Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
W


Was Judas born a devil?

When his mother cooked his fevered brow and kissed him as a baby....was he a devil?

When he ran and played with other kids in the yard....was he a a devil?

No more than you and I......

I agree Jesus called Judas knowing what he would do, but please tell me, did God force Judas to betray? Or was it Satan who tempted him?

Just as God calls people today that he can see down the road will betray him yet his Mercy still reaches for them

Jesus looked at Peter and said "get behind me Satan, thou savorest not the things which be of God"

As far as your argument that you compare Judas to those in Matthew saying did we not........this is a nonsensical argument. The big difference was Jesus called Judas and ordained him an apostle..... empowered him to preach the gospel
Jesus would not be able to say to Judas in judgement "I never knew you'
These people also quote this verse below but i'm not sure if they believe the scriptures they 're quoting...

NIV1984 Romans 8:30-33 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? WHO WILL BRING ANY CHARGE AGAINST THOSE WHOM GOD HAS CHOSEN? It is God who justifies.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Dear on fire of God, I also believe there is difference between men, and women and children here. Women and children are not called to bear the cross with Him. To a woman the Lord said: Stay on the Rock. To me the Lord said: Stay on the cross. Neither does it need to be proven, just to ponder, obviously not everyone is called to the work of God, neither does a man take it of himself as it would be his work and not His work. The Lord did make it clear to His disciples, daily bear the cross and follow Him. It may be wrong on my part to provoke some to godly jealousy; but to explain there is a calling to the work of God, that those who are not called will not understand and even if they understand, need to get past their understanding to, "Go also in My vineyard and what is right I will give you." Otherwise thinking they understood would think they are there already. We are here because we are not all there. Yes humor needs help like everyone else recovering, and God is Gracious and Merciful and we must Go on to know the Lord, being vulnerable to His Love for His Love to Know us.
In the Spirit there is neither male nor female. ;)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,488
13,427
113
58
Its the same trick the ADVENTISTS pull. Oh yeah you're saved by grace through faith, but not keeping the sabbath IS living in constant sin, and you can lose your salvation if you continue in it :) Oh and btw going to church on sunday(first day of the week on which the early church gathered) can cause you to take the mark of the beast later on when sunday worship is enforced. :) But we love you, look at us smile :)
Amen! SDA's play the same game in salvation as every other false movement of Christendom. They profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to the gospel. Even though they deny this, they teach that salvation is by "grace plus law, faith plus works." Their doctrine is more than a subtle mixture of law and grace which is a perversion of the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

...Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and WILL EXPOSE THE MOTIVES OF MEN'S HEARTS. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For WHO MAKES YOU DIFFERENT FROM ANYONE ELSE? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, WHY DO YOU BOAST as though you did not? Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! YOU HAVE BECOME KINGS—and that WITHOUT US! How I wish that you really had become kings so that we might be kings with you! 1 Corinthians 4:5-8

...God had planned something better for us so that only TOGETHER WITH US WOULD THEY BE MADE PERFECT. Hebrews 11:40

Judas was made an EXAMPLE of how people would betray Jesus by this wicked generation...GREED, LAWLESSNESS and UNBELIEF... ( see 2 timothy 3:1-5) contrary to the EXAMPLES that Jesus has set for us to follow...TO WALK IN LOVE (1 John 2:6 & 2 John 1:6

Why Judas?

If he did not do what was prophecied then prophecy would have failed and put God into shame which is IMPOSSIBLE.

If not Judas then God can pick anyone else to do that role but HE WAS CHOSEN for that role.

...For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. Romans 9:15,17-18

Is God unjust that after making you do a job he purposed you to do then He will just leave you unpaid?

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard
...“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard. “About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ So they went. “He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’ “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered. “He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’ “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’ “The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. ‘These men who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’ “But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’ “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”
Matthew 20:1-16

Another thing to consider, Judas was deceived by the devil just as Eve was deceived.

