Not By Works

GodsGrace101 · Feb 4, 2019

You're right.
We discard it...
and so we lose it.

Jesus said to hold on to it, Paul also, and all the other writers.

Some believe it's not possible to discard our love for God once we know its beauty.

But then why would the N.T. speak to this?
Just look at 2 Peter 2:20-22

Why would Paul give us so many warning?
All those IF's, CONTINUE's, FALLING AWAY's, HOLDING ON's.

Jesus said we are the salt of the earth...BUT if the salt BECOMES TASTELESS,
it is good for nothing but to be THROWN OUT and trampled on by men.
Mathew 5:13

It would be interesting to have an explanation of this by the OSAS believers.

P.S. I use the expression lost because Jesus did.
Luke 16:24

gb9 · Feb 4, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

this is 100% possible- people can CLAIM to be a believer, a Christ follower, but in reality not be.

this is something folks like you ignore- not everyone who claims to be a Christian is.

that is why we do not need to judge.

which is the end result of your theology- to judge.

what is the difference between a true Christ follower struggling with sin and a faker claiming to be a true believer who is just giving lip service?

stillness · Feb 4, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Actually he calls them yet carnal and babes in Christ....regardless......the bible does not peddle us embracing and coddling a person or group just because they name JESUS.....most religions peddle false gospels where one must HELP JESUS do that which he said he will do.........I am under no obligation to enter into fellowship with one that devalues Christ, his work and or his promises while trampling his blood and faith under their feet.....

preston39 · Feb 4, 2019

stillness said:

My catholoc

Shaking the dust of off our feet of people we don't discern as members of the body of Christ without slandering them as liars may be acceptable even if the board is in our own eye, as its the slander that disrupts our Love relationship with the Lord. They may be the ones with the speck that they cant pull out themselves and we should have no trouble seeing the board and getting it out ourselves. It may enrage us to see the Lord have compassion on such scum of the earth. The apostles were able to reckonise themselves as "The scum of the earth," and how great compassion the Lord showed them. I still grieve over having had a board in my eye from pride of achievement and not discern others accepted in the name of Jesus. This happened in the book of Acts after Paul shook the dust off a city off his feet, one year, and was received the following year had he slandered them it may not be so, and he may have lost his job, just kidding though. As obviously He was called and chosen and faithful to the point of death many times. This is the kind of patient endurance we need with one another, and I agree there are times to walk away. I experienced it here as well. As for me I don't see a difference of eternal security anywhere as its of God, but like you people here I struggle with those needing to enforce the law on others to feel better about themselves as Paul also mentioned. This is the worst nightmare and I also don't consider them lost but unable to grow up in their present condition, remaining as babes, and calling them babes isn't slander, but going beyond is. and we are better to walk away as you said shaking the dust of our feet, saying I can't fellowship with you it enrages me, would be fine but then walk away. Thanks for provoking me to answer and express. The Lord bless you on your Journey.

Assessing a person must be done in our Christian journey. That is not judgement or slander.......it is the required process if we are to do G-d's work. Yes...G-d's work!!!

GodsGrace101 · Feb 4, 2019

gb9 said:

MY theology judges?
I've never told anyone on here that they're going to hell.
I, OTOH, have been told many times.

Paul and Peter were not speaking to unbelievers...
they were speaking about believers.
2 Peter 2:20-22

Still waiting for that to be explained.
And so many other verse.

GodsGrace101 · Feb 4, 2019

preston39 said:

Judgement as I've seen practiced here, IS slander.
Discussing a difference of opinion is NOT slander.

First of all, we're not to judge someone's soul.
That is slightly above our pay grade and should be left to God alone.

Second, we can judge an action, or a belief, and disagree with it...
It's HOW we disagree that makes our inner self, our spirit, shine through.

Mathew 5:16 Jesus said:
16“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. "

Our we here allowing our light to shine when we post?

"By THIS shall all men know that you are my disciples...
IF you have love one for another..."
John 13:35 Again, words from Jesus.

