How do I lose my SALVATION?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#61
#61
obedienttogod said:
AMEN,
But, logic still indicates if we sin, God is not pleased even though He knows as humans we will sin. And logic also indicates if we sin abundantly, there has to be a limit.
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Yes, I know God is not pleased

But we can not lose salvation beause of that sin. James said if we break even 1 law we are guilty of all. Anyone who commits 1 sin in a day is just as worthy of condemnation as a person who commits 100 sins in that same day, According to God. They are both GUILTY as charged.

And you also have to look at John, Who makes it clear. A person born of God can not live in sin, If they do sin (like the world) then they are of their father the devil, and have never known god.

To say one can lose salvation because they sin to much is putting the onus of salvation on y9our ability and your power to earn salvation, and removes credit and the power of God to do what he promised to do. Which is to save you completely and make you into a new creation
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#62
Apr 22, 2013
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#62
obedienttogod said:
If we have actually misunderstood Paul and distorted his message, then we have misunderstood that we have guaranteed salvation. I am not saying we are losing our salvation, I am saying if we misunderstood the message, maybe we misunderstood we can sin as much as we want and still have a guarantee.
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Point taken! I'm pretty sure YOU have misunderstood Paul, AND Peter for that matter.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#63
#63
obedienttogod said:
Bingo!

That's is how I view it myself. Grace is the result of Mercy. And since we are agree, just how far can we push God's Mercy by believing we have basically a license to sin?
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I am not teaching a license to sin, So please lets get off this thinking

I teach it is IMPOSSIBLE for a child of God to live in sin, He will sin, But he will also recieve Gods chastening. He is also a new creation in Christ jesus, Sin is like poison to that new creation. So under no circumstance can a true child of God live in sin..

You will not see a true believer say they can go out and sin all they want. You will here a non believer say they can, and you will also here a legalists say they as long as they do not commit these sins they are ok, or they can lose salvation because they failed to maintain it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#64
#64
PennEd said:
Our following and serving don't keep us His Children. His shed Blood, the NEW Creation we are, and adoption as sons of God do that.

Stop relying on yourself to remain saved. A DOG returns to his vomit. Not a Child of God. I'm not a dog. Dogs don't BECOME Children, and then revert back to dogs.
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Amen, God makes us new creatures, A dog once saved is no longer a dog, thats why he will no longer act like a dog or return to what he was when he used to be a dog..

A dog eats his vomit by nature..
 
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Ignorun

Active member
#65
Dec 18, 2018
180
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#65
PennEd said:
Our following and serving don't keep us His Children. His shed Blood, the NEW Creation we are, and adoption as sons of God do that.

Stop relying on yourself to remain saved. A DOG returns to his vomit. Not a Child of God. I'm not a dog. Dogs don't BECOME Children, and then revert back to dogs.
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Tell that to the apostle Peter, he quoted it.
Truth got to you sparky, and sparky got jarred.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#66
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
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#66
stand2 said:
Billy Graham said "There is a Heaven...........and I am going there". This statement illustrates something beyond the hope of salvation. He did not hope he was going to Heaven............he knew.
As Christians, we may stray from the path of righteousness, but the Good Shepherd will always call us back to the fold. But when we stop listening to His call, we become prey for wolves. Without Jesus, we have lost our way. Deny Him and salvation is lost, and, as "true" Christians we will know when we have lost it.
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yeah gotta love Billy Graham......who said there are MANY ways to God (Jesus said HE was THE way) and that scripture (Christian bible) was not the only word of God.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#67
Jan 13, 2016
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#67
Ignorun said:
John
What do you mean by "Have you committed your eternal life to Jesus Christ"? Eternal life is only possible through Jesus Christ. Thank you.
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My soul...where I will spend eternity.
 
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Ignorun

Active member
#68
Dec 18, 2018
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#68
GraceAndTruth said:
yeah gotta love Billy Graham......who said there are MANY ways to God (Jesus said HE was THE way) and that scripture (Christian bible) was not the only word of God.
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Yes. And that explains why Billy misunderstood hope, the ONE HOPE that the inspired apostles wrote about... It's in the bible. I have HOPE,the one HOPE in Ephesians 4.
Hope in the bible is not to wish. It is based on faith, trust.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#69
Apr 22, 2013
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#69
Ignorun said:
Tell that to the apostle Peter, he quoted it.
Truth got to you sparky, and sparky got jarred.
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Tell what to Peter?

That a born again Child of God, with a NEW nature, can't morph into a dog, and assume a dog's nature?

If we could, would it look like this?

 
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Ignorun

Active member
#71
Dec 18, 2018
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#71
PennEd said:
Tell what to Peter?

