Not By Works

[Argueless]

Some of you have become ARROGANT, as if I were not coming to you. But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are TALKING (double talk), but what power they have. FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NOT A MATTER OF TALK BUT OF POWER. What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a whip, or in love and with a gentle spirit? 1 Corinthians 4:18-21

 

[GodsGrace101]

Another DESCRIPTIVE passage of Scripture that you confuse with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture. I already explained this to you. In John 5:28-29, *Notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers - vs. 24) are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil.

What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already..

Are believers described as "those who have done good" or those who have done evil?"

Are unbelievers described as those "who have done evil" or "those who have done good?"

What will works determine for believers at the judgment? *See 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.

Don't confuse yourself with the descriptive and prescriptive stuff and listen to what JESUS states:

It's very simple:

John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deedsto a resurrection of judgment. "

As you can see, Jesus does not mention believers or non-believers...
you're just muddying the waters.

Thsoe reading along that want to know and please God will find these two verses VERY EASY to understand with no help from you.

Those who do GOOD DEEDS will be go to heaven.
Those who do EVIL DEEDS will go to judgement.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Works-salvation is very dangerous ground! (Matthew 7:21-23) As we read on in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as you would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.

Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" doing all the things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness.

*Only those who truly believe in Him are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus and acts on their own self-righteous works system and calls that acting on the words of Jesus.

Are you at all aware that you're not supposed to add to scripture?
You ADD A LOT to scripture which is your own opinion.
This is called eisegesis...and is incorrect to do.

Jesus made everything simple ---why do YOU complicate everything He said??

Here is the scripture again....for those interested in what JESUS said and not what MMD says.

Mathew 7:24-27 JESUS SAID:
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”

As anyone can clearly see, YOU added a lot to the above.
Jesus is just saying the the WISE MAN HEARS His words. I'm sure knowing Greek so well, you understand that HEARING does not mean only with the ears, but with the mind and heart.

The wise man HEARD THE WORDS OF JESUS and built his house on THE ROCK...Jesus.
THAT house did not fall when the rains came.

The foolish mand DID NOT ACT on the words of Jesus and built his house on sand, when the rains came the house FELL AND GREAT WAS ITS FALL.


See MMD.
Simple.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Jesus is describing those who did good deeds (believers) and will receive a resurrection of life. Jesus is not saying that these believers were saved based on the merits of their good deeds. What did Jesus say was the basis or means of receiving eternal life in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? *Not good deeds. What did Paul say in Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9? *Not good deeds either. Jesus goes on to describe those who committed evil deeds (unbelievers) to a resurrection of judgment.

*We see the same descriptive language in Romans 2:6-10. I have already explained this to you numerous time, but the truth continues to go right over your head as you continue to embrace salvation by works.

Do I have to post John 5:28-29 AGAIN???

I believe everyone that is reading this and WANTS to understand
DOES understand.

Apparently, not you.

 

[Argueless]

Jesus died on the cross so that the Holy Spirit can be in us to empower and enable us to meet the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law.

...For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, IN ORDER THAT THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD'S LAW, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. Romans 8:3-8

If someone is being led by the Spirit, he will not say that works done by those who teaches obedience to God have no bearing unto salvation and that they are just filthy rags.

...“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, WHATEVER YOU DID FOR ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE BROTHERS OF MINE, YOU DID FOR ME.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘DEPART FROM ME, you who are cursed, INTO THE ETERNAL FIRE prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:40-41

It is blasphemy to the Holy Spirit to call the works He is doing in a believer, the little ones who believe in Him, as filthy rags and has no bearing unto salvation.

Those who teach obedience to God are led by the Spirit since no one without the Spirit will teach obedience to God because there is no Holy Spirit in them that is leading them to obey, and teach obedience to God, to other people.

Did the Lord Jesus Christ, the prophets, apostles, disciples and all the Holy men of God obey and teach obedience to God? YES

..If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:26-29

DO NOT just listen and CLAIM and then BOAST THAT you are SAVED and others are not. Jesus will save His BODY who are eagerly awaiting a Savior from heaven. It is not a PERSONAL SALVATION but He will SAVE HIS BODY which is the Church.(Ephesians 5:23)

So if you are not IN HIM because you have RUN AHEAD and claimed victory without the HEAD who is the Lord Jesus Christ, THINK IT OVER.

...ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD and does not continue in the teaching of Christ DOES NOT HAVE GOD; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:1-11

...Not that I have already obtained all this, or have ALREADY BEEN MADE PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. ONLY LET US LIVE UP TO WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY ATTAINED. Philippians 3:12-16

...These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that ONLY TOGETHER WITH US (A NEW CREATION ÌN CHRIST CREATED UNTO GOOD WORKS- Ephesians 2:10-22) would they be made perfect. Hebrews 11:39-40

 

[GodsGrace101]

HAHAHHAAH nothing you said here has any bearing on what I said......they, like YOU, claim JESUS as LORD and DO MANY wonderful works in his name believing it will get you in......and I can play the thumbs down game if you want me too.....

dcontroversal said:
Absolutely.....and plenteous is the number that claims to have faith while fully expecting that works have apart to play in allowing them to enter.....at least 3 to 4 are posting in this thread....they claim...

a. Jesus as Lord <--faith
b. Works will help them make the cut

Same thing that ALL workers for, Cainologists, Pharisees and salvation losers peddle.......

Same thing you peddle as well Fran.................

Maybe there's something to it?

Mathew 7:14 JESUS SAID
"The gate is small and the way is narrow...."

Why do you think Jesus said the above if getting into heaven is as easy as YOU claim?
FAITH ONLY does NOT work for God.
God wants obedience.
And He's not requesting it.
He's demanding it.

 

[GodsGrace101]

You don't even know what you are talking about....get your facts straight FRAN.....what separates you and I is the false gospel of faith plus works that you peddle to keep a losable salvation.......You assume I do nothing for Christ because I rightfully believe it is faith alone that saves a man eternally and anything beyond that is the direct result of said faith......

Those that read the N.T. and actually understand it will know who is teaching the false gospel.
There is only ONE GOSPEL.
Better to get to know it.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I did explain it, maybe both of you are too dense to understand what "rightly divide" means.....and you are just jealous....no one, except a few other workers for, cainologists and salvation losers that must help JESUS do what he said he would do like the drivel and conflated gospel that you attempt to sell here.......

Yes. I am so dense.
Could you please give us the post number please?
Thanks.

BTW, if YOU can't explain rightly dividing the word of truth...
I will.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Try this on for size.

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Could you please explain to us what WORKS means?
I'm sure you've studied Paul, the O.T. and what Paul means by works.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The above quote and the thumbs down which I received for the above quote by FRAN shows how deceitful and false some are on this thread!!!!

THEREFORE we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the DEED/WORKS of the LAW

What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith

Even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes

For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith

Yes,
BUT
You NEVER explain what deeds of the Law are.

It's obvious you don't know or you'd explain it.
If you don't know what it means, maybe you could stop talking about it?

Deeds of the Law:
Works we do to try and gain God's approval but we lack the faith required to please God.
Without faith NO ONE can please God.
IF we have faith in God, the He DOES approve of our works...they are no longer done UNDER THE LAW but under grace.

We are God's hands and feet and He does require us to carry on His work here on earth.
He's not coming down here to feed the poor and clothe the naked and feed the hungry.
WE are supposed to do whatever it is God wants us to do.

Deeds of the Law are RIGHTEOUS works
Deeds of Grace are deeds God is happy about.

 

[BillG]

Hi BillG, discipleship can happen in a formal setting and also in an informal setting. Both are beneficial to bring a true believer to maturity in Christ. In a formal setting there should be guide lines and time limits set within the relationship so that you can each achieve your personal goals.

I agree with you Bill but could you explain what you meant by this quote:, "But if discipled correctly and yet rejects it then I would question them." Not sure what you mean by, "I would question them?" about there salvation?
Thanks brother....

Hi bro,

Yes discipleship is formal and informal.

Of course I can answer your question.

Basically it boils down to

Romans 5:20 - 6:3
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

So what I'm talking about here is a person who uses Gods grace to sin.

The reason I say this is because I had a close friend who was sleeping with his girlfriend. I was in the room above and I heard it all.
I was perplexed because to be honest I could not understand it.
As a believer who was messed up I did have sex before marriage.
When I did I was so wracked with guilt and was very heavy in my heart.

I asked him if he felt guilty. He said "No because God knows we are going to do it so it's already forgiven. No guilt at all.

Using grace to sin.

So what I'm trying to say is given my friend who is a believer and I quote the above verses and he turned around and says "I don't give two hoots I can do what I want and go to heaven"

Then I will question their belief in Jesus, hence their salvation.

I deliberately quoted verse 3 above 'Baptised"

I have the pleasure of baptising people.
Every person who I baptise I ask them following when they come to see me.

Romans 10:9
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Have you confessed with your mouth and believed he was raised from the dead.

I had to reject to baptising someone because they could not do that.
I asked them if they would do it and they said no.

So to me to disciple correctly is to use the word of God.
If they reject it then do they not reject Jesus as Lord and Saviour?

I'm not talking about works here.
We all know sanctification is a process and a walk.
For some its hard and for others it's easy.
The refiner in our lives will refine us and we will always seek that, even if at times we do not.

But a genuine beliver will never be happy when they have gone astray.

Those who have not made Jesus Lord will not give two hoots because they have no desire to walk on the level path God had called them walk on with him.

Does the above make sense?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Judas also called Jesus Rabbi , while the other Disciples called Him Lord...Right there also we can see the separation...xox...

