Speaking in tongues

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Jul 23, 2018
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Doesn't matter; death can be through illness and there are no people today with the gift of healing or any other gift. They all ceased.
That only works in your circles.
Any athlete can gorge on the bad stuff at Ihop and passively take themselves out.
Thats all the cessationist does. Gorge on one dimensional verses,omit any hope of God still in power,and just remove yourselves from the battle.
Thats all you do.
I refuse to sit up to that table.

The cessationist deal only works in your circles.
Heaven never quit.
Your leaders did
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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God sees death differently God sees all
Through the eternal.
His saints coming home is just that.
But they can not kill you till God says " bring him home"
Again,its multifaceted,not one dimemsional.
The death component is supposed to be integrated at salvation.
My life belongs to him.
The Father didn't change.
Heaven still looks like heaven
Jesus still has power
Miracles are normal for those operating in the gifts
The i want to understand this:

John 14:12Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Can you or are you doing greater works than Jesus ever did?
It is very simple, if your answer is no then cessation it is or we can say that you are not a believer, but if your answer is yes, i also want to know what works you are doing?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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That only works in your circles.
Any athlete can gorge on the bad stuff at Ihop and passively take themselves out.
Thats all the cessationist does. Gorge on one dimensional verses,omit any hope of God still in power,and just remove yourselves from the battle.
Thats all you do.
I refuse to sit up to that table.

The cessationist deal only works in your circles.
Heaven never quit.
Your leaders did
Then you don't understand cessationism, it is not about God losing power.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Yeah,
We all know satan goes about healing people,preaching the Gospel,and leading them to Jesus.
Thats why people go to bars and clubs to get healed,saved,and hear satan praising God in tongues.

Oh wait,thats how you see charismatics,right?
Not me, Jesus:

Matt 7:
21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Many means many and since these people are not; Muslims/Hindus/Atheists/Satanists, we know they are so called Christians.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
The i want to understand this:

John 14:12Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Can you or are you doing greater works than Jesus ever did?
It is very simple, if your answer is no then cessation it is or we can say that you are not a believer, but if your answer is yes, i also want to know what works you are doing?

well here is the same supposed trick question you presented in the thread on praying in tongues

you were answered but negated the answer because you are LOOKING for a certain answer which means you have an agenda and are not coming to the Bible with an honest heart. you seek to mock and create chaos

what works are you doing? FYI, it is by faith in the risen Christ we do any works at all

it seems your work is to continue your assault against the portions of the Bible you find are not active in your own life

perhaps you should ask God why that is :unsure:
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Oh, so wrong.

Noose and Garee, I understand about this vendetta you have against the Pentecostals. I am sorry if some have hurt you in the past. I am praying that God lets you overcome you hurt. Speaking against the gifts of the HS will not earn you any points with God. You are risking getting very far off track with God's word. :cool:

you think they are hurt?

really? I have been hurt many times by other Christians and by those who claim to be speaking in tongues etc

that never negates the truth of the word

they aren't hurt IMO...but very forgiving of you to say
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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well here is the same supposed trick question you presented in the thread on praying in tongues

you were answered but negated the answer because you are LOOKING for a certain answer which means you have an agenda and are not coming to the Bible with an honest heart. you seek to mock and create chaos

what works are you doing? FYI, it is by faith in the risen Christ we do any works at all

it seems your work is to continue your assault against the portions of the Bible you find are not active in your own life

perhaps you should ask God why that is :unsure:
It is not a trick question, it is a verse from the bible. Do you skip over that verse when you read your bible?
Can you heal many/ can you raise the dead/ can you do many miracles- if you can not, don't blame me, but i know why.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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What possibly could our Lord know about healing? He knew everything about healing and every miracle. They were not for your happiness but to validate the message and the messenger, but after the message was preached, no more miracles, no more gifts.

Mark 16: 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked through them,confirming His word by the signs that accompanied it.

Heb 2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? This salvation was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4and was affirmed by God through signs,wonders, various miracles, and gifts of the HolySpirit distributed according to His will.

No one today, has been appointed by God to preach the gospel.
I would agree the sign that followed the un-seen miracle "mankind hearing the gospel and believing in a God not seen" It is shown in many parables .

Signs in the scripture as a shadow.... follow and do not lead. Like the sign that reads. "You have just left the city limits of Chicago come again or you have just left the city limit of Corinth .

Like the sign of those who are not effected by poisonous lies of another gospel, another christ, as a unseen mediator describing the antichrists as the poison of serpents drinking his poisonous lies. The true believer will not be affected by the false gospel, the poison of asps .

Mark 16:17-19 King James Version (KJV) And these signs shall "follow them" that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Serpents....lying spirits...…. attempting to make the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God without effect..

Drink deadly things ….another christ another gospel which is not good news but rather news a person does not believe in a God not seen who makes himself know by the writing of his finger, as it is written.