UnderGrace · Feb 4, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

If Jesus states when we are born again we receive eternal life, Here ^^^^^^^^ you are stating that being born again is not in this life.

GodsGrace101 said:

So actually I misunderstand nothing

TruthTalk · Feb 4, 2019

calibob said:

Hi Calibob, I think you're on the right track for those who believe eternal salvation can be lost. In that case maybe 'forfeit' would be a more appropriate description for a "Losable salvation." also notice that you may have more than just a few people who will disagree with your idea....

For a true born again Christian however the word "lost or Losable salvation" is not in our daily vocabulary because once you are a son or daughter of the King you will always be a daughter or son of the King. The bible say's God will not leave us as an orphan and God's promises are always trustworthy and true.

John 14:18
"I will not leave you 'as orphans'; I will come to you.

Dictionary result for forfeit
for·feit /ˈfôrfət/verb
verb: forfeit; 3rd person present: forfeits; past tense: forfeited; past participle: forfeited; gerund or present participle: forfeiting

1.
lose or be deprived of (property or a right or privilege) as a penalty for wrongdoing.
- lose or give up (something) as a necessary consequence of something else.
  stables"synonyms:surrender, relinquish, hand over, deliver up, part with, yield, sacrifice, give up, renounce, be stripped of/deprived of, lose; More
  informalpass up, lose out on
adjective: forfeit

1.
lost or surrendered as a penalty for wrongdoing or neglect.
"the lands which he had acquired were automatically forfeit"
- Law
  an item of property or a right or privilege lost as a legal penalty.
- a game in which trivial penalties are exacted.
- the action of forfeiting something.

GodsGrace101 · Feb 4, 2019

UnderGrace said:

Study some theology UG.
I'm not here to teach YOU.

You'll receive your ETERNAL LIFE OR DEATH after you die.
Right now, YOU ARE NOT eternal,,, You are mortal.

TruthTalk · Feb 4, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

Here is an "explanation", why we believe in "Assurance of Salvation" which you call OSAS.

But as everyone on this thread understands that you, "discard", biblical proof so that you can support your counterfeit gospel.

TruthTalk said:

Amen decon, "Assurance of Salvation" is a proven doctrine of the Church; here are just a few verses in support of "Assurance of Salvation", from God's truth.

Assurance of Salvation

"The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,"

Romans 8:16

John 5:24 - "has eternal life"
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me 'has eternal life'. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 3:36 - "has eternal life"
Whoever believes in the Son 'has eternal life'; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Ephesians 2:8-9 - "have been saved"
For by grace you 'have been saved' through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 10:28 - "never parish"
I give them eternal life, and they will 'never perish', and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
1 John 5:13 - "that you may "know" that you have "eternal life."
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God 'that you may know that you have eternal life."
Romans 8:1 - "no condemnation"
There is therefore now 'no condemnation' for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Romans 10:13 - "will be saved"
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord 'will be saved.”
John 3:16 - "have eternal life"
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but
'have eternal life."
Romans 10:13-14 - "will be saved"
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
John 10:27-30 - "I give them eternal life"
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 'I give them eternal life', and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”
John 6:37 - "I will never cast out"
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me 'I will never cast out."
John 14:16 - our advocate "The Holy Spirit", will be with us "forever"
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and 'be with you forever.
Romans 8:38-39 - "nothing will separate us from the love of God."
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

UnderGrace · Feb 4, 2019

stillness said:

If they are lying it is not slander

stillness said:

Not sure what you mean here?

However the eternal assurance of the believer is the Gospel message, why you make ask

......... because Jesus paid the debt for all our sins!!

Justification is a legal transaction that very clearly declares the believer innocent of all charges, the debt is paid in full, once God declares a person innocent because the have accepted the debt payment they are justified, not guilty, completely exonerated.

Innocent is innocent, the debt is paid

The person does not have control over the judge’s decree and the judge cannot declare someone guilty of a debt if ALL the debt is paid and the person has received the gift of PAID IN FULL

End of Story.