So don't let anyone DECEIVE you.
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
He's the Shepherd, the Good One -- not me


Know that the LORD is God.
It is He who made us, and we are His;
we are His people, the sheep of His pasture.
(Psalm 100:3)
Behold! I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world!
Amen!
(Matthew 28:20)

Yes He is the Good Shepherd.


He taught His disciples to do the works that He did.


  • He said to him, “Tend My sheep.


Jesus doesn’t preach the Gospel to unbelievers, He is in heaven.


Jesus doesn’t go after lost sheep, He is in heaven.



He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Tend My sheep.” John 21:16





JPT
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
I can not comprehend how some of the posts on this thread come from the Spirit of Truth.
First of a, lets all get on the sa.e page and start with believing in the sa.e TRUE doctrine of the New Testament. A doctrine that has been twisted, . manipulated, and flat out changed from it's original content of truth since shortly after the original disciples were martyred (a few hundred years)
The "Pauline Doctrine of Justification Solely by Faith" is the original and true doctrine of the New Testament.
Who is with, and against me on this claim?
This doctrine is so central to the Christian faith that the apostle Paul proclaimed an anathema upon anyone who would pervert it (Gal. 1:6-9).

Was reading about it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home.
(Luke 15:4-6)
They think god asks people to do what he will not do, making himself lower than these people

But they can not see they spit on Gods character when they do this
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
This doctrine is so central to the Christian faith that the apostle Paul proclaimed an anathema upon anyone who would pervert it (Gal. 1:6-9).!

Was reading about it.
Hi stonesoffire, I stand with you in agreement that our eternal salvation is; Justification by Faith Alone, as was our Father Abraham. Any other gospel is actually no gospel at all and if you are pushing a counterfeit gospel you are "under a divine curse!

Amen! "No other Gospel"

The "Pauline Doctrine of Justification Solely by Faith" is the original and true doctrine of the New Testament.

Who is with, and against me on this claim?
Amen!

Galatians 1:6-9: "No Other Gospel"
6)
I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7) which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.

8) But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! 9) As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
In the Spirit there is neither male nor female. ;)
lol, I agree with you and am not the one who made the statement first. Jesus told this to Colton Burpo, when he was in heaven. His Father was angry at God that his boy died. Women and children don't seam to have this trouble, and can let go of desiring control much easier, yes they have trouble and there were women dictators like Jezebel... But she would not be included in this statement. Should I need to explain that men are born in trouble. "Man that is born of women is of few days and full of trouble." Of few days: remaining a child looking for the comfort of mother, codependent in the marriage and abusive when not getting his... having lost sight of the Lord. Yes some will grow up in Christ, few.
"Strive to enter in at the straight gate, for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter in and shall not be able." I am of the understanding, that when the number of them that have suffered with Him and received a crown of eternal live if fulfilled, this will be all over. We have a few years left, why would the Lord call me if I had not time and opportunity to fulfil my calling. "Neither do I consider to have attained but I press on." Many are called but few are chosen."
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
Jesus must have missed that book when he explained the parable of the wheat and tares and EVERYTHING had meaning....
How long does it take wheat to grow? Months, right. So if the fact that...

A the Bible compares believers bearing fruit to a fruit tree,

B and factoring in the fact that trees take years to bear fruit

C therefore this indicates a long period of growth before a believer can bear fruit,

You and GB9's argument...

then the parable of the wheat and tares can be used to teach a very short period of time for the events in that parable to transpire. (Several months)

Think about it

Try your paradigm on that parable, DCon and GB9
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
Dude, you should be reported. How many times do you think you can slander people and get away with it. He answered your question, even I saw that, even though i even disagree with him, (god spoke through an animal, was that animal saved?) but was waiting for you to respond,

You have some confessing to do man, uou keep digging yourself deeper i to a hole bcause your to busy tryi g to defend your faith at all cost!
I honestly didn't see his response that he addressed a MAN PREACHING Full of the Spirit of God.......and not being saved..........two times all I saw was "a man can preach........". Again I was talking about a Spirit filled man

I will look back and If I jumped the gun I will apologize

I wonder though have you seen me slandered on here? Have you snapped at those slandering me, calling me dishonest, no integrity, deceiver, mocking me as a pastor and my church? I feel sure that a man with your integrity doesn't have respect of persons?