That a born again Child of God, with a NEW nature, can't morph into a dog, and assume a dog's nature?

If we could, would it look like this?

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It's 2 Peter 2.20-22. Shortly after Peter spoke about a dumb ass speaking to a prophet!
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#72
Oct 7, 2012
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#72
obedienttogod said:
I am assuming by your name (Ben) that you are a man.

Brother,
I am not disagreeing with any assessment towards the Grace of God. I am not denying what I see Paul claim, nor what I have read in Hebrews. But if we have missed the mark and understand what we think Paul is saying, and not actually fully understanding, then as Peter claimed, we are distorting Paul's message.

I do not live on assumptions in my life here on earth. When I buy milk I expect it to be milk and not sour because the date on it indicates it is good milk. I am just doing the same now with the message of Paul.
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There is a difference between intentionally sinning because of God's grace, and sinning whilst depending upon God's grace (delivered via the blood of Christ). Christians still sin in this life, and for this reason was Christ made High Priest, as our mediator between God and man. 1 John 2 speaks to this, that if a man sins we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. The propitiation for our sins.

If someone seeing God's grace understands this to mean that we may sin all that we want, they have misunderstood the Gospel and sanctification. Do not be fooled, God's grace is sufficient, but it is not a license to sin for truly that license is found outside of Christ with due penalty. The liberty and freedom within Christ is not to the enslavement of sin, but to use our members, our bodies, for righteousness unto God. Sin shall not have dominion over us under grace.
 
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Ignorun

Active member
#73
Dec 18, 2018
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#73
The issue isn't God turning us to dogs, which if He wanted to, He could. He caused a dumb ass to speak.
It's in the dogs nature, sure, but that's not the point. He went back to what he had vomited up.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#74
#74
Ignorun said:
The issue isn't God turning us to dogs, which if He wanted to, He could. He caused a dumb ass to speak.
It's in the dogs nature, sure, but that's not the point. He went back to what he had vomited up.
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I disagree

The point was a dog will always act like a dog. They can go for awhile and act different, but when push comes to shove, he will always return to acting like a dog.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#76
#76
Ignorun said:
Read the passage.
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22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

Yep. In both cases, A creaure acts like the creature it is, It can not be changed.

 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#77
Aug 22, 2014
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#77
Demi777 said:
God doesnt force anyone to stay saved...
Theres a great falling away..U cant fall away from something without having been in it before...
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Good point, but are we sure He is speaking of those the Father gives Him? Because He did say of those the Father gives Him He will lose NONE? Right? I actually think you're making a good point here, it's only I'd like to understand exactly who He's talking about and when it takes place. I think this may be aimed more towards the Jews before 70 AD when He abolished His temple to bring in the new age. I would love to hear more about what you think it means.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#78
Apr 22, 2013
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#78
Ignorun said:
It's 2 Peter 2.20-22. Shortly after Peter spoke about a dumb ass speaking to a prophet!
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20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

Yep. Did a whole study on this. These are the same dudes in several passages in Scripture. Like this one:
Matthew 12:
An Unclean Spirit Returns
43 “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44 Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it EMPTY, swept, and put in order. 45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.”


These guys were made clean BUT THEY WEREN'T FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT! They rejected the knowledge they were given.

And it would have been better for them if they NEVER had the knowledge and were cleaned to begin with. Now juxtapose them, with these guys:

1 Corinthians 6:
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [b]homosexuals, nor [c]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such WERE some of you. But you were WASHED, but you were [d]SANCTIFIED, but you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the SPIRIT of our God.

See the difference between the 2? One group were never filled with the Holy Spirit. They were made clean by the KNOWLEDGE of Christ, but they didn't have HIM!!

Hope that clears it up for Sparky! Ruff! Ruff!
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#79
Dec 28, 2016
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#79
PennEd said:
Tell what to Peter?

That a born again Child of God, with a NEW nature, can't morph into a dog, and assume a dog's nature?

If we could, would it look like this?

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Exactly, sheep don't become dogs or hogs.
 
Demi777

Demi777

Senior Member
#80
Oct 13, 2014
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#80
Jimbone said:
Good point, but are we sure He is speaking of those the Father gives Him? Because He did say of those the Father gives Him He will lose NONE? Right? I actually think you're making a good point here, it's only I'd like to understand exactly who He's talking about and when it takes place. I think this may be aimed more towards the Jews before 70 AD when He abolished His temple to bring in the new age. I would love to hear more about what you think it means.
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I think it talks about the born again Christians. As ''the faith'' and people falling away from it maybe due to not being able to withstand the enemy and give in to doctrines of demons. Can have many reasons. But its just my opinion
See hebrews 6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened,who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

I believe these are the people who are blotted out of the book of life
 
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