This is the Gospel anything else is a False Gospel

TruthTalk · Feb 4, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

The bible say's God raised us up with Christ in Heavenly realms; you are wrong again and again and your fake gospel is the worst I have ever heard. If the bible disagrees with your "fake gospel" you just discard what the bible say's.

Ephesians 2:6
And God "raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms" in Christ Jesus

UnderGrace · Feb 4, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

My point is you have contradicted yourself, scripture and jesus

Jesus has made it very clear when we are born again here on earth we receive eternal life.

This is the heart of the Gospel.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes the one who sent me has eternal life and will not enter into judgment, but has moved from death to life"

"Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who believes has eternal life"

Matthew55 · Feb 4, 2019

TruthTalk said:

Don't be putting words in the church's mouth. There are thousands of Christian churches that teach many ways to be saved. Your particular church chooses the OSAS way. Many, many other Christian churches do not. Just look at this forum for my proof.

UnderGrace · Feb 4, 2019

TruthTalk said:

TruthTalk.......Amen!!!!

So Fake ...AND a complete Insult to Christ Jesus!!

Someone has been reading some really bad theologians, this is complete attack on the Gospel!!!!

UnderGrace · Feb 4, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

No Thank You, I have the Holy Spirit and I wait on on Him to reveal His Truth

I have limited knowledge but what I know is absolute Truth.

I have no need for books and more books trying to explain and make everything so complicated which only obfuscates the simplicity of the Gospel.

Hevosmies · Feb 4, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

They are two sides of the same coin. If you believe God knows everything beforehand, that means God has predestinated everything.

I have heard all the philosophical arguments aboutt knowing something is not the same as causing it, and I know all that. But if I know that putting an apple will guarantee my brother will eat it, and I put it there, then I through secondary causes predetermined he was going to do it. I already knew it, no chance he would choose otherwise, yet his choice to do so was FREE, no compulsion involved.

Matthew55 · Feb 4, 2019

UnderGrace said:

What version of the bible are you using for truly, truly, I say to you...............

GodsGrace101 · Feb 4, 2019

TruthTalk said:

Well TT, Thank you for telling me I'm wrong instead of calling me a liar.
I find this to be an important improvement.

First of all, I MAY be wrong about something....are YOU right about everything?
This does not make my theology wrong....

Ephesians 2:6 is speaking of a spiritual reality.

Ephesians 2:1-7
1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

You're still here on earth...you're not up in heaven yet...
Ephesians is speaking about how we were DEAD before...
We're born dead to God...unaware that we must be born from above as Jesus said in John 3.
verse 2 states that the SPIRIT of the power of the air, satan, is working in the sons of disobedience.
Which included us. We were children of wrath.

But God, being merciful, made us ALIVE IN CHRIST.
Our spirit is no longer dead, but has become alive to the spirit of God and thus we are now truly alive.
Through the resurrection we are also made alive,,,in spirit
and one day physically alive forever when we become immortal in our new body.

We have not yet attained our immortal body.

Please notice that everywhere in the N.T. is states we are alive IN CHRIST.
Only by abiding in Christ are we alive...only by clinging to the vine.

As far as God is concerned,,,,we are seated in heavenly places with Jesus as long as we remain in Jesus.

God is without time....
But we are...so we can understand that this is happening spiritually, but in time will be true.

GodsGrace101 · Feb 4, 2019

Hevosmies said:

I don't find a problem with the above.
I DO find problems when some say God predestined everything and we thus have no free will....
Or, as calvinists will say, we have compatible free will...which is NO FREE WILL in essence.

This is how I understand it...
God foreknows everything.
He allows us to have free will.
He predestines HOW we can be saved.
And...He is sovereign, and, in the end, HIS Will will prevail.

Each football player can decide what to do on the field....
But the game will be won by whom God chooses.

(In this case the Patriot's...again!)

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