Need clarity regarding this Predestination thing and something related to an election?

[pottersclay]

Ohh... any Sciptural reference would be good... Because i have hurt myself brutally by trusting just anyone's views or watching YouTube.

John 6 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day

This is a very controversial scripture...a word study on the word draw....could mean two things. Drag or compel.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Wrong my friend.

In your belief of the scriptures, will a non regenerated person enter into heaven?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

In your belief of the scriptures, will a non regenerated person enter into heaven?

No

 

[preacher4truth]

John 6 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day

This is a very controversial scripture...a word study on the word draw....could mean two things. Drag or compel.

One cool thing about the text you've shared is that all who are drawn will also be raised up. It is a great comfort. It also denies the false notion that John 12:32 includes all men who have ever lived.

 

[Hevosmies]

Why?

Abraham Believed God and it was acredited to him as righteousness.

God chose Abraham because when he ave abraham a choice, Abraham said yes.

God could have asked other people to do this, and they said no. But we will never know if that happened or not.



He did not pick a nation, He created one. Huge difference


Yes we do know. He loved them because he created them. He called them out from other nations. And made them specific promises. To make them a great nation. To bring about the savior. And he gave them land, and promised to be their God. And through THEN he woudl prove to ALL nations that he is the one true God (by the way, something that has yet to happen, except in minor circumstances, because Israel always rebelled)



So God did not Send Jonah to the ninevites? (Fierce enemies of Israel) How do you now he did not send some to thers and we are just not shown I would be careful about making statements which can not be proven.

I said RARELY, not that He never did first of all.

Second God didnt choose because Abraham said yes???
The story begins out of the blue in Genesis where God just calls Abraham, nothing is written about what happened or didn't happen prior to it.

 

[Endoscopy]

What does the Bible mean when it says... '' the elect''... Who are these?
And if salvation is for all and Jesus died for all.. Why is there an elect..?..

There are 2 opposed views of this. God knew the end from the beginning. Codes in the Bible prove this. In the original language of the Torah taking a letter and counting forward or backward at an interval a message can be found. Rabbis first found them in the opening verses of the Torah books. The MIT version in Israel had a group of software students get together and create a piece of software that would automatically search texts to find them. The found among other items the names and birth and death dates of several 20 century men. Thus proving the awesome power of God's foreknowledge and ability to affect the exact creation of the Bible.

Calvinism believes God looked forward and touches individuals causing them to become believers. Armenians believe God just foreknew who would freely choose him.

The crux of the matter is a verse that states in KJV "the carnal mind is enmity against God". Can man himself overcome this or does God have to enable this change to occur.

 

[Hevosmies]

One cool thing about the text you've shared is that all who are drawn will also be raised up. It is a great comfort. It also denies the false notion that John 12:32 includes all men who have ever lived.

Arminians often say that draw means compel or "woo" them in. But what about the will be raised up part? Can someone answer that?

Maybe they would say that all will be resurrected, but if you say no you are raised up to the lake of fire?

Here is something to ease the tension, an apologetic class for arminians:

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Arminians often say that draw means compel or "woo" them in. But what about the will be raised up part? Can someone answer that?

Maybe they would say that all will be resurrected, but if you say no you are raised up to the lake of fire?

Here is something to ease the tension, an apologetic class for arminians:

 

[pottersclay]

As long as people are clear that R. C. Sproul holds to Reformed Theology, which teaches *Unconditional Election* -- that God elects some for salvation and others for damnation. But that is not what the Bible teaches.

*Upon what condition did God elect sinners to salvation? Was your positive choice for the gospel the basis for your election before the foundation of the world? Was God’s choice based on your foreseen choice? Simply put, did God choose you because you first chose Him? Would God be unfair if He chose some to salvation and not others? In this message, Dr. Sproul helps us understand this hard, yet biblical doctrine as he looks at “Unconditional Election.”*

In the teaching I recommended he does not give his belief but just the views from all sides. Fully explaining the history of the doctrine and how conclusions were made.

God does not elect to damnation....there are the justified and the UN justified.
God being God is not under any law or rule to extend mercy or forgiveness.....as the scripture says....I will have mercy on those I choose.
Therefore God chooses to have mercy and forgiveness. Which is the core of the gospel message.

 

[Endoscopy]

Arminians often say that draw means compel or "woo" them in. But what about the will be raised up part? Can someone answer that?

