Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

So you teach "greasy preservation" which is not forever, in opposition to Psalm 37:28?
Preserved IN Christ Jesus means just that and how long are believers preserved in Christ Jesus? FOREVER.
Believers are IN Christ Jesus. Unbelievers are NOT in Christ Jesus. Simple!

Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

Irrevocable, incorruptible, uttermost, kept, eternal, everlasting, finishes, completes, lose nothing, leave to find, sealed, in hand, never leave, never forsake, x 2 etc.....

All words, concepts and truths rejected by those who peddle a salvation that can be lost or forfeit!

 

[dcontroversal]

I do not have an issue with fully accepting what Christ did for me....Grace through faith without works....period. That is the starting point. Forever secured, sealed

Amen to that.....simple as.......

 

[dcontroversal]

You trying to take their guns away?😬

They actually have no leg to stand on....the bible is clear and salvation is eternally given as a gift that is irrevocable.....end of story

 

[dcontroversal]

How can we know God's will; because it is revealed page after page in scripture,
"not complicated read your bible."

1 Thessalonians 4:
It is God's will that you should be sanctified:

Amen....one of the most dangerous dogmas that leads to hell <--conflating justification with ongoing sanctification resulting in a dogma that has no power to save....the modus operandi of all salvation losers, Cainologists, workers for and Pharisees.....

Galarians -->faith plus works to finish off salvation = false gospel of a different kind with no power to save anyone.....!!

 

[dcontroversal]

some where, we will pay a price, for it is written,
'Be not deceived, God is not mocked, you shall reap what you sow'.

even as David had Uriah killed for his own lust, he certainly paid the price,
the events in his life speaks and bears witness -
cursed for a time, but, blessed for eternity'...

it is written:
'there shall always be a just weight and balance'...
and
EZ. 18:29.
Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of The Lord is not equal. O house of Israel,
are not My ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

Sure.....called Chastening and is only applied unto CHILDREN.....also results in the loss of reward.....as evidenced by Hebrews, Corinthians, David, Samson and others......

But NO WHERE does it teach a child can be UNBORN and it does teach that our spirit is BORN AGAIN BY INCORRUPTIBLE SEED ETERNALLY FROM ABOVE and the free GIFT of salvation is irrevocable <--the gifts and calling of God is IRREVOCABLE

 

[dcontroversal]

I go to a pentecostal church, they believe you can lose your salvation, so I can say how they answer each of these:

Saved to the uttermost......... if you continue in the faith as it says in colossians.

Kept by the power of God, He starts and Finishes, but human free will so God wont "force" it on anyone.

I will lose nothing the Father has given me, thats a tough one to answe,r dont know what they'd say, maybe free will card again? He wont lose any but people lose themselves? i dunno, any conditional security believers wanna tackle that?.

Eternal and everlasting means everlasting, but we ignore the past "saved" tense and say eternal life isnt present, but only in the future, we are in possession of it, but we arent, very simple No seriously, this is another one I want some conditional security believer to address, how can we have PRESENT TENSE eternal life if we believe, yet not be saved? HOW DOES THAT WORK? If you have it now, but not tomorrow it wasnt ETERNAL?

Salvation irrevocable gift, but free will, you get a BMW as a gift and crash it.

Never leave or forsake us, unless you forsake Him. (free will, notice the pattern here?)

Born eternally from above by incorruptible seed, unless you die again by sinning willfully too much.

Yep....all false and the results of religion that makes slaves and does not set free.....!!

 

[Rightlydivided]

Amen.........irrevocable is as clear as it gets when it comes to the gifts and calling of God.....salvation is A FREE GIFT THAT CANNOT BE EARNED OR MAINTAINED....CHRIST KEEPS US by his power through the FAITH HE BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES.....all that peddle a salvation that can be lost deny Christ, his work, power, words and promises......!

All the glory to Christ! I will not rob one drop of it! THAT is when you truly change in your heart, when it is done of

David Pawson isnt a calvinist btw, hes a charismatic preacher.

Doesnt believe in OSAS. So there goes that. No assurance of salvation in your system either. You can never know if you are doing enough, you can never know if you sinned too much and its game over.

Thats a philosophical argument.

To me its all irrelevant. You can know you are saved, no matter what "positioN" you take in my opinion. I KNOW whom I have believed, Paul said.

