Genesis, sons of God, nephilim, and Giants

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blueluna5

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Sons of God refers to angels. Job mentions it.
Job
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

Nephilim were the offspring of fallen angels and the fall of man.

Giants resulted from this offspring.

Ancient Egypt comes to mind. The giant hieroglyphics depicted over and over. Then the God bloodline they meant to keep in the family (aka incest) which resulted in some very interesting characters like king Tut.
 

GraceAndTruth

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Did anyone with an answer to this forum actually read a bible?
Actually KNOW the definition of those words.......nephilim or raphaim?
 

iamsoandso

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A few things, here ^...

Would people (located on the earth) necessarily know that Satan was present in such a meeting? (Not necessarily, IMO.)

I find repeatedly in the entire context the phrase "H1961 H3117" which I don't find ever being used elsewhere in Scripture to be referring to a Heavenly-located setting/context.

And if we can find even just ONE other passage that uses "H3320 H5921" of humans (located on the earth, doing this) then we can consider this a legit view of this passage as well (Job 1:7 & 2:1 [2x]). And I find that "H3320 H5921" IS indeed used regarding "humans, located on the earth," thus rendering this very possible (and I believe the more likely explanation [similarly] of Job 1 & 2). And that is in Psalm 2:2 ( https://biblehub.com/text/psalms/2-2.htm And here, the English words used are "set themselves" and "against"... which doesn't necessarily have to be the identical "intent" in the Job verses... I'm just showing that it is possible for "humans, located on the earth" to do this... the context of Job 1 & 2's numerous mentions of various "H1961 H3117" calls for this [earthly location], as I see it).

I'm not sure if examining that type of Hebrew would lead anywhere considering both Job and Genesis would have been written in this type text and then later translated to the text type your examining. http://net.lib.byu.edu/imaging/negev/mainfs.html
 

iamsoandso

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Here's what I mean by "H1961 H3117", for example (a number of times in the text of Job 1 and 2, from what I recall, verses [4-]5 and 13 for example):

https://biblehub.com/text/job/1-6.htm - Job 1:6 here


וַיְהִ֣י
way-hî

הַיּ֔וֹם
hay-yō-wm,


lol, I know what you mean my friend but the language(text type) you are analyzing it in did not exist at the time the book of Job nor Genesis was written. examine the links to the left in the link I gave.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ EDIT (to my post): and when I looked at another source where two are compared side by side, the one titled "Strong's Concordance" did not look like the above-mentioned Hebrew lettering, but the one titled "Original Text" did look like the above-mentioned Hebrew lettering (as far as I can tell).


P.S. I've mentioned before (and I apologize, it's nothing personal) that I don't open links unless I'm very familiar with them. Sorry.
 

iamsoandso

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your tying to analyze a more modern text type that it was interpreted into instead of what Job and Genesis would have been written in.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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your tying to analyze a more modern text type that it was interpreted into instead of what Job and Genesis would have been written in.
Okay, so apart from my opening your link ( :D ), let me ask you this: are you saying you have a way to tell whether or not the first word (I put ^ , in Hebrew) is the same word used some 20x in Genesis 1-2... or are you saying there is no way at all to tell such a thing... or are you saying something other? Or perhaps not making any such point. LOL :D
 

iamsoandso

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lol, billions of Christians lived before me and you and heard the truth in a multitude of languages but all the sudden were convinced that we are the blessed ones who can unlock the actual truth with the internet...
 

iamsoandso

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man I must have used Linux for so long I'm forgetting all about the opening thing's skeer,,I haven't used an antivirus for so long you caught me off guard.lol...
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ Sorry, I meant the second word (for "day"... lol)… and then, say, the other word I pointed out in same Job 1 verse as it might be found/used in Genesis. All I'm asking is whether you believe there's any way at all to discover whether or not those would have originally been the same word (in both places [Job/Genesis for comparing], where originally written) or if there is no way possible.

I'm not sure if I'm conveying my question as to your understanding regarding this (point), or not. If not, simply disregard this, and I'll continue pondering... thanks. :)



P.S. the computer belonging to the person I had borrowed from, to use, crashed and burned last time I attempted opening an innocent-looking link at one of these discussion boards. I can't afford to replace any more... :D
 

Budman

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What about Genesis 3:15
And I will put emnity between thee and the woman, between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Who is God referring to here, isnt he referring to the serpent? Wasnt the serpent a mouthpiece for satan who as we understand was a fallen angel. Or what two kinds of seeds is He talking about?

Am not saying you are right or wrong but how did angels multiply to be so many in the first place? Or did God create each one individually. They may have stopped reproduction at some stage when they became immortal...perhaps you could explain this passage?

God created all the angels at one moment in time, and there is no biblical indication God did, or will, create more angels after that initial creation.

The serpent in Genesis 3:15 is indeed Satan, but his "seed" is a spiritual seed - those people who are unsaved. He is their spiritual "father". As Jesus said of the those Jews in John 8:41-45.
 

JohnRH

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The sons of God in Genesis 6 were men, not angels. :)

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Angels don't take wives. The sons of God were men, not angels.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Giants are men (Numbers 13:32,33). Mighty men are men. Men of renown are men. The sons of God were men. Men beget men; that's the way it works.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Like begets like. Men are flesh. Angels are spirits (Hebrews 1:14). The sons of God were flesh. Flesh begets flesh.

