I don't know the history of it, but that is interesting. I was thinking of the issue of whether local churches should work together on missions societies, but I think something like that was a disagreement in the Restoration Movement associated with Campbell, maybe when he wasn't around anymore, or they weren't around anymore. I don't know.
Hardshell & Primitive Baptist "Conditional Time Salvation" Warning
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Read this. It’s the Black Rock address of 1832, from Black Rock, Maryland.
http://baptiststudiesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/black-rock-address.pdf
http://baptiststudiesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/black-rock-address.pdf
So you know what I must ask you? The same things? Were you an eyewitness of myself? There is no way you came up with pure PB teaching having never heard of it before. I was born in the morning, just not this morning. 
I am only calling you out for bearing false witness and saying what I believe when attempts were made to correct you.
Come on, man! First off, this isn't Biblical methodology or ways of God these days, he did this with Paul, apostles and prophets. Instead he has equipped the church for this and we do learn from man, something you loathe at least to the point of presenting yourself as having received special personal revelation.
Where did you go to church when you say Scripture contradicted themselves in those then held beliefs? Something isn't adding up right bro, there is more to it. It's not like you're an apostle and received direct revelation and that "somehow" you used PB catch phrases and terminology after receiving it.
Here is another thing. You say the so-called great commission was given to the apostles and fulfilled and was for them. Right?
This is PB teaching though. Yet you claim the exhortation of Christ that the Spirit would lead them into all truth, making that truth applicable to yourself, correct? But that is an inconsistent hermeneutic -- it is cherry picking Scripture. How so? Through the PB lens brother because they teach the exact same thing! You cannot lay claim to one thing given them then reject the other, and the reason you reject the one and not the other is because it is PB indoctrination coming through.
I'm saying no way. Not trying to offend, I just do not buy it -- you heard something and went with it. You did not receive a Pauline like special revelation you were reading materials, seeing it on the web, you got it somewhere.
This too, there is contradiction in your understanding, these have been addressed, so you have not harmonized all of Scripture which tells me that from the get go you got it all from PB's because that too is one of their cliches.
I've not lied about you or your beliefs. But, you want me to apologize? Brother, I have not misrepresented one belief of the PB's. I am a sinner, yes, for sure, but that isn't what I am doing here in this thread.
I am only calling you out for bearing false witness and saying what I believe when attempts were made to correct you.
Come on, man! First off, this isn't Biblical methodology or ways of God these days, he did this with Paul, apostles and prophets. Instead he has equipped the church for this and we do learn from man, something you loathe at least to the point of presenting yourself as having received special personal revelation.
Where did you go to church when you say Scripture contradicted themselves in those then held beliefs? Something isn't adding up right bro, there is more to it. It's not like you're an apostle and received direct revelation and that "somehow" you used PB catch phrases and terminology after receiving it.
Here is another thing. You say the so-called great commission was given to the apostles and fulfilled and was for them. Right?
This is PB teaching though. Yet you claim the exhortation of Christ that the Spirit would lead them into all truth, making that truth applicable to yourself, correct? But that is an inconsistent hermeneutic -- it is cherry picking Scripture. How so? Through the PB lens brother because they teach the exact same thing! You cannot lay claim to one thing given them then reject the other, and the reason you reject the one and not the other is because it is PB indoctrination coming through.
I'm saying no way. Not trying to offend, I just do not buy it -- you heard something and went with it. You did not receive a Pauline like special revelation you were reading materials, seeing it on the web, you got it somewhere.
This too, there is contradiction in your understanding, these have been addressed, so you have not harmonized all of Scripture which tells me that from the get go you got it all from PB's because that too is one of their cliches.
I've not lied about you or your beliefs. But, you want me to apologize? Brother, I have not misrepresented one belief of the PB's. I am a sinner, yes, for sure, but that isn't what I am doing here in this thread.
See you're not following along brother.
I never said you made that statement.
Please reread what was stated. I'm not sure how you concluded that I claimed you said that? Come on brother, I was quite clear. Read it again?
Please, get on the right page. I'm not sure if you're being forthcoming here as it is beyond me how you think I claimed you said it. Are you just trying anything to make it look like I've falsely accused you?
I never said you made that statement.
Please reread what was stated. I'm not sure how you concluded that I claimed you said that? Come on brother, I was quite clear. Read it again?
Please, get on the right page. I'm not sure if you're being forthcoming here as it is beyond me how you think I claimed you said it. Are you just trying anything to make it look like I've falsely accused you?
Sorry, I thought I had answered it. All of those that God gave to his Son to die for, according to what Jesus said, is that he would not lose any of them, but would raise the up at the last day. Yes, if he saved them on the cross, which he did, they will all be in heaven with him. Does that answer your question?
I was looking over the part about missions societies. It sounds like some of the concerns were about the situation in their time. Why did he consider the members of missions societies to be unregenerate? Other concerns were about there being a 'president' of the missions society and other lofty titles. He seemed in favor of local churches sending out missionaries and embraced what we now refer to as 'the great commission' as being for the churches.
