Things to Consider Before Attempting to Correct the King James Bible

[kohelet]

Yes I am a Calvinist, though that has nothing to do with what we are discussing my friend. I am a Sola Scriptura guy, and I believe the scriptures are all we need to govern our lives by and that is the vehicle by which God's Spirit travels. He does not have to speak another word to us as He has said all He needed to when the canon of scripture was closed.

Here is what I mean. You say that the Spirit speaks outside of the word of God, the scriptures. Then that makes either Him, or the scriptures, an addendum. From Genesis 1:1--------->Revelation 22:21, we have all we need my friend.

You said He testifies with our spirit that we are the sons of God(Romans 8:16). However, we are also to test the spirits to see if they are of(from) God(1 John 4:1). Here is why I am repeating verses that both of us have already used earlier. How can we know it is God's Spirit testifying with our spirit? Look at people in remote areas who have never had a bible in their hand, never heard the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ. They know that God exists, yet they attribute what they know of Him to some idol. As Apostle Paul wrote "and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures"(Romans 1:23). They suppress the truth in their unrighteousness(Romans 1:18), because they take what they see and attribute its existence to some sort of statue. They do not know the Spirit of God. Why do I say this? They do not know the word of God. So, they do not know that the spirits that have caused them to commit idolatry are not from God and they can not test them. We can know it is God's Spirit that testifies with our spirit because we have the word of God to live by.

The Spirit goes no further than the word of God. He brings the word of God to our memory many times. Sometimes I may be struggling over something when all of a sudden a verse will 'pop' into my mind. That is how God's Spirit speaks to us today.

Sackcloth, what you say is absolutely right. The only difficulty I have is that you're avoiding what the Scripture says, for example, in Romans 8:16 (nothing about Scripture there) and what the Holy Spirit said to Paul through Agabus - nothing about Him speaking through Scripture there, either. I am also sola scriptura - but all of Scripture, not only the bits we like.

I suggest you read Wayne Grudem in his Systematic Theology (and elsewhere) on this, a Calvinist and sola scripturist (oh, I just made up a word) through and through.

 

[kohelet]

I apologize, Andrew1, we've completely left your thread. It was the other guys, honest, and they led me off the straight and narrow.

 

[kohelet]

We are everywhere, are you only living in Australia now or were you born there?

Oh, and Hevosmies, I love your language - but it doesn't always like me back.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Sackcloth, what you say is absolutely right. The only difficulty I have is that you're avoiding what the Scripture says, for example, in Romans 8:16 (nothing about Scripture there) and what the Holy Spirit said to Paul through Agabus - nothing about Him speaking through Scripture there, either. I am also sola scriptura - but all of Scripture, not only the bits we like.

I suggest you read Wayne Grudem in his Systematic Theology (and elsewhere) on this, a Calvinist and sola scripturist (oh, I just made up a word) through and through.

The Greek word for testifies/bears witness in Romans 8:16...


συμμαρτυρέω (symmartyreō)

to testify or bear witness together with another, confirm, add testimony, Rom. 2:15; 8:16; 9:1

To say that the Spirit literally speaks with our spirit is quite the stretch my friend. The Spirit of God confirms our spirit, that we are, indeed, the children of God. That is not to be taken that He literally speaks outside of God's holy writ.

The bible is all we need, as that is what God left for us to speak to Him and Him to us.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Sackcloth, what you say is absolutely right. The only difficulty I have is that you're avoiding what the Scripture says, for example, in Romans 8:16 (nothing about Scripture there) and what the Holy Spirit said to Paul through Agabus - nothing about Him speaking through Scripture there, either. I am also sola scriptura - but all of Scripture, not only the bits we like.

I suggest you read Wayne Grudem in his Systematic Theology (and elsewhere) on this, a Calvinist and sola scripturist (oh, I just made up a word) through and through.

What Agabus did was before the canon of scripture was closed. God spoke through Baalam's donkey. Should we seek to hear a word from a Jack or Jenny? King Saul prophesied through the Spirit, but when he died, he eternal state looks rather bad, but I will not judge his eternal state, as that is above my pay grade.

 

[kohelet]

The Greek word for testifies/bears witness in Romans 8:16...


συμμαρτυρέω (symmartyreō)

to testify or bear witness together with another, confirm, add testimony, Rom. 2:15; 8:16; 9:1

To say that the Spirit literally speaks with our spirit is quite the stretch my friend. The Spirit of God confirms our spirit, that we are, indeed, the children of God. That is not to be taken that He literally speaks outside of God's holy writ.

The bible is all we need, as that is what God left for us to speak to Him and Him to us.

I'm not sure that I said 'the Spirit literally speaks with our spirit', Sackcloth, did I? The definitions you have provided don't contradict what I wrote at all. Verses you quote here also speak of our conscience bearing witness. Obviously, our spirits don't speak literally. I'd be careful that I don't bear false witness, (ψευδομαρτυρέω, if you're interested) if I were you.

The people who have most helped me understand these things are Reformed scholars. Perhaps you should take up your argument with them.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I'm not sure that I said 'the Spirit literally speaks with our spirit', Sackcloth, did I? The definitions you have provided don't contradict what I wrote at all. Verses you quote here also speak of our conscience bearing witness. Obviously, our spirits don't speak literally. I'd be careful that I don't bear false witness, (ψευδομαρτυρέω, if you're interested) if I were you.