Romans 5:12-18 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men ... as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation ...
The giants, mighty men, and men of renown were born sinners, just like the rest of us, because they were descendants of Adam, not angels.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains
under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
There's no mention of angels marrying women here. Have you ever moved from one estate to a new habitation? Did that cause your new house to get pregnant? The sons of God were men, not angels.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
The angels "sinned". That's a broad term. There's no mention of the angels marrying & impregnating women in this passage. The sons of God in Genesis 6 were men, not angels.

Psalm 8:4,5 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels ...
Men and angels are distinctly different creatures from each other: God made them that way. The sons of God were men and they begot men.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and ... angel/man hybrids? I don't think so. Some extra-biblical "Enoch" might have thought so, but I don't. Jesus was the one and only mediator between God and the mighty men and the men of renown.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Who did the biblical Enoch prophesy of?
Verse 4 ... certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men ...
Ungodly sinners who are men - not some mythical offspring of angels & women.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and
honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Jesus tasted death for every mighty man and every man of renown. Their fleshly daddy's name was Adam, not Lucifer.
 

John146

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Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Angels don't take wives. The sons of God were men, not angels.
Notice that the angels mentioned are "in heaven". The fallen angels left their own habitation, took on human form, and had sexual relations with the daughters of men.

sons of God vs daughters of men - there is an obvious difference between the two
 

John146

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The sons of God in Genesis 6 were men, not angels. :)

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Angels don't take wives. The sons of God were men, not angels.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Giants are men (Numbers 13:32,33). Mighty men are men. Men of renown are men. The sons of God were men. Men beget men; that's the way it works.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Like begets like. Men are flesh. Angels are spirits (Hebrews 1:14). The sons of God were flesh. Flesh begets flesh.

Romans 5:12-18 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men ... as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation ...
The giants, mighty men, and men of renown were born sinners, just like the rest of us, because they were descendants of Adam, not angels.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains
under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
There's no mention of angels marrying women here. Have you ever moved from one estate to a new habitation? Did that cause your new house to get pregnant? The sons of God were men, not angels.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
The angels "sinned". That's a broad term. There's no mention of the angels marrying & impregnating women in this passage. The sons of God in Genesis 6 were men, not angels.

Psalm 8:4,5 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels ...
Men and angels are distinctly different creatures from each other: God made them that way. The sons of God were men and they begot men.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and ... angel/man hybrids? I don't think so. Some extra-biblical "Enoch" might have thought so, but I don't. Jesus was the one and only mediator between God and the mighty men and the men of renown.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Who did the biblical Enoch prophesy of?
Verse 4 ... certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men ...
Ungodly sinners who are men - not some mythical offspring of angels & women.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and
honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Jesus tasted death for every mighty man and every man of renown. Their fleshly daddy's name was Adam, not Lucifer.
Job 38
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

No one from Adam's race was there at the foundations of the earth. That's the Lord's whole point to Job. But the sons of God were there shouting for joy at God's creation.
 

JohnRH

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Job 38
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

No one from Adam's race was there at the foundations of the earth. That's the Lord's whole point to Job. But the sons of God were there shouting for joy at God's creation.
Job isn't Genesis and Genesis isn't Job. The term can be used different ways.
 

John146

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Job isn't Genesis and Genesis isn't Job. The term can be used different ways.
Scripture is Scripture, terms will not contradict.

Why is it so hard to believe Satan’s attack on the seed line?
 

Lanolin

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God created all the angels at one moment in time, and there is no biblical indication God did, or will, create more angels after that initial creation.

The serpent in Genesis 3:15 is indeed Satan, but his "seed" is a spiritual seed - those people who are unsaved. He is their spiritual "father". As Jesus said of the those Jews in John 8:41-45.
Hmm not all that convinced if He only started out with two humans. Why would God create tens of thousands of angels, all at once. Maybe they reproduce in a different way, for example, like plants, not all of them reproduce by sexual reproduction. Even with adam and .eve, eve was made out of adams rib, she was not 'born'. IF God wanted to make more children, he doesnt have to do it sexually. He didnt with Jesus.

Why would satan have spiritual seed and his descendeants are unsaved, yet eve has physical seed and it all her descendents are saved, shouldnt it be the other way around? What did serpent tempt eve with if not to take or eat his seed from the fruit he offered. Wasnt this a PHYSICAL desire. Isnt this the difference between lust and love.
 

JohnRH

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Scripture is Scripture, terms will not contradict.

Why is it so hard to believe Satan’s attack on the seed line?
Using terms in different ways isn't contradicting.
 

Deade

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Notice that the angels mentioned are "in heaven". The fallen angels left their own habitation, took on human form, and had sexual relations with the daughters of men.

sons of God vs daughters of men - there is an obvious difference between the two
Just listen to yourself. When the angels fell and became demons they are still spirits. Why would scripture still refer to them as sons of God. When they rebelled, they gave up that identity. Flesh and spirits can't mix. Besides, God wouldn't let them. They must still operate within the boundaries set by God. :cool: