to another people 400 years previously? Would you expect to see Egyptian accounts of the flood 400 years after it happened?

Actually...no I believe this is a serious error. The genealogies ARE NOT necessarily indicating a span of time or chronology. Please see the thread I started "Archbishop Ussher's chronology vs genealogies in the Scriptures (Telescoped Genealogies)". Some great stuff in there. Read the "Adam" link which is one biblical interpretation....very interesting (I no longer hold to that), then the "Telescoped Genealogies links (probably correct). The flood did NOT happen according the Usshers chronology. Usshers chronology is very poor scholarship I'm afraid and certainly incorrect.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...the-scriptures-telescoped-genealogies.181012/

 

[ChristisCreator]

Spot on Sir. Please see the thread I started called "Hydroplate Theory". Now that is a fully featured theory with excellent predictive abilities that matched the bible account....perfectly. All of the other theories are obsolete IMO.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ry-as-it-relates-to-the-flood-of-noah.181033/

Hey there yes I am familiar with the hydroplate theory. Before plate tectonics, scientists believed in the 'contraction hypothesis', meaning that Earth shrank at x rate, due to heat loss. Issac Newton was a proponent of this hypothesis but it was abandoned by most in the 1950s or so due to insufficient heat loss. I submit that water/material loss during the Flood, not heat loss, reshaped Earth's surface into what we see today, banded, arcuated mountain chains and islands. Which mechanically speaking this isostatic adjustment better explains arcuated features and doesn't have the friction/mountain building issues seen in hydroplate/catastrophic plate tectonics.

 

[cv5]

"The oldest known pyramid in Egypt was built around 2630 B.C. at Saqqara, for the third dynasty’s King Djoser."
https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/the-egyptian-pyramids

I don't think Egypt enters biblical history until Joseph was sold into slavery in 1897 B.C.

I don't think Egypt enters biblical history until Joseph was sold into slavery in 1897 B.C.

That is an earlier date than most bibles indicate....(which is good!). The Exodus occurred probably right at 1603 BC, so Joseph was sold into slavery WAY back in 2,055 BC approximately (9 + 13 + 430 + 1603).

http://www.setterfield.org/scriptchron.htm#sojourn

Barry is spot on with his dates back to Abraham, except for a 20 year error (Judges was 93 now 113....he has updated his website to correct this error!). These dates are extremely trustworthy.

 

[PS]

Hey there yes I am familiar with the hydroplate theory. Before plate tectonics, scientists believed in the 'contraction hypothesis', meaning that Earth shrank at x rate, due to heat loss. Issac Newton was a proponent of this hypothesis but it was abandoned by most in the 1950s or so due to insufficient heat loss. I submit that water/material loss during the Flood, not heat loss, reshaped Earth's surface into what we see today, banded, arcuated mountain chains and islands. Which mechanically speaking this isostatic adjustment better explains arcuated features and doesn't have the friction/mountain building issues seen in hydroplate/catastrophic plate tectonics.

Mountains: How Are They Formed?
When beholding the sheer size and majesty of mountains, ancient humans could not help but feel that they were standing in the presence of something… godlike. And within the belief systems of many ancient cultures, it was generally felt that mountains were something spiritual – either serving as the home of the Gods, a result of their activity, or a place to get closer to God.

Thanks to modern geology, we now know the true story of how mountains are formed. Simply put, they are the result of tectonic forces or volcanism. But knowing this has not diminished their impressive and awe-inspiring nature. When a geological formation is created through forces that can only be described as titanic, this is to be expected. But just how are mountains formed?

In truth, there are three ways in which mountains are formed, which correspond to the types of mountains in question. These are known as volcanic, fold and block mountains. All of these are the result of plate tectonics, where compressional forces, isostatic uplift and intrusion of igneous matter forces surface rock upward, creating a landform higher than the surrounding features.

Over the course of many million years, these uplifted sections are eroded by the elements – wind, rain, ice and gravity. These gradually wear the surface of the mountains down, cause the surface to be younger than the rocks that form them, and lead to the types of formations and distributions we are familiar with today.

https://www.universetoday.com/29833/how-mountains-are-formed/

 

[cv5]

Mountains: How Are They Formed?
When beholding the sheer size and majesty of mountains, ancient humans could not help but feel that they were standing in the presence of something… godlike. And within the belief systems of many ancient cultures, it was generally felt that mountains were something spiritual – either serving as the home of the Gods, a result of their activity, or a place to get closer to God.

Thanks to modern geology, we now know the true story of how mountains are formed. Simply put, they are the result of tectonic forces or volcanism. But knowing this has not diminished their impressive and awe-inspiring nature. When a geological formation is created through forces that can only be described as titanic, this is to be expected. But just how are mountains formed?

In truth, there are three ways in which mountains are formed, which correspond to the types of mountains in question. These are known as volcanic, fold and block mountains. All of these are the result of plate tectonics, where compressional forces, isostatic uplift and intrusion of igneous matter forces surface rock upward, creating a landform higher than the surrounding features.

Over the course of many million years, these uplifted sections are eroded by the elements – wind, rain, ice and gravity. These gradually wear the surface of the mountains down, cause the surface to be younger than the rocks that form them, and lead to the types of formations and distributions we are familiar with today.

https://www.universetoday.com/29833/how-mountains-are-formed/

Thanks to modern geology, we now know the true story of how mountains are formed. Simply put, they are the result of tectonic forces or volcanism.

Completely utterly totally incorrect. All theories predicated by millions of year are utterly incorrect.
The present world is the result of the Flood....without a doubt. Rapid catastrophism. No doubt.

Never....ever....post the Standard Model rubbish. You are deceived and deceiving others on this board.