Maybe they would say that all will be resurrected, but if you say no you are raised up to the lake of fire?

Here is something to ease the tension, an apologetic class for arminians:

ROFL
A YouTube video about refuting Calvinism. I have researched the Calvinism and Arminianism and found both to be quite Biblical. The early elders created the creeds as what a Christian must believe and every other Biblical issue was to agree to disagree. For those like you that ignore this I have the following file I post for those like you. Refute the Biblical Defense of Calvinism and Arminianism at the end of this.
_________
Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Armenian 5 points

Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace

For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,

https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html

Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages

There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.

Calvinism Armenianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate

Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm

Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/

 

[pottersclay]

ROFL
A YouTube video about refuting Calvinism. I have researched the Calvinism and Arminianism and found both to be quite Biblical. The early elders created the creeds as what a Christian must believe and every other Biblical issue was to agree to disagree. For those like you that ignore this I have the following file I post for those like you. Refute the Biblical Defense of Calvinism and Arminianism at the end of this.
_________
Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Armenian 5 points

Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace

For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,

https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html

Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages

There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.

Calvinism Armenianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate

Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm

Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/

There are more than just two sides....there's about 8..😁😁

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Jesus said in the Great Commission to go into all nations and preach the gospel to everyone. However, not everyone whoever lived will hear this good news, and will still die lost. Why will they die lost and not be saved even if they never heard the good news of Jesus Christ? They are condemned already per John 3:18.

You are looking at this the wrong way my friend. You think the unregenerate are walking around looking for a way to be saved, when in fact, that is not even remotely true. A lost person will never seek God, per Psalm 14 and Romans 3. The lost person is not walking around looking for a place to get into the kingdom of God. In fact, unless they are born again, they can not even see this glorious kingdom(John 3:3).

What is your explanation of 2 Tim 2:13?

 

[Hevosmies]

ROFL
A YouTube video about refuting Calvinism.

Its actually a parody, if you watch the video.

Check it out @Sackcloth-N-Ashes you would probably like it

 

[preacher4truth]

ROFL
A YouTube video about refuting Calvinism. I have researched the Calvinism and Arminianism and found both to be quite Biblical. The early elders created the creeds as what a Christian must believe and every other Biblical issue was to agree to disagree. For those like you that ignore this I have the following file I post for those like you. Refute the Biblical Defense of Calvinism and Arminianism at the end of this.
_________
Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Armenian 5 points

Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace

For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,

https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html

Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages

There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.

Calvinism Armenianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate

Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm

Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/

Arminianism isn't biblical no matter how many times you cut and paste the above old and worn out diatribe. The teaching is clearly refuted with contextual exegesis.

Hey, can you at the least spell Arminianism correctly? It's not Armenianism as you have it in there at certain places.

I think I'll copy and paste this for each time you repost the above ad nauseum, but then bandwidth would take a huge hit and the www may crash.

 

[pottersclay]

At the end of the day not everyone who ever existed has been saved......did God fail?....I think not. Your thoughts???

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I said RARELY, not that He never did first of all.

Second God didnt choose because Abraham said yes???
The story begins out of the blue in Genesis where God just calls Abraham, nothing is written about what happened or didn't happen prior to it.

Abraham beled God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. If Abraham did not believe, He would never have went, and we never owuld have known his name.

Just take Gods word for what it says brother. Its not that difficult.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Arminians often say that draw means compel or "woo" them in. But what about the will be raised up part? Can someone answer that?

Maybe they would say that all will be resurrected, but if you say no you are raised up to the lake of fire?

Here is something to ease the tension, an apologetic class for arminians:

What about non arminians?

 

[Hevosmies]

What about non arminians?

Thats adressed in the video too. the "bible believers" who actually believe ALL of the arminian points, except for the will your way out of salvation part.

Alltho I must say, with some modern movements original sin is also rejected so there is that

 

[eternally-gratefull]

At the end of the day not everyone who ever existed has been saved......did God fail?....I think not. Your thoughts???

Nope. He will be glorified in all he has done.

Because he offered salvation to all. We can ot blame him because people said no thank you. And end up sending themselves to the fire.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thats adressed in the video too. the "bible believers" who actually believe ALL of the arminian points, except for the will your way out of salvation part.

I do not believe all of arminians or calvins views.

Why does it have to be an arminian vs calvin issue when it is not?