I'm sure if I looked back on mine and your conversations that a man with your integrity hasn't slandered me in the past so I won't bother to look

thanks for the heads up.....last thing I want to do is hurt buds feelings
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
How long does it take wheat to grow? Months, right. So if the fact that...

A the Bible compares believers bearing fruit to a fruit tree,

B and factoring in the fact that trees take years to bear fruit

C therefore this indicates a long period of growth before a believer can bear fruit,

You and GB9's argument...

then the parable of the wheat and tares can be used to teach a very short period of time for the events in that parable to transpire. (Several months)

Think about it

Try your paradigm on that parable, DCon and GB9
This post quoteabove illustrates why you do not make a parable walk on all fours. If Jesus gives details in meaning, well, but do not add your own details Willy nilly. The Bible is not a toy to be played with

You all would do well to remember this
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
A MAN LIKE JUDAS, cannot be BE BORN AGAIN, and STILL continue to STEAL from the LORD's from the purse that PEOPLE gave HIM to support the Ministry.

John 12:5-6 (NCV)
5 “This perfume was worth three hundred coins. Why wasn’t it sold and the money given to the poor?“
6 But Judas did not really care about the poor; he said this because he was a thief. He was the one who kept the money box, and he often stole from it.

John 12:5-6 (NIV)
5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages."
6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

John 12:5-6 (CSBBible)
5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor??"
6 He didn't say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief. He was in charge of the money-bag and would steal part of what was put in it.

John 10:1 (HCSB)
1 “I assure you: Anyone who doesn’t enter the sheep pen by the door but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a robber."


NO REPENTENCE FROM SIN, EQUALS NOT BEING BORN AGAIN, he was a PRETEND Christian.


YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT BORN AGAIN ACTUALLY IS, DO YOU ? ? ?
WOW.....WHEN YOU ACTUALLY ADDRESS THE SCRIPTURES I HAVE GIVEN I WILL ADRESS YOUR'S......IM TIRED OF GIVING SCRIPTURES AND INSTEAD OF PEOPLE ADDRESSING THEM YOU TRY TO INSULT ME TELLING ME I DONT KNOW WHAT BORN AGAIN IS
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
A MAN LIKE JUDAS, cannot be BE BORN AGAIN, and STILL continue to STEAL from the LORD's from the purse that PEOPLE gave HIM to support the Ministry.

John 12:5-6 (NCV)
5 “This perfume was worth three hundred coins. Why wasn’t it sold and the money given to the poor?“
6 But Judas did not really care about the poor; he said this because he was a thief. He was the one who kept the money box, and he often stole from it.

John 12:5-6 (NIV)
5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages."
6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

John 12:5-6 (CSBBible)
5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor??"
6 He didn't say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief. He was in charge of the money-bag and would steal part of what was put in it.

John 10:1 (HCSB)
1 “I assure you: Anyone who doesn’t enter the sheep pen by the door but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a robber."


NO REPENTENCE FROM SIN, EQUALS NOT BEING BORN AGAIN, he was a PRETEND Christian.


YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT BORN AGAIN ACTUALLY IS, DO YOU ? ? ?
Hi VCO, well said excellent post! :)
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
Where does it SAY JUDAS DID THE HEALING ? ? ? ? HE SENT THEM OUT TWO BY TWO, the REAL APOSTLE did the HEALING, and JUDAS the Pretend Apostle, simply tagged along.

Psalm 41:9 (NJB)
9 Even my trusted friend on whom I relied, who shared my table, takes advantage of me.


