Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
For goodness sakes H,
You swing back and forth more than a tiny branch on a big tree!
You know very well you're on the other side...but here it goes...

I THINK you're referring to 1 John 5:13 (this is why it would be nice to post scripture)

1 John 5:13
13These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

We can be secure IN JESUS. I said I believe in Eternal Security. Eternal Security has conditions that must be met.

Notice in 1 John 5:13 John says that he's writing so we can know we have eternal life...
What is the condition? John says what it is:

"I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God".......

IF we believe in the name of God,,,AT THAT MOMENT OF TIME IN OUR LIVES....
We can be morally secure in our salvation.

But what if we STOP believing in Jesus?
If believing is a condition...and we stop believing,,,are we still saved?

You have to make up your mind about becoming lost again after salvation.
Is it possible or not?
i have already made up my mind, im just trying to understand you guys. I like to think of eternal life as...... well everlasting life.

Therefore the idea that it can 'stop' is just nonsensical.

But i wanna take a look at what you said: Eternal life is something we get afteer we die. Yet its spoken of in the present tense, as you quoted above, and then the condition is belief, right?

So I believe right now in Jesus, i got eternal life. (present tense in the verse).
I stop believing tomorrow, now i dont have eternal life.

^Was my life 'eternal' to begin with? You see that would work IF its like you said that we only get it after we die, but because the verse says HAVE (hath) eternal life. Not WILL have in the future, maybe.

You see my point there?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
U

UnderGrace

Guest
i have already made up my mind, im just trying to understand you guys. I like to think of eternal life as...... well everlasting life.

Therefore the idea that it can 'stop' is just nonsensical.

But i wanna take a look at what you said: Eternal life is something we get afteer we die. Yet its spoken of in the present tense, as you quoted above, and then the condition is belief, right?

So I believe right now in Jesus, i got eternal life. (present tense in the verse).
I stop believing tomorrow, now i dont have eternal life.

^Was my life 'eternal' to begin with? You see that would work IF its like you said that we only get it after we die, but because the verse says HAVE (hath) eternal life. Not WILL have in the future, maybe.

You see my point there?
Eternal life is in the present world.....eternal life is "quality of life"

“as You (the Father) have given Him (the Son) authority over all flesh, that He (the Son) should give eternal life to as many as You (the Father) have given Him (the Son). And this is eternal life, that they may know You (the Father), the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:2-3 – NKJV)
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
i have already made up my mind, im just trying to understand you guys. I like to think of eternal life as...... well everlasting life.

Therefore the idea that it can 'stop' is just nonsensical.

But i wanna take a look at what you said: Eternal life is something we get afteer we die. Yet its spoken of in the present tense, as you quoted above, and then the condition is belief, right?

So I believe right now in Jesus, i got eternal life. (present tense in the verse).
I stop believing tomorrow, now i dont have eternal life.

^Was my life 'eternal' to begin with? You see that would work IF its like you said that we only get it after we die, but because the verse says HAVE (hath) eternal life. Not WILL have in the future, maybe.

You see my point there?
I see you point, but eternal life depends on Jesus.
I've been writing to EG about this.
IF you believe in Jesus, you have the hope of eternal life,,,or you have it at that moment in time.
What if you stop believing in Jesus? If eternal life is IN HIM, and you don't believe in Him anymore...do yo still have eternal life?

Your problem is that you believe you can't lose your salvation.

Now think about this.
How does Pres of the Saints jive with these verses about Eternal Life being IN THE FUTURE...
We have a HOPE of having it,,,but we have not attained it yet...

Check these out... I have to leave soon and can't post them.
Romans 8:24-25
Hebrews 11:1
1 Peter 1:5
1 Peter 3:15
Titus 1:2
Titus 3:7
John 10:28 (you must be a sheep of Christ to receive eternal life)
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
Eternal life is in the present world.....eternal life is "quality of life"

“as You (the Father) have given Him (the Son) authority over all flesh, that He (the Son) should give eternal life to as many as You (the Father) have given Him (the Son). And this is eternal life, that they may know You (the Father), the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:2-3 – NKJV)
...We know that we have come to KNOW HIM if we OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
13,419
113
58
Oh ye of little faith

1. John says we have it right now.

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

What is faith?