As I said:

The TWO most important things for YOUR LIFE(By your i mean EVERYONE reading this) in this world are:

1. KNOW that you are saved.
2. KNOW that you are in the will of God in your life.

if you got those two things, you are smooth sailing

Well, in your doctrine, you must be very careful to hide your sin from your brethren, even though you have the same in you, for if you slip up, or seemingly are not producing enough fruit on your personal measuring rod, or working hard enough, or tithing enough, the gossip will start, and they may treat you as an unbeliever.....the watchful eye, the fruit inspectors, the council will convene! Shame! shame! whether it be your church, or the one down the street, it resides in your false doctrine, you simply refuse to see the damage it has caused within the body of Christ...but hey, for you, like a good carsalesman would say “if it’s new, it ain’t true!”

 

[UnderGrace]

You do love that obedience is not a requirement...which you posted just above.
THIS is easy believism and cheap grace.
Maybe you could read up on these terms?
Were you aware that Trinity is a made-up word?

See right here, you are in line with Calvinism....did you know that?

 

[dokimos]

We put our sin to death…

• So that the name of God may not be sullied
• To advance the Kingdom of God
• To reduce suffering
• To give good witness (this is important)
• To increase unity with God
• Only by the power of the Holy Spirit
• To kick out demons
• Not to avoid Hell i mean correct me if i am wrong here.....

 

[UnderGrace]

When one has the truth it is easy to see through the religious inept rigmarole......

Yes, indeed the perfect word LOL!!!

Rigamarole
1. an elaborate or complicated procedure.
2. confused or meaningless talk.

 

[GodsGrace101]

​

the One who calls you is faithful, and He will do it​

(1 Thessalonians 5:24) ​

You're answering to a calvinist idea.
Are you one?

 

[dokimos]

I mean, I try to argue against Calvinism, but what about Romans 9????

 

[GodsGrace101]

You can post 100 scriptures Fran and it will never alleviate....

Saved to the uttermost

Kept by the power of God through the faith he begins, finishes and completes

I will lose NOTHING THE FATHER HAS GIVEN ME BUT WILL RAISE IT UP THE LAST DAY

ETERNAL AND EVERLASTING meaning eternal and everlasting

Salvation as a free IRREVOCABLE GIFT

Never leave or forsake us

Born eternally from above by incorruptible SEED

and on and on and on

CONFLATING justification with ongoing sanctification and rejecting the ability to gain or lose rewards and NOT SALVATION will continue to keep you in the dark...

You have kids....Can anything change the absolute fact that they have been BORN YOUR CHILD BY BIRTH?

NO........for all eternity they will be your child by birth!

"I will raise IT up on the last day"

Why doesn't it say "them"????

Why does the verse say "it" when it mentions people, which would be a "they"?????

Find out.

 

[Argueless]

Jesus was clear concerning the Pharisees making disciples.....said disciples were two fold the children of hell, meaning...

a. They were bound by a false religion
b. They were lost as well

In order to be born again they had to get over two things now instead of one<--just being lost.......

Two fold the children of hell.....a very difficult process to overcome.....many will not make that boat......

Lord, Lord have we not done<---exactly what salvation losers, Cainologists, Pharisees and the workers for peddle!

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now. These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command. Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of the warnings?

... It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. THE LORD WILL PUNISH MEN FOR ALL SUCH SINS, as we have already told you and WARNED YOU. For GOD DID NOT CALL YOU TO BE IMPURE, BUT TO LIVE A HOLY LIFE. Therefore, HE WHO REJECTS THIS INSTRUCTION DOES NOT REJECT MAN BUT GOD, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8

...See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?

 

[GodsGrace101]

@GodsGrace101 Remember to not leave God out the picture completely! Its not like you get saved and then you just gotta hang on for dear life in the flesh hoping to make it in the end. I dont see that as biblical salvation. I also must confess if I DID view salvation that way, I would renounce Christianity in a heartbeat, I got no time for playing russian roulette with my life, never knowing what my standing is and where I will stand on the other side. What if I were to waste all my life doing charity, living well, trying not to sin, ONLY TO still come up short and end up in hell? That means I just wasted my entire life, while I could of partied it up and still ended up in the same fiery hellhole. do you see my point here?

If you cant KNOW you are saved, WHY BOTHER with anything at all?