The sign is they did "believe" it was imputed to them according to the work of Christ's faith as a labor of His love .it worked in the apostles not of coming from the apostles.. and it was not after the sign used as a metaphor for poison that revealed false prophecy as lies coming from the father of lies . They have the privilege to lay their will before the throne of grace and any sickness resulting in being subject to a false gospel they shall recover of their sin of unbelief. .
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
It is not a trick question, it is a verse from the bible. Do you skip over that verse when you read your bible?
Can you heal many/ can you raise the dead/ can you do many miracles- if you can not, don't blame me, but i know why.

sadly it is a trick question because you were answered in that other thread and refused that answer and now you are doing the same thing here

you are not omnipresent, so how can you state no one has experienced miracles or the dead being raised? the real truth here is that you don't believe them even when they testify to those very things...which really sheds light on what you do believe

do you believe Jesus did miracles? of course you will say yes...but of course you do not as you do your best to negate anything of any sort of supernatural origin
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
this is the proper understanding of what Jesus meant. it was not a challenge to go out and walk on water

I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. (John 14:12)

so, the greater works can only happen BECAUSE Jesus is 'going to His Father'. THEREFORE we can understand that His departure from the planet is imperative to fulfill the 'greater works' . what is the condition of being able to do greater works is the first question to be asked here AND that would be the fulfillment of the promise of the Holy Spirit...Jesus told his followers to wait for that promise to be fulfilled

the Holy Spirit falls upon the 120 + believers in the upper room recorded in Acts. no one has had this experience yet.

interestingly, we find a similar statement regarding the word 'greater' in Matthew:

I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (Matt. 11:11)

so why is that? why is the least in the kingdom of heaven greater than Jesus cousin even though Jesus says no one has risen greater than John the Baptist? John acted as a prophet, or forerunner of Jesus but he was not a part of the kingdom Jesus preached. the members of the kingdom Jesus preached are those bought by His blood and filled with the Spirit of God promised to believers.

the work of Christ on earth is not the work the disciples were asked to fulfill...go into all nations. Jesus actually preached in a very limited area.

no one with the correct interpretation will go out expecting to be greater than Jesus. the multitude of the works are increased and the gospel is preached to all nations .

Noose is not satisfied with this answer because it does not play into his agenda
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
I would agree the sign that followed the un-seen miracle "mankind hearing the gospel and believing in a God not seen" It is shown in many parables .

Signs in the scripture as a shadow.... follow and do not lead. Like the sign that reads. "You have just left the city limits of Chicago come again or you have just left the city limit of Corinth .

Like the sign of those who are not effected by poisonous lies of another gospel, another christ, as a unseen mediator describing the antichrists as the poison of serpents drinking his poisonous lies. The true believer will not be affected by the false gospel, the poison of asps .

Mark 16:17-19 King James Version (KJV) And these signs shall "follow them" that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Serpents....lying spirits...…. attempting to make the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God without effect..

Drink deadly things ….another christ another gospel which is not good news but rather news a person does not believe in a God not seen who makes himself know by the writing of his finger, as it is written.

The sign is they did "believe" it was imputed to them according to the work of Christ's faith as a labor of His love .it worked in the apostles not of coming from the apostles.. and it was not after the sign used as a metaphor for poison that revealed false prophecy as lies coming from the father of lies . They have the privilege to lay their will before the throne of grace and any sickness resulting in being subject to a false gospel they shall recover of their sin of unbelief. .
I think that statement meant just that, the physical signs because we have in the same list, miracles and tongues. You can not allegorize these.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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this is the proper understanding of what Jesus meant. it was not a challenge to go out and walk on water

I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. (John 14:12)

so, the greater works can only happen BECAUSE Jesus is 'going to His Father'. THEREFORE we can understand that His departure from the planet is imperative to fulfill the 'greater works' . what is the condition of being able to do greater works is the first question to be asked here AND that would be the fulfillment of the promise of the Holy Spirit...Jesus told his followers to wait for that promise to be fulfilled

the Holy Spirit falls upon the 120 + believers in the upper room recorded in Acts. no one has had this experience yet.

interestingly, we find a similar statement regarding the word 'greater' in Matthew:

I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (Matt. 11:11)

so why is that? why is the least in the kingdom of heaven greater than Jesus cousin even though Jesus says no one has risen greater than John the Baptist? John acted as a prophet, or forerunner of Jesus but he was not a part of the kingdom Jesus preached. the members of the kingdom Jesus preached are those bought by His blood and filled with the Spirit of God promised to believers.

the work of Christ on earth is not the work the disciples were asked to fulfill...go into all nations. Jesus actually preached in a very limited area.

no one with the correct interpretation will go out expecting to be greater than Jesus. the multitude of the works are increased and the gospel is preached to all nations .