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Where does it come from

Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

What is our hope?

Titus 1:2
in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Titus 3:7
that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Conclusion

1. We have eternal life
2 our faith in god is based on this FACT
3, if we do not have it, we have no hope. Thus have no faith, and are left hopeless
Amen! Eternal life is a present possession for believers. John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. :)

This hope we have is not some cross your fingers, uncertain kind of hope. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this hope. Faith is the substance of things HOPED for.. (Hebrews 11:1). So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life (Titus 3:7).

Those who have not placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation do not have this certain hope and can only cross their fingers with an uncertain hope of being saved after death based on the merits of their performance, which is hopeless. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. Not hard to understand. Just hard for many people to ACCEPT.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
I notice someone asking if Eternal Life can be lost.
Jesus did answer that question, "I have thde power to lay down my Life and have the power to take it up again."
God can't be lost: He gave Himself to us, that we would have Life in His name.
"As we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, we have fellowship One with another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin."
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
1. How am I attacking people who trust God?
I think it's YOU who keeps attacking ME.
Oh by continually slandering them with lies?

2. John was concerned with gnosticism.
When he said that....he meant THE GNOSTICS that tried to join the new Christians so as to TEACH them with incorrect doctrine. John said THEY, the gnostics, were NOT OF THEM.


Why don't you just look this up and find out for yourself?
Good way to ignore what john said, you can not take away the fact he said whoever leaves was never of us, gnostic or not, it would never t make a difference if they were gmostic or not. Your just trying to get gnore what he said.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
I see you point, but eternal life depends on Jesus.
I've been writing to EG about this.
IF you believe in Jesus, you have the hope of eternal life,,,or you have it at that moment in time.
What if you stop believing in Jesus? If eternal life is IN HIM, and you don't believe in Him anymore...do yo still have eternal life?

Your problem is that you believe you can't lose your salvation.

Now think about this.
How does Pres of the Saints jive with these verses about Eternal Life being IN THE FUTURE...
We have a HOPE of having it,,,but we have not attained it yet...

Check these out... I have to leave soon and can't post them.
Romans 8:24-25
Hebrews 11:1
1 Peter 1:5
1 Peter 3:15
Titus 1:2
Titus 3:7
John 10:28 (you must be a sheep of Christ to receive eternal life)
Ahaa.

did i understand right: You are saying that 1 john 5:13 means that if you believe now, you have the HOPE of eternal life, at that moment? but its not actually yet?

If thats the case. No wonder we disagree. We got a different view on the verse! I take it as, if you believe now, it means you have right now eternal life, wont ever end, since you know Jesus.
This also answers your question about perseveraanceof the saints: How to know you're REALLY elect? By 1 john 5:13 !
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I see you point, but eternal life depends on Jesus.
I've been writing to EG about this.
IF you believe in Jesus, you have the hope of eternal life,,,or you have it at that moment in time.
What if you stop believing in Jesus? If eternal life is IN HIM, and you don't believe in Him anymore...do yo still have eternal life?

Your problem is that you believe you can't lose your salvation.

Now think about this.
How does Pres of the Saints jive with these verses about Eternal Life being IN THE FUTURE...
We have a HOPE of having it,,,but we have not attained it yet...

Check these out... I have to leave soon and can't post them.
Romans 8:24-25
Hebrews 11:1
1 Peter 1:5
1 Peter 3:15
Titus 1:2
Titus 3:7
John 10:28 (you must be a sheep of Christ to receive eternal life)
It would not be eternal life then it would be conditional life

The words itself prove you wrong,
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Amen! Eternal life is a present possession for believers. John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. :)

This hope we have is not some cross your fingers, uncertain kind of hope. Unlike the english word "hope," the N.T. word contains no uncertainty; it speaks of something that is certain. - Strong's #1680 elpís (from elpō, "to anticipate, welcome") – properly, expectation of what is sure (certain); hope. If we have saving faith in Christ, then we have this hope. Faith is the substance of things HOPED for.. (Hebrews 11:1). So that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life (Titus 3:7).

