Law keeping?

[Blik]

I wonder why no one is answering your question?

Its a pretty simple question.

I would have answered it if I followed that idea. But the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has freed me from that.

It is a stupid question. Those who do not love the Lord enough to want to know about the Lord's laws just try to find a way to taunt those who do love the Lord. Those who love God, want to know all about Him and follow Him read His word, listen to what God tells us, and learn all they can about His laws. They try to follow all they understand of them and constantly search for more understanding.

If this was a serious want to know question, the answer for all of us would be to understand God's love and try to follow it. That includes all the Lord has to say about law from Moses to Paul.

 

[Grandpa]

It is a stupid question. Those who do not love the Lord enough to want to know about the Lord's laws just try to find a way to taunt those who do love the Lord. Those who love God, want to know all about Him and follow Him read His word, listen to what God tells us, and learn all they can about His laws. They try to follow all they understand of them and constantly search for more understanding.

If this was a serious want to know question, the answer for all of us would be to understand God's love and try to follow it. That includes all the Lord has to say about law from Moses to Paul.

You don't know why he asked.

Deep down you must know that what you preach is foolishness. Otherwise you would be forthright in what you do and why.

 

[Blik]

It is a stupid question. Those who do not love the Lord enough to want to know about the Lord's laws just try to find a way to taunt those who do love the Lord. Those who love God, want to know all about Him and follow Him read His word, listen to what God tells us, and learn all they can about His laws. They try to follow all they understand of them and constantly search for more understanding.

If this was a serious want to know question, the answer for all of us would be to understand God's love and try to follow it. That includes all the Lord has to say about law from Moses to Paul.

So you are handling law as Paul told us not to do, you are relying on grace so grace abounds and you are not responsible. Paul tells us not to do that.

 

[Blik]

You don't know why he asked.

Deep down you must know that what you preach is foolishness. Otherwise you would be forthright in what you do and why.

I as a person preach nothing, I report what God tells us in the word. I am only a vessel.

 

[Grandpa]

So you are handling law as Paul told us not to do, you are relying on grace so grace abounds and you are not responsible. Paul tells us not to do that.

Paul doesn't say any such thing.

Paul says you should not SIN so that Grace would abound. He doesn't say don't rely on Grace otherwise Grace will abound.

We have nothing other than Grace to rely on. We are weak. But Gods Grace is Strong.

 

[Grandpa]

I as a person preach nothing, I report what God tells us in the word. I am only a vessel.

So then you shouldn't think it is foolishness even if others do.

So why not just answer the question truthfully?

 

[NayborBear]

He does teach works, he is trying to earn and maintain his salvation and trying to get people to return to law a law he will never keep

The rest of us are focused on following the law of love and seeking after the things of the spirit, because we are saved.

Being more then less "borne and bred" within "the church", from younger then I can actually remember. And seeing "first hand", and in many instances, the members thereof, and in several churches Ma n Pa, had took me to over the course of several years, who focused on the "law of love", to the "detriment" of the remaining "fruit of the Spirit", and grieving the Holy Spirit in this "focus upon following", that this "law of love" "de-evolved" into an Every Sin is covered, DOCTRINE! This doctrine is what is KILLING "Churches of stone!" And, needs to stop!
Elst we find ourselves, as the "many" who Christ, in that day, will state He never knew us!

Where Christ's "finished work" on the Cross ends? Is where the believer's "WORK/s", BEGINS! Not ends!

It is indeed unfortunate, not everyone can see this as such. What IS seen, is this "Works = Salvation" issue!

What I see as "quanity over quality?" Others, see "Hey!" "This is GREAT!"

Which is no wise provoking Israel to jealousy!

For it was "TO THIS END", the Gospel was given UNTO "us gentiles", in the "Second" place! Right? RIGHT??

Or, am I missing something here?

 

[NayborBear]

Matthew 9
28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

????????
Matthew 9
28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.

An honest mistake, I'm sure.

 

[Grandpa]

????????
Matthew 9
28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.

An honest mistake, I'm sure.

He meant Matthew 19:28

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Being more then less "borne and bred" within "the church", from younger then I can actually remember. And seeing "first hand", and in many instances, the members thereof, and in several churches Ma n Pa, had took me to over the course of several years, who focused on the "law of love", to the "detriment" of the remaining "fruit of the Spirit", and grieving the Holy Spirit in this "focus upon following", that this "law of love" "de-evolved" into an Every Sin is covered, DOCTRINE! This doctrine is what is KILLING "Churches of stone!" And, needs to stop!
Elst we find ourselves, as the "many" who Christ, in that day, will state He never knew us!