Noose is not satisfied with this answer because it does not play into his agenda
You are a BLESSING to me!

i was about to write the same. You spared me the time! HAH! Now I can just sit back and watch everyone disagree with our view!
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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There's no context that can reverse what has been said. If precious in the eyes of the Lord is the death of His saints then it is indeed precious in His eyes. You don't want it to be precious because it destroys the notion that God has appointed many believers in church to heal people against His own will (Psalms 116:15).
In-fact Jesus says the days of the elect is shortened here on earth, but to you it somehow means that the appointed healers can go about lengthening people's days here on earth.
Never said that why do you continue to lie. Nor have any even suggested that. At no time has anyone said a "healer" can lengthen a person days on earth, BUT GOD can and has and does. Please stop saying falsehoods.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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sadly it is a trick question because you were answered in that other thread and refused that answer and now you are doing the same thing here

you are not omnipresent, so how can you state no one has experienced miracles or the dead being raised? the real truth here is that you don't believe them even when they testify to those very things...which really sheds light on what you do believe

do you believe Jesus did miracles? of course you will say yes...but of course you do not as you do your best to negate anything of any sort of supernatural origin
The question has not been answered yet but i have heard many excuses as to why people do not do greater works than Jesus.
I don't have to be omnipresent to know that the miracles that happen today are fake, i just have to read the bible:

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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The question has not been answered yet but i have heard many excuses as to why people do not do greater works than Jesus.
I don't have to be omnipresent to know that the miracles that happen today are fake, i just have to read the bible:

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.
Uhh.

So here is your reasoning then: There will be false prophets and false wonders and signs, THEREFORE: there wont be any REAL signs and wonders?

Oy vey! Thats a logical leap, to the wrong pond!

In order for there to be false signs, there should be some real ones too.

I've never understood this idea that the devil is constantly doing miracles, signs and wonders, yet God is never doing anything.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
God sees death differently God sees all
Through the eternal.
His saints coming home is just that.
But they can not kill you till God says " bring him home"
Again,its multifaceted,not one dimemsional.
The death component is supposed to be integrated at salvation.
My life belongs to him.
The Father didn't change.
Heaven still looks like heaven
Jesus still has power
Miracles are normal for those operating in the gifts
Man is born into a body of death. The promise was a person will die. Faith died. God no longer spoke to mankind as a body The new creature (Abel) began the work of preaching the gospel .

A couple of way it could be looked at

Miracles alone without a sign following are normal for those operating in the spiritual gifts as those who walk by faith (the unseen) ?

Miracles are normal for those operating in the literal as that seen, promoting gifts are as signs or sign gifts that lead in a hope of confirming something. Sign follow revealing that other did not hear and therefore believe the gospel
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,073
4,360
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Uhh.

So here is your reasoning then: There will be false prophets and false wonders and signs, THEREFORE: there wont be any REAL signs and wonders?

Oy vey! Thats a logical leap, to the wrong pond!

In order for there to be false signs, there should be some real ones too.

I've never understood this idea that the devil is constantly doing miracles, signs and wonders, yet God is never doing anything.
I find that those making the argument of rational, coherent reasoning about the gift of tongues cannot apply that to the very word of God. You make an outstanding Biblical point of contextualization of Scriptures.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
this is the proper understanding of what Jesus meant. it was not a challenge to go out and walk on water

I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. (John 14:12)

so, the greater works can only happen BECAUSE Jesus is 'going to His Father'. THEREFORE we can understand that His departure from the planet is imperative to fulfill the 'greater works' . what is the condition of being able to do greater works is the first question to be asked here AND that would be the fulfillment of the promise of the Holy Spirit...Jesus told his followers to wait for that promise to be fulfilled

the Holy Spirit falls upon the 120 + believers in the upper room recorded in Acts. no one has had this experience yet.

interestingly, we find a similar statement regarding the word 'greater' in Matthew:

I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (Matt. 11:11)

so why is that? why is the least in the kingdom of heaven greater than Jesus cousin even though Jesus says no one has risen greater than John the Baptist? John acted as a prophet, or forerunner of Jesus but he was not a part of the kingdom Jesus preached. the members of the kingdom Jesus preached are those bought by His blood and filled with the Spirit of God promised to believers.

the work of Christ on earth is not the work the disciples were asked to fulfill...go into all nations. Jesus actually preached in a very limited area.

no one with the correct interpretation will go out expecting to be greater than Jesus. the multitude of the works are increased and the gospel is preached to all nations .

Noose is not satisfied with this answer because it does not play into his agenda
Nope. I'm not satisfied with the answer because i know exactly what works are:

John 5:
8Then Jesus told him, “Get up, pick up your mat, and walk.”
9Immediately the man was made well, and he picked up his mat and began to walk.
Now this happened on the Sabbath day, .....
16Now because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews began to persecute Him. 17But Jesus answered them, “To this very day My Father is at His work, and I too am working.”

John 9:
1Now as Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth, 2and His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him. 4While it is daytime, we must do the works of Him who sent Me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”.

John 10:
31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. 32But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”

33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”

From the above, we know that the works that Jesus was talking about was the miracles, anyone trying some great explanation as to why it is not miracles is at loss. The works do not mean preaching the gospel and greater in any context and any language still remains greater.

Do not look for an excuse and hide behind the church because the promise is for individuals (whoever believes), not the church.

Try again.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Never said that why do you continue to lie. Nor have any even suggested that. At no time has anyone said a "healer" can lengthen a person days on earth, BUT GOD can and has and does. Please stop saying falsehoods.
The precious in the eyes of God is the death of His saints.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
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Do not look for an excuse and hide behind the church because the promise is for individuals (whoever believes), not the church.
Just pointing this out here that the CHURCH (ekklesia, called out ones) are comprised of individuals