Calvinism Critiqued
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Much like what Charles Spurgeon said concerning John Calvins' views concerning election, and predestination, and why he himself held to such "theology?" "I couldn't help it!"
And, neither can I! I didn't come into CC subscribing to, let alone endorsing Calvin, nor the "tenets" of T.U.L.I.P.!
Know what? I still don't! Having said this however? As I strive onwards in the "perfecting", or "maturing" of my faith in God, and in Christ Jesus, our Lord and Savior? I have come to the conclusion, that, like Paul stated in Romans 8:34 - "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who ALSO maketh intercession for us."
Paul could "see" this distinction, between the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ, WITHIN HIMSELF! As the words of his testimony confirms in verse 9! "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
The question has to be asked: Now why would Paul state such a marked "distinction" BETWEEN the Father, and His only begotten, IF, there WASN'T one?!
And, again, in verse 11: "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you (and it is! Looking FOR "signs OF Life!"), he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also MAKE ALIVE your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Paul again, making a distinction from the GIVER of His "gift of the Holy Spirit", FROM the "Gift of the Holy Spirit" itself!
But, anyways, as I was saying before, in my faith being perfected, or maturing? I "see" many SIMILARITIES to these (how can I say) "observations", that John Calvin seen. As well as Charles Spurgeon!
And, I am not trying to convert ANYONE! Only one I can truly convert, is myself! Yet? I KNOW whom I am believing! And, am (and still being) pursuaded, in His KEEPING that which is committed UNTO Him? AGAINST that day! (oughta be a song!
)
And, neither can I! I didn't come into CC subscribing to, let alone endorsing Calvin, nor the "tenets" of T.U.L.I.P.!
Know what? I still don't! Having said this however? As I strive onwards in the "perfecting", or "maturing" of my faith in God, and in Christ Jesus, our Lord and Savior? I have come to the conclusion, that, like Paul stated in Romans 8:34 - "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who ALSO maketh intercession for us."
Paul could "see" this distinction, between the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ, WITHIN HIMSELF! As the words of his testimony confirms in verse 9! "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
The question has to be asked: Now why would Paul state such a marked "distinction" BETWEEN the Father, and His only begotten, IF, there WASN'T one?!
And, again, in verse 11: "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you (and it is! Looking FOR "signs OF Life!"), he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also MAKE ALIVE your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Paul again, making a distinction from the GIVER of His "gift of the Holy Spirit", FROM the "Gift of the Holy Spirit" itself!
But, anyways, as I was saying before, in my faith being perfected, or maturing? I "see" many SIMILARITIES to these (how can I say) "observations", that John Calvin seen. As well as Charles Spurgeon!
And, I am not trying to convert ANYONE! Only one I can truly convert, is myself! Yet? I KNOW whom I am believing! And, am (and still being) pursuaded, in His KEEPING that which is committed UNTO Him? AGAINST that day! (oughta be a song!
)EXCERPT:
John Calvin’s interpretation of the Bible justified the murder of his theological opponents.
Jesus’ teaching to “love your enemies” didn’t stop Calvin from killing them. Paul’s instructions for dealing with people who theologically disagree with you were ignored: “A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth” (2 Timothy 2:24-25). Calvin authorized beheadings, death by fire, and torture rather than exercise patience and kindness with competing theologians. His enforcement of biblical doctrines looked more like ISIS than Jesus.
FOUND HERE:
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...ified-it/RK=2/RS=d1lQtjOEXv3VWJgNozJ46UC4XdE-
John Calvin’s interpretation of the Bible justified the murder of his theological opponents.
Jesus’ teaching to “love your enemies” didn’t stop Calvin from killing them. Paul’s instructions for dealing with people who theologically disagree with you were ignored: “A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth” (2 Timothy 2:24-25). Calvin authorized beheadings, death by fire, and torture rather than exercise patience and kindness with competing theologians. His enforcement of biblical doctrines looked more like ISIS than Jesus.
FOUND HERE:
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...ified-it/RK=2/RS=d1lQtjOEXv3VWJgNozJ46UC4XdE-
excerpt:
It baffles the mind and often borders on the bizarre to see how Calvinists who call themselves loving and obedient sheep and followers of Jesus Christ fight tooth and nail to defend their hero, the murderer and serial killer – JOHN CALVIN (French: Jean Calvin, born Jehan Cauvin: 10 July 1509 – 27 May 1564).
FOUND HERE;
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...-calvin//RK=2/RS=lfN114Bk9.atPBFmcl.ZRc.kVjU-
It baffles the mind and often borders on the bizarre to see how Calvinists who call themselves loving and obedient sheep and followers of Jesus Christ fight tooth and nail to defend their hero, the murderer and serial killer – JOHN CALVIN (French: Jean Calvin, born Jehan Cauvin: 10 July 1509 – 27 May 1564).