Where Christ's "finished work" on the Cross ends? Is where the believer's "WORK/s", BEGINS! Not ends!

It is indeed unfortunate, not everyone can see this as such. What IS seen, is this "Works = Salvation" issue!

What I see as "quanity over quality?" Others, see "Hey!" "This is GREAT!"

Which is no wise provoking Israel to jealousy!

For it was "TO THIS END", the Gospel was given UNTO "us gentiles", in the "Second" place! Right? RIGHT??

Or, am I missing something here?

You can not teach the words of the cross is finished and completed, and in the same breath teach that every sin is not covered, if this true, then the work of the cross is not yet completed.

While your right, the point of salvation is where our work begins (eph 2: 10) this work is a result of experencing Gods perfect love, not of a means of receiving it, as workers try to push,

we can not maintain our salvation by works, because we can work until we are blue in the face for the rest of our lives, it would not be enough, we would still earn just condemnation.

Legalism, not gods mercy and unconditional love, is the danger, it teaches people they are worthy and are righteous, and makes them proud, it takes their eyes off God and pits it on self, and it mocks God by denying his law as written. Which condems every human whoever takes a breath on this earth.

He may preach law and doing good, but he has no comprehension of the law he is trying to push at people. If he did, he would get on his knees, as th tax collector. and not go around pushing this law which can never save or maintain anyones salvation

 

[Magenta]

If scripture is not meant for the human race, just who do you think God gives scripture for?

Those laws give the spirit of God and apply to how God works in the culture they were given for. The food laws were to teach to keep our minds and body clean. The laws not to mix things are to teach to respect God's creation as God created it. They were given to a culture that was thousands of years ago, but the spirit is with us today.

If we would look for the spirit of the law as given and apply it to our culture it would make our life today so much better. As an example, man redoes God's way with wheat so our white bread has no nutrition, does not feed our body properly. Our
TV and fiction has dirt in it and at its worst it produces crime.

I did not say Scripture was not given for us, I said the law was not given to us. Big difference... to those with eyes to see.

 

[Locutus]

No speeding laws in the bible - so that don't apply coppers.

 

[Blik]

So then you shouldn't think it is foolishness even if others do.

So why not just answer the question truthfully?

I give you God's truth, you try to make hash out of it.

Just what more do you want? I got up this AM at 7:30 and had breakfast with Ruth at 8:15? This is a Christian site to discuss God's truth, not me, and no one should be interested in such things of my personal life.

 

[NayborBear]

You can not teach the words of the cross is finished and completed, and in the same breath teach that every sin is not covered, if this true, then the work of the cross is not yet completed.

While your right, the point of salvation is where our work begins (eph 2: 10) this work is a result of experencing Gods perfect love, not of a means of receiving it, as workers try to push,

we can not maintain our salvation by works, because we can work until we are blue in the face for the rest of our lives, it would not be enough, we would still earn just condemnation.

Legalism, not gods mercy and unconditional love, is the danger, it teaches people they are worthy and are righteous, and makes them proud, it takes their eyes off God and pits it on self, and it mocks God by denying his law as written. Which condems every human whoever takes a breath on this earth.

He may preach law and doing good, but he has no comprehension of the law he is trying to push at people. If he did, he would get on his knees, as th tax collector. and not go around pushing this law which can never save or maintain anyones salvation

I "liken" my salvation, much like the parable of the talents. But, it's not for salvation, but, for Spiritual perfecting, or maturing. This "investing" of one's talent, or talents.
Salvation, and investing talent/s, rather compliments one another. Ya know like "love and marriage", "horse and carriage." "Salvation and works." "Shave and a Haircut."
The salvation of one's soul has nothing to do with investing talent/s towards Spiritual maturity. Yet? The lack of investing one's talent/s, after salvation, could very well have much to do with losing one's salvation, or soul!
Fortunately!? That's not our "call!"

What one sees as a "works = salvation?"

Another sees, as "investing in maturity!"

Bottom line? BOTH are required to "carry on" into eternity!

This is the reason Paul urges us to "covet earnestly" the "higher" Spiritual gifts! Not for salvation! For Spiritual Maturity!

Now! What this has to do with "the law?" Isn't at all about being, or staying IN Christ, as much it is about the "entering into" the "Government" that is ON Christ's shoulders! And? What does it take, or what can I/We do to provoke them "Jew-Bastids" p) TO jealousy? Whilst, at the same time, keeping in mind the "warning" to "Beware those who say they are Israel, but, are the synagogue of satan!"

I understand, that this here venue, has all kinds of people, who are believer's, non-believer's, at, or in various levels, and stages, of salvational, as well as spiritual development.