Anyway, I heard of a similar contraversy in congregations that go by 'churches of Christ' from someone in that movement, but given the time period, they could have been involved in pretty much the same debate as the primitive Baptists. Was there any direct influence of primitive Baptists on the Campbells? Many of those congregations do not have musical instruments either.
Anyway, I heard of a similar contraversy in congregations that go by 'churches of Christ' from someone in that movement, but given the time period, they could have been involved in pretty much the same debate as the primitive Baptists. Was there any direct influence of primitive Baptists on the Campbells? Many of those congregations do not have musical instruments either.
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And we also agree with this. Regeneration also involves the imparting of faith and repentance to that individual at the very moment one is regenerated.
Yes!! Precisely!! We agree with this! Hallelujah! Amen!
Now, seeing we are justified by faith as Romans 5:1 testifies to, that means people are justified by faith, declared righteous before God by this very faith gifted to them via regeneration. Carry that over to Romans 10:17 "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." When one is regenerated by God, He does this via His word. So, no one is regenerated and then later on hears the gospel and is saved.
No he is not my friend.
Yes!! Precisely!! We agree with this! Hallelujah! Amen!
Now, seeing we are justified by faith as Romans 5:1 testifies to, that means people are justified by faith, declared righteous before God by this very faith gifted to them via regeneration. Carry that over to Romans 10:17 "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." When one is regenerated by God, He does this via His word. So, no one is regenerated and then later on hears the gospel and is saved.
No he is not my friend.
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Nope, not on here. You said repentance and faith are works of man so therefore the Gospel's salvation cannot be eternal. That was your main argument against eternal salvation via the Gospel and why it had to be changed from this to a time salvation since you say it was earned by works. Your beliefs as stated on here.
Your'e not being honest and now you're attempting to change your teaching and rewrite the narrative.
And now you're trying to blame it on me.
Nice try that but not happening.
Anyone on here knows that my beliefs are these two are works of God, not man, and that I've combated your error over and over again with this statement because you've been teaching contrary to this.
I never claimed 1 Corinthians 2:14 said anything about that.
Are you ready to start telling the truth are you going to stay on your path of false accusations and deceit?
Your'e not being honest and now you're attempting to change your teaching and rewrite the narrative.
And now you're trying to blame it on me.
Nice try that but not happening.
Anyone on here knows that my beliefs are these two are works of God, not man, and that I've combated your error over and over again with this statement because you've been teaching contrary to this.
I never claimed 1 Corinthians 2:14 said anything about that.
Are you ready to start telling the truth are you going to stay on your path of false accusations and deceit?
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This has not been his belief, he's trying to wiggle his way out of the death blow given to his false gospel bro. Think it through.
Um...
Bro? He's drawing you in while changing his story since I've proven his false gospel foundation is crumbling. He has not taught this all along.
He denies justification by faith being a part of eternal salvation bro. Therefore his understanding of justification via the Gospel is false.
Correct, never happened.
Um...
Bro? He's drawing you in while changing his story since I've proven his false gospel foundation is crumbling. He has not taught this all along.
He denies justification by faith being a part of eternal salvation bro. Therefore his understanding of justification via the Gospel is false.
Correct, never happened.
Well, to be honest, he has been all over the place, it is hard to pin down what he believes. He said that is what he believes and that is what we believe. I am going where he is leading and every place he takes me, I show him his error(s).
Man, I am a cool as the center seed of a cucumber and I do not need to simma down.<-----Look at my cool shades, my friend.
And everywhere he takes me, I follow him and show him his error(s). It is like shooting a whale in a barrel.
I agree with this, too. I am just taking him everywhere he leads me, I follow him and show him his error(s).
Man, I am a cool as the center seed of a cucumber and I do not need to simma down.
<-----Look at my cool shades, my friend. And everywhere he takes me, I follow him and show him his error(s). It is like shooting a whale in a barrel.
I agree with this, too. I am just taking him everywhere he leads me, I follow him and show him his error(s).
This is like a bad take on "Where He Leads Me I will Follow."
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So, then you are in agreement with me that the natural man has the ability to hear the gospel when he is regenerated and not before he is regenerated. Regeneration is done by the grace of God which is the actuality of the covenant salvation which was accomplished on the cross. Regeneration being the instrument of bringing to fruition of the miracle of eternal salvation even though having the ability to believe in the gospel happens at the same time. Eternal salvation is by the sovereign grace of God without the actions of man.
The natural man is a man who considers the things of God foolish and he can not understand them because they are spiritually discerned. I agree with you here.
Now, you said faith and repentance are given when one is regenerated. When one is given faith, they are declared righteous before God, fully justified. And seeing that faith is a fruit of the Spirit, as Galatians 5:22 clearly states, and faith come from hearing the gospel of Jesus, as Romans 10:17 says, no one is regenerate outside the proclamation of the gospel.
Now, you said faith and repentance are given when one is regenerated. When one is given faith, they are declared righteous before God, fully justified. And seeing that faith is a fruit of the Spirit, as Galatians 5:22 clearly states, and faith come from hearing the gospel of Jesus, as Romans 10:17 says, no one is regenerate outside the proclamation of the gospel.
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