1. Why did Judas take his own life out of desperation?

2. See Mathew 26:22 Who said Judas never called Jesus Lord??
22Being deeply grieved, they each one began to say to Him, “Surely not I, Lord?”

 

[GodsGrace101]

I use the coined phrase "Cainologist" because it accurately portrays one who peddles a working for dogma.....

Cain offered the works of his hands to GOD and was rejected.....he is identified in Jude as a false teacher................

Those who say faith plus works to gain, maintain, keep, finish, top off, or embellish salvation or a salvation that can be lost peddle the same drivel Cain offered.......

Didn't Able offer the "work of his hands"?
What's the difference?

 

[GodsGrace101]

The problem is we don't know what is in their hearts. Are they really saved or just copying others actions for for a while. At 74 I have witnessed this a few times. As a teen our youth pastor all of a sudden really found the lord. Shocked many in the church including me. That experience taught me we really don't know what others are unless we very carefully look look at their works. They can talk the talk but stumble once once in a while!

Did you just say we have to "look at their works"??

So are you saying that we do have to work if we're saved?
Or could we just choose not to?

If an unsaved person could work,,,
why would a saved person have a problem with this?

 

[GodsGrace101]

You should be careful, even in the very OT passage-she quoted, it says our righteous DEEDS are as filthy rags.

Righteous deeds (plural) is not our righteounsness (singular) as she is trying to say, is interpreted as good deeds or good works. Ie,our righteous works are as filthy rags

Paul used the same term in Titus 3 when he said not by works of righteousness (ie righteous deeds) which we have done, ut by his mercy, he saved us.

She is wrong in this manner.

I think the above member is right on track and understands about righteous deeds.
You might want to study up on it too....

 

[GodsGrace101]

I don't see the point you are making with this scripture. You will have to spell it out for me.

Maybe Dcon could explain it to you ....
You seem to trust him more than you trust me.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Adam doesnt really count hey, he was innocent and not "saved".
You dont need to be "saved" until yuo are "lost."

As for Judas, where does it say Judas was saved? Didnt Jesus say I chose you and ONE OF YOU is a devil?

Adam wasn't saved?
Was he lost?

Well, you're either one or the other.

He was made special by God...
He was immortal
He did not have to labor
He was the steward over the Garden
He was in harmony with the other human, with nature and with God.
He never got sick
etc

If HE wasn't saved, I don't know who was/is.

He LOST it and became lost when he sinned and DISOBEYED God.

If you could show me how Adam was LOST when God breathed life into him,,,,
but you won't be able to.


So Adam doesn't really count you say?
What about Judas?

Was HE ever saved and then became lost?
Jesus chose a LOST PERSON (a goat) to be one of the Apostles?
AND, made him the treasurer?


I'm afraid you're going to have to believe all I say like you promised to.

 

[VCO]

A worldwide instantaneous communication system is required for starters. And lo and behold here we have it, today. Oh one other interesting fact. The true location of Solomon's Temple is absolutely known.....see below. And it is NOT under the Dome of the Rock.....it is in the City of David. Squares with Scripture perfectly....

I have a thread called THIRD TEMPLE NEWS, I have all kinds of videos posted there. You should check it out. Most of the pages were from the Original Christian Chat, and they has Errors in Converting them, such as:

Matthew 24:2 (ESV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”

See the [SUP] just before and after the verse number, they were added during the conversion process. STRANGE ISN'T IT?


I had some of the some of the Videos by the LATEST Archaeologist Team, one of the was Jewish, actually Disappear after the Israeli Government Started investigating the dig at the site in the City of David. That Archaeologist Team, say it proved the Temple was in the City of David, and the Wall where the Jews Prayed was the Western Wall of Ft. Antonia. I suspect the Disappearance was a cover up by the ISRAELI Government, and now all you get when you click on those Videos is this WARNING:
Video unavailable
This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated.

I am highly suspicious, because this PROOF, would cause a MAJOR Disturbance in Israel. How do you tell the People that THEY have been praying at the WALL to Ft. Antonia for CENTURIES? I found Lots of opposition even among Christian here that did not agree with the Archaeologist's discoveries.

Here is a link to my Thread that was started Jul 17, 2017:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/third-temple-news.155526/

 

[GodsGrace101]

I'm sorry for all the posts....
the time difference does cause this at times.

 

[dcontroversal]

Maybe there's something to it?

Mathew 7:14 JESUS SAID
"The gate is small and the way is narrow...."

Why do you think Jesus said the above if getting into heaven is as easy as YOU claim?
FAITH ONLY does NOT work for God.
God wants obedience.
And He's not requesting it.
He's demanding it.

The exact opposite of what you think is the path and exactly why those that blend faith and works for will not make the cut....at the end of the day you do not trust JESUS, but rather yourself.......!!