 

[jaybird88]

in the old days when the Jews made a sacrifice, did they abolish all the laws and commands of the Most High that had been written up to that point?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I "liken" my salvation, much like the parable of the talents. But, it's not for salvation, but, for Spiritual perfecting, or maturing. This "investing" of one's talent, or talents.
Salvation, and investing talent/s, rather compliments one another. Ya know like "love and marriage", "horse and carriage." "Salvation and works." "Shave and a Haircut."
The salvation of one's soul has nothing to do with investing talent/s towards Spiritual maturity. Yet? The lack of investing one's talent/s, after salvation, could very well have much to do with losing one's salvation, or soul!
Fortunately!? That's not our "call!"

What one sees as a "works = salvation?"

Another sees, as "investing in maturity!"

Bottom line? BOTH are required to "carry on" into eternity!

This is the reason Paul urges us to "covet earnestly" the "higher" Spiritual gifts! Not for salvation! For Spiritual Maturity!

Now! What this has to do with "the law?" Isn't at all about being, or staying IN Christ, as much it is about the "entering into" the "Government" that is ON Christ's shoulders! And? What does it take, or what can I/We do to provoke them "Jew-Bastids" p) TO jealousy? Whilst, at the same time, keeping in mind the "warning" to "Beware those who say they are Israel, but, are the synagogue of satan!"

I understand, that this here venue, has all kinds of people, who are believer's, non-believer's, at, or in various levels, and stages, of salvational, as well as spiritual development.

You cant have it both ways,

Either salvation is by grace, or it is by works. (In fact paul makes this very declaration)

Saying works do not save, but lack of work may cause us to lose salvation is like saying you were given a gift, meaning you do not have to pay for it, it was paid in full, but later if you do not pay for it, you will lose it.

I understand this is a hard concept, especially to people who think their works means something, but its true

Yes, works help us to maturity, but even the bible says some will remain babes, and still others, when all their work is tried by fire will have nothing, but even they, will still be saved, even thouh as through fire.

If you want to teach how to get to maturity through works of faith, i will be with you, if you want to demand these works are requird else we wil lose salvation, I will be against you, as will God, because it turns his grace to legalism. Which is just as evil as those who turn his grace to licentiousness. Both oare steeped in pride!

 

[devoiler]

My thoughts are that the pre-Jesus laws had 'chaff mixed in with the wheat'. In the following scripture Jesus attempts to tell the leaders of the Jews who their father is. Even though Jesus is direct with them toward the end, they still are not capable of opening their eyes. Jesus loved them and wanted to them to see the truth.

John 8

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

.............

15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

.............

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

.............

37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus states, later on in the scripture, that they think they are doing the work of God.

 

[Blik]

He may preach law and doing good, but he has no comprehension of the law he is trying to push at people. If he did, he would get on his knees, as th tax collector. and not go around pushing this law which can never save or maintain anyones salvation

I simply cannot believe that Christians are so anti-God that they preach against His word if they find anything in the word that guides them to a Godly life.

They all have the same chant against God's word of law saying it can't save and always following that is the idea of throw it all out if it won't save you, it is the one thing they want it to be good for.

Or they tell of some legalistic way of obedience, saying being that is not real obedience throw the whole shebang out. Then they announce they are going to Christ for forgiveness--and heaven forbid they should add repentance to that. They think repentance takes work and "work won't save" so repentance has to go!!

Heaven forbid!!!!!!

 

[Blik]

You cant have it both ways,

Either salvation is by grace, or it is by works. (In fact paul makes this very declaration)

If you believe in scripture then you MUIST have it both ways.

Scripture does NOT say that because your works won't save you, don't work!!!! Scripture tells us that if we love Christ we will follow His commandments, and Christ and the Father are one.

Not only are we to follow the commandments as Moses gave it, but Christ carefully explained the spirit of the law that was to be added to it. It isn't enough not to commit the sin, but we are to keep our hearts and minds away from sin.

 

[Tim416]

If you believe in scripture then you MUIST have it both ways.

Scripture does NOT say that because your works won't save you, don't work!!!! Scripture tells us that if we love Christ we will follow His commandments, and Christ and the Father are one.

Not only are we to follow the commandments as Moses gave it, but Christ carefully explained the spirit of the law that was to be added to it. It isn't enough not to commit the sin, but we are to keep our hearts and minds away from sin.

You are including the law relating to the inner man in the above aren't you? The law no one but you and God need know you break? As I am sure you know, you can break the ten commandments in your thoughts and mind. Anyone can appear to live a holy life on the outside, but that is not enough if we want to obey the law is it
If someone dwells on an impure thought for example they have not kept their minds away from sin, what happens then?