Many verses have been posted where God does something.
Among other things, He saves and He sanctifies.

Didn't you read post 80,605?

 

[GodsGrace101]

I mean, I try to argue against Calvinism, but what about Romans 9????

No problem.
Study up on it....
It's about Israel, Not individual salvation.

 

[Hevosmies]

Well, in your doctrine, you must be very careful to hide your sin from your brethren, even though you have the same in you, for if you slip up, or seemingly are not producing enough fruit on your personal measuring rod, or working hard enough, or tithing enough, the gossip will start, and they may treat you as an unbeliever.....the watchful eye, the fruit inspectors, the council will convene! Shame! shame! whether it be your church, or the one down the street, it resides in your false doctrine, you simply refuse to see the damage it has caused within the body of Christ...but hey, for you, like a good carsalesman would say “if it’s new, it ain’t true!”

Indeed, if its new it aint true. Applies when you try to have MULTIPLE GOSPELS.

Get a mirror, pal. Who is inspecting whose fruit now? is it not you?

 

[VCO]

Yep....all false and the results of religion that makes slaves and does not set free.....!!

Is finding a new Church that teaches the way you now BELIEVE an Option?

Is the teaching that genuine Tongues and the MIRACLE GIFTS, are only an Apostolic Gift, going to bother your?


I will show you some verses that plainly declares that ETERNAL LIFE IS HERE AND NOW, if you are BORN AGAIN. And I am convinced you probably are. The understanding that you now have, is what I think is a major indication. You see what is a Stumbling Block, is many Christians, think that SALVATION and SANCTIFICATION are the same thing, and THEY ARE NOT.

SALVATION is of the Human Spirit, and it is ETERNALLY ALIVE once you have been born again. Yes, it is a war between the new born human Spirit, and the will of the Flesh, when you first are saved. But the New Born Human Spirit will become dominant as is MATURES on the WORD OF GOD.

SANCTIFICATION, is the process whereby the human body, conforms to the will of GOD, becoming more and more like Christ, which will not reach PERFECTION until HE gives us that Glorified Body at the Resurrection.

I attend a conservative non-denominational evangelical type of Church. I like that, because, they do not get to PIN a denominational TITLE on me. Most of the Churches I have been involved with since I became Born Again, have been IFCA affiliated Churches. The abbreviation stands for Independent Fundamental Churches of America, but now it is International. Do get some input from DC too, we believe almost the Same Doctrinally, with only one exception, I believe in the Pre-Tribulation "Calling Out of the Bride of Christ" and he does not. Here is there Doctrinal Statement of Faith, from IFCA Churches, that may give you an idea what to look for, if you choose to search for a new Church. https://www.ifca.org/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=140043234&sec_id=140007594

Here are some of the Verses that I promised:


John 10:27-30 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”

John 3:6-7 (HCSB)
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

John 3:16 (HCSB)
16 “For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

John 17:3 (HCSB)
3 This is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and the One You have sent—Jesus Christ.

John 3:36 (HCSB)
36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (HCSB)
24 “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

John 6:47 (HCSB)
47 “I assure you: Anyone who believes has eternal life.

2 Timothy 1:10 (HCSB)
10 This has now been made evident through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

1 John 3:14-15 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.
15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.


SEE IT ? ? ?

WE DO HAVE ETERNAL LIFE RESIDING IN OUR HUMAN SPIRITS !

 

[Rightlydivided]

some where, we will pay a price, for it is written,
'Be not deceived, God is not mocked, you shall reap what you sow'.

even as David had Uriah killed for his own lust, he certainly paid the price,
the events in his life speaks and bears witness -
cursed for a time, but, blessed for eternity'...

it is written:
'there shall always be a just weight and balance'...
and
EZ. 18:29.
Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of The Lord is not equal. O house of Israel,
are not My ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

Indeed, if its new it aint true. Applies when you try to have MULTIPLE GOSPELS.

Get a mirror, pal. Who is inspecting whose fruit now? is it not you?

You don’t like this passage do you?

Matthew 15:22-28 King James Version (KJV)
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Hmmmm...

 

[VCO]

I go to a pentecostal church, they believe you can lose your salvation, so I can say how they answer each of these:
. . .

My goof. The post #80,658 should have been addressed to you, Hevosmies, instead of DC. Sorry for the confusion.