FOUND HERE;
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...-calvin//RK=2/RS=lfN114Bk9.atPBFmcl.ZRc.kVjU-
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I agree the Calvin debates have really ramped up again and they swing with a pretty broad foot in attempts to stomp out dissenters
in times past, there have been some truly nasty nasty threads regarding this topic that resulted in reported posts and I suspect some warnings from the mods
I have to question why it is becoming so nasty once again
there is a noticeable air of mocking others in certain posts
anyway, always best not to resort to the same tactics but we should certainly be able to discuss without being told we are not saved and so on, as has been done in the past
as I have said before, Calvin...nor any other human for that matter...ever saved anyone
Only Jesus does that
in times past, there have been some truly nasty nasty threads regarding this topic that resulted in reported posts and I suspect some warnings from the mods
I have to question why it is becoming so nasty once again
there is a noticeable air of mocking others in certain posts
anyway, always best not to resort to the same tactics but we should certainly be able to discuss without being told we are not saved and so on, as has been done in the past
as I have said before, Calvin...nor any other human for that matter...ever saved anyone
Only Jesus does that
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Not to mock you or anything, But I have to wonder if you forgot. Many people who call themselves loving and followers jesus christ fight tooth and nail to defend Saul of Tarsus, Who not only killed many people. But admitted he was the chief sinner. And used the bible to excuse his sin...
In fact. If one looks at many of our fathers (Abraham, David, Moses) we will see, they were not squeeky clean people either.
If we all stopped following people just because they commited some prety serious sins, We would have next to no one to follow..(we are not innocent ourselves)
I know you have me on ignore. But something had to be said, and I just wish you would think bfore you start attacking like you are doing
In fact. If one looks at many of our fathers (Abraham, David, Moses) we will see, they were not squeeky clean people either.
If we all stopped following people just because they commited some prety serious sins, We would have next to no one to follow..(we are not innocent ourselves)
I know you have me on ignore. But something had to be said, and I just wish you would think bfore you start attacking like you are doing
P
Our total salvation, our total redemption, hinges on one thing, the faithfulness of God.
That is our hope our very foundation. Which is found in the Christ.
Our very own king had become flesh and lived among us to prove that point.
For yet while we were sinners he died for us......all have sinned .......but the Christ had come to save.
Who instructed God on how he should do this? Or even why or who? Who are we to esteem ourselves above what we are?
God in the first days saved Adam and Eve by first offering to cover their sin with coats of skin. Why?? To continue educating his son on the path he should go. Not for a moment was he surprised on what had happened but we should look at the immediate solution that God provided.
That is our hope our very foundation. Which is found in the Christ.
Our very own king had become flesh and lived among us to prove that point.
For yet while we were sinners he died for us......all have sinned .......but the Christ had come to save.
Who instructed God on how he should do this? Or even why or who? Who are we to esteem ourselves above what we are?
God in the first days saved Adam and Eve by first offering to cover their sin with coats of skin. Why?? To continue educating his son on the path he should go. Not for a moment was he surprised on what had happened but we should look at the immediate solution that God provided.
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I agree. Luke proved after 30 yrs the story remained the same. But now you have people coming in disecting the word of God.
To look for something that isn't there.
The book of job shows us that his friends did the same thing. No comfort in knowing "if you are one of the elect " then everything will be all right.
I take comfort in knowing that all of it is going as God planned. Knowing the end from the beginning that he left no stone unturned to deliver all of mankind from the grip of sin. If they choose to be saved.
To look for something that isn't there.
The book of job shows us that his friends did the same thing. No comfort in knowing "if you are one of the elect " then everything will be all right.
I take comfort in knowing that all of it is going as God planned. Knowing the end from the beginning that he left no stone unturned to deliver all of mankind from the grip of sin. If they choose to be saved.
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It’s more than a bit depressing that so close to a time that many chose to remember the birth of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ that we step down and act like the folks we try to evangelize. We fail to see our fellow believers as brother and sister in Christ. Instead we decide to show our superiority to the other brother by throwing insults.
May our Lord have mercy on us all .
I love all you folks here even those that I disagree with . I have in the past thrown a barb or two to my shame . Forgive me please . If we disagree let’s be civil. There is a real person on the other side .
What’s really depressing is these are precise type of arguments that keep folks away from the truth of our Lord.
Think about it . Look at what we have posted . What will a seeker find ? Are we going to be recognized as being Christ’s by our love for one another?
Blessings
A brother in Christ
Bill
May our Lord have mercy on us all .
I love all you folks here even those that I disagree with . I have in the past thrown a barb or two to my shame . Forgive me please . If we disagree let’s be civil. There is a real person on the other side .
What’s really depressing is these are precise type of arguments that keep folks away from the truth of our Lord.
Think about it . Look at what we have posted . What will a seeker find ? Are we going to be recognized as being Christ’s by our love for one another?
Blessings
A brother in Christ
Bill
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That's not predestination, that is foreknowing.............funny how folks keep forgetting that part
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