The people who have most helped me understand these things are Reformed scholars. Perhaps you should take up your argument with them.

If I mistook your stance, please forgive me my friend. I did not mean to do that.

How would you define the way the Spirit speaks with us outside of the scriptures?

 

[kohelet]

What Agabus did was before the canon of scripture was closed. God spoke through Baalam's donkey. Should we seek to hear a word from a Jack or Jenny? King Saul prophesied through the Spirit, but when he died, he eternal state looks rather bad, but I will not judge his eternal state, as that is above my pay grade.

While I mightn't share your view, Sackcloth, I'll defend to the nth degree your right to hold it. You'd do well to read Wayne Grudem on this though.

 

[preacher4truth]

You're the one blinded... I don't need to go to a university, get a degree in mans theology, sit and dissect the word for days and day. I just have to know God. God is not, does not, and will never be or do evil. Simple as that. I don't need to look at dictionaries or have others tell me. That is not a character of my God, and if your God is evil, I would suggest coming over to mine

And ur'e being silly.. hissy fits? ROFL! You're the one that has attacked my character... just review your posts. You're just being silly and wanting to create an issue here, and I see no issue.. EVIL is the wrong word that describes my God.

It's sad that you continue to misrepresent me and put words in my mouth. It is apparent you won't deal in either truthful statements nor will you deal with the reasoned arguments or the texts of Scripture provided and outright reject them.

Since you desire to continue your emotional hissy fits, dishonesty, misrepresenting my words and literally putting things on me I've never stated it's best to leave off engaging you in dialog. Perhaps God will bring you to repentance, 2 Peter 3:9 because as of now you're not showing a lifestyle of repentance.

 

[kohelet]

If I mistook your stance, please forgive me my friend. I did not mean to do that.

How would you define the way the Spirit speaks with us outside of the scriptures?

That's quite okay, Sackcloth, no worries. Easily done.
Well, how does your conscience 'speak' to you? It 'testifies or bears witness together with us' that we are doing the right or wrong thing, right?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

That's quite okay, Sackcloth, no worries. Easily done.
Well, how does your conscience 'speak' to you? It 'testifies or bears witness together with us' that we are doing the right or wrong thing, right?

Yes, but we must not misconstrue that with the Spirit speaking outside of the word of God, either.

 

[kohelet]

Yes, but we must not misconstrue that with the Spirit speaking outside of the word of God, either.

No, that's right. I'm assuming we know the difference between what pleases God and what displeases Him though.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

No, that's right. I'm assuming we know the difference between what pleases God and what displeases Him though.

Faith.(Hebrews 11:6)

 

[Sherril]

I am fond of the KJV now through my life i have at times used other versions, yet i see the diff. in the meanings at times and even taking away from the bible a whole verse...it does happen...So dear brothers and sisters i enjoy the KJV...also i have memorized alot of the verses from that KJV since i was a child...so i do enjoy it...and have not found issue with it...praise God he is good....love in Christ Sherril...

 

[kohelet]

I am fond of the KJV now through my life i have at times used other versions, yet i see the diff. in the meanings at times and even taking away from the bible a whole verse...it does happen...So dear brothers and sisters i enjoy the KJV...also i have memorized alot of the verses from that KJV since i was a child...so i do enjoy it...and have not found issue with it...praise God he is good....love in Christ Sherril...

Thank you, Sherril, for steering us back to the topic! At last!

 

[kohelet]

I am fond of the KJV now through my life i have at times used other versions, yet i see the diff. in the meanings at times and even taking away from the bible a whole verse...it does happen...So dear brothers and sisters i enjoy the KJV...also i have memorized alot of the verses from that KJV since i was a child...so i do enjoy it...and have not found issue with it...praise God he is good....love in Christ Sherril...

The verses that you say are missing, Sherril, are in fact kind of there. I like the KJV though. It's great literature. Older and therefore more reliable Greek manuscripts have been discovered since the KJV was written, though. For me, that's a good reason to use some of the more modern versions. That's just me though. To each his (or her) own.

 

[John146]

John146 could you adress this? Why doesnt God extinguish evil since He can?

Do you also believe it has a purpose and reason?

I would think evil is a result from the fall of Adam. If Adam had not sinned, only good would exist for man, but since Adam chose to sin, evil, destruction came upon man.

 

[Sherril]

God give us your wisdom.....love in Christ Sherril..

 

[Sherril]

The verses that you say are missing, Sherril, are in fact kind of there. I like the KJV though. It's great literature. Older and therefore more reliable Greek manuscripts have been discovered since the KJV was written, though. For me, that's a good reason to use some of the more modern versions. That's just me though. To each his (or her) own.

when i see the changes in Gods word it does concern me i am greatly concerned that the evil one has come in like a Trojan horse through the back door to water down Gods word...His written word...the devil does not play fair..love in Christ Sherril..

 

[Sherril]

May i ask about this fellows and gals...it appears alot diff....can you share why it has such a variance ?....love in Christ Sherril........(KJV) Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.)
NIV>>>>
Ephraim surrounds Me with lies
And the house of Israel with deceit;
Judah is also unruly against God,
Even against the Holy One who is faithful.
NASB>>>>Ephraim surrounds Me with lies
And the house of Israel with deceit;
Judah is also unruly against God,
Even against the Holy One who is faithful.