Those who have not placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation do not have this certain hope and can only cross their fingers with an uncertain hope of being saved after death based on the merits of their performance, which is hopeless. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. Not hard to understand. Just hard for many people to ACCEPT.
Jesus said in john6 not to work for food which perishes but food which endures forever, he said eat and drink this food and you will never hunger and thirst again.

These people call him a liar, theynsay you can eat and drink, and yet still start to death.

Not sure what they are eating, but its not from God
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
@NoNameMcgee

See. This is what I mean.
YOU posted scripture.
I answered to it.
You made some wise comments.
I asked you to please reply to me (see above)
YOU disappear.

This seems to be the modus operandi in this thread.
Is it because you don't know enough ?
Is it because you're not sure about your answer?
Is it because you just like to make wise comments and then leave?

How about coming back here and having a real discussion?
Are you afraid it might make you change your mind and you're too comfy in your present comfort zone?


WHAT??

lol my world does not revolve around you

would you like me to go back to every time you didnt respond to me?

honestly your attitude is unpleasant

you called me young this time instead of your usual "cute" remark

implied i dont get my beliefs from scripture

and said the same garbage you always say... you did not say anything new or worth replying to you in your post

stop with your ridiculous baiting tactics

im not afraid of satan or his workers


some confused snarky lady with a false gospel isnt going to scare me


also more false claims

ive spent many hours trying from the bottom of my heart to remove those goggles that blind you from understanding Gods word


when youre trapped you leave

when i post only scripture you call it cute

when i use logic you say i dont post scripture

while you bait and switch in a subtle way the whole time


im not playing by your rules lady


i have a lovely woman and work 12 hours every day

ill come knock down your errors when i have time



but ill open with many quotes backing up everything i just said


then ill do what i have done so many times before

post scripture that destroys your false religion of man
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Sure.
But you're not too interested in sanctification.
See there you go attacking people with slanderous lies again.

Breaking comandments is common place for you though, so i guess it just fits who you are
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
Eternal life is the crown of salvation, not everyone who is saved gets one.
Why have you been standing here all day idle? 'No one hired us.' 'Go also into my vineyard and what is right I will give you." These are the servants of the Lord who are past being a child who is forgiven, and past being idle. These are labourers with God, past little children 12 years of age. Noticed they were standing idle, the ones who obeyed the word received a crown. How do I know its a crown? You mean How come you don't know its a crown...
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
This 51 year old man is in need tears here.
Say all you want, open up all you want.
When we do then we get to know the person.

Thank you God that Goodnewsman's children did not die in this collision.
Thank you that they off thier walkers, and that Goodnewsman can walk with them.

We praise you and thank you.
Your mercies are new every morning and great is your faithfulness towards us.

We have 4 kids.

Jack 21, Katie 19, Lucy soon to be 17 and Emma who is 15 but sometimes acts like 21, and 5.

They are all believers.
I am so thankful for that.
I love them play on the piano and using that gift to praise God.

Emma joins my wife and I when we pray.
Boy she prays really spirit filled prayers.

Anyway I have gone on a bit, but do you know what?

If God said to me tonight when I went to bed "You are coming home tonight" I would die a happy man. Because I know my 4 kids have placed thier faith in Jesus.

The first thing I did when all were born was to lift them up to the Father.
Thank you brother, God used you today to help me more than you'll ever know. I sat in my vehicle for nearly two hours typing what little I did through tears

What a blessing that all your kids are believers. That is a testimony of good kids and good parents

I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
3 John 1:4 KJV

We have 3 kids
Katelyn 19
Codey 20
Corey 9 going on 19 lol

I encouraged my daughter to write in a journal during there long stay at the hospital.......She said she looked over at my son and the dash was all around him and they were using the jaws of life to get him out and he had a woman by the hand and was praying for God to help the EMT's. Then he reached out to her hand and they prayed together.......man I could go on

Please pray for my daughter she fights alot of guilt due to all this....but it has certainly brought them even closer than they were

Again.....thanks
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
]Paul was worried that some of them may be deceived just like eve was deceived.

...But I AM AFRAID that just as Eve was DECEIVED by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be LED ASTRAY from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”... Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God. If they were deceived, why can't you?

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why refuse to take heed of them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?