Judas was only a Religious Zealot, the TYPE that JESUS SAID TO:

John 8:43-44 (CSBBible)
43 Why don't you understand what I say? Because you cannot listen to my word.
44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.


Matthew 10:4 (ESV)
4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
Where does it SAY JUDAS DID THE HEALING ? ? ? ? HE SENT THEM OUT TWO BY TWO, the REAL APOSTLE did the HEALING, and JUDAS the Pretend Apostle, simply tagged along.

Psalm 41:9 (NJB)
9 Even my trusted friend on whom I relied, who shared my table, takes advantage of me.


Judas was only a Religious Zealot, the TYPE that JESUS SAID TO:

John 8:43-44 (CSBBible)
43 Why don't you understand what I say? Because you cannot listen to my word.
44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.


Matthew 10:4 (ESV)
4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.
Read the post you just responded to and it will show you. As plain as the nose on your face

Can you show me in the Bible all the stuff you just made up about Judas not actually healing people.......

Judas was given authority over all devil's

What does your scriptures in john have to do with Judas?
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
A MAN LIKE JUDAS, cannot be BE BORN AGAIN, and STILL continue to STEAL from the LORD's from the purse that PEOPLE gave HIM to support the Ministry.

John 12:5-6 (NCV)
5 “This perfume was worth three hundred coins. Why wasn’t it sold and the money given to the poor?“
6 But Judas did not really care about the poor; he said this because he was a thief. He was the one who kept the money box, and he often stole from it.

John 12:5-6 (NIV)
5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages."
6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

John 12:5-6 (CSBBible)
5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor??"
6 He didn't say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief. He was in charge of the money-bag and would steal part of what was put in it.

John 10:1 (HCSB)
1 “I assure you: Anyone who doesn’t enter the sheep pen by the door but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a robber."


NO REPENTENCE FROM SIN, EQUALS NOT BEING BORN AGAIN, he was a PRETEND Christian.


YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT BORN AGAIN ACTUALLY IS, DO YOU ? ? ?
How did God give a "pretend Christian" as you call it the Spirit of God to preach and the authority over all devil's?????
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,340
29,589
113
Sanctification
Sanctification means “to be set apart.” Morally, to be sanctified means to be pure or holy while spiritually, to be sanctified means to be set apart for God. God set you apart from wrongdoings to be more like Him and Jesus Christ. Although a sinner is forgiven and made righteous by justification through faith in Christ, sin continues to remain but it is one thing for sin to remain in you and quite another for you to remain in sin. This is where sanctification comes in.
"Holy" means to be set apart. Sanctification is the ongoing process of being made holy.
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
YEAH right pal.........deceiver.....

HE was NEVER a believer and was NEVER clean....deal with the truth and quit being a deceiver.....

HOW MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE the DRIVEL that JUDAS WAS SAVED AND LOST IT?

EVERYONE makes you a liar pal....because so far only like one or two have agreed with your drivel....if your church members knew how dishonest you really are.....
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Luke 6:26 KJV

You think I care that nobody here agrees with me when I got the Word of God backing me up??? Let God be true and every man a liar

How is the following possible following your logic?

Luke 9:1-2 (KJV)
1 Then he called his twelve disciples (had to include Judas) together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

power--doo'-nam-is
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

Matthew 10:20 (KJV)
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Wouldn't it seem to you that Judas started out well and was tempted and gave into the temptation and fell?

If not could you please explain these verses??? Thank you
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
113
Hi stonesoffire, I stand with you in agreement that our eternal salvation is; Justification by Faith Alone, as was our Father Abraham. Any other gospel is actually no gospel at all and if you are pushing a counterfeit gospel you are "under a divine curse!

Amen! "No other Gospel"

It would be nice to see scripture from the New Testament that says “justification by faith alone”.


People that proclaim this either can’t read, or they don’t comprehend what their reading.




JPT