Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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Frustrating, isn't it?

I'd say you have more serious things to consider than my membership here.

For instance... how does your behavior make God shine???
(since it's HIM who does everything for you).
You won't answer because you know you will have to lie or be banned again for breaking the rules.....exactly why those who know you cannot even take you serious for one second.....we are waiting Fran.....yes or no

If the boot fits......see even the above is dishonest.......so let us lay the rubber to the road....you believe obedience keeps you saved....

Were you previously banned for bad behavior.....were you here under the name Fran......?

A simple yes or no will do and prove if you believe what you preach

Remember...OBEDIENCE KEEPS YOU SAVED OR PROVES YOU ARE SAVED BY YOUR OWN DOGMA......!
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
You won't answer because you know you will have to lie or be banned again for breaking the rules.....exactly why those who know you cannot even take you serious for one second.....we are waiting Fran.....yes or no

If the boot fits......see even the above is dishonest.......so let us lay the rubber to the road....you believe obedience keeps you saved....

Were you previously banned for bad behavior.....were you here under the name Fran......?

A simple yes or no will do and prove if you believe what you preach

Remember...OBEDIENCE KEEPS YOU SAVED OR PROVES YOU ARE SAVED BY YOUR OWN DOGMA......!
Here's what you should do Dcon.
Report me.
Get it out of your system.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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Let's define fruit.


Galatians 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

A believer who at any point who does not manifest the above fruit. Notice at any time and not all the time.

Is that no fruit or bad fruit?
And they are called the fruits OF THE SPIRIT.....of or from inducate SOURCE.....and what kind of fruit or works results in CHASTENING. Those who deny that believers can and do produce bad fruit or works on occasion are blind to the truth!
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
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I saw this by mistake....you didn't tag me.

Who believes in legalism?
I've been told on this very thread that I'm going to hell many times.
I've been told I'm a sinner.
I'd say THAT is legalism.
Those that call some of us here fruit inspectors, sure do a lot of fruit inspecting.

You can't change your relationship with God by one word: MUST.
I'm not saying this anymore....God does not make requests...HE DEMANDS.

If we don't want to adhere to His demands...well, I don't know what that means.
I guess it means we don't love Him enough.
I'm not listing those obedience works deeds verses again.

The dreadful price was paid to free us from the bondage of sin to satan.
If we're freed from it , then we will be serving God.
If we're serving God...then we must do as HE wishes.

You're an intelligent person...
I can't express myself any other way...
You are blessed by God.
Romans 12:1 King James Version (KJV)
12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

I think this is the distinction that needs to be made. It is what we ought to do, and as a believer, we do indeed have the desire to do so though we may yet fail at times. It is our reasonable service, found in gratitude. The must attitude is a non-sequitur, it doesn't make sense, when it is already our desire or an implication of our revelation of God's love.

"You must worship me." But Lord, I already adore you, thank you for the risen Christ. "You must preach the Gospel." As I live and breathe, I carry your presence, Christ in me, hope of glory. "Give to the poor." I am blessed to be a blessing, as I give to the poor it is like lending to the Lord and He shall repay me. "Do not sin." I desire righteousness, and though I fall Christ is my Advocate with the Father, and the Lord sanctifies me.

The so called obligations of a Christian are found in the providence of God.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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Here's what you should do Dcon.
Report me.
Get it out of your system.
Be honest Fran.....I have only reported like 2 or 3 posts in 5 years......honesty will set you free.....why cannot you just be honest Fran....you peddle obedience and make a solid stance on what you believe....why not show us ALL how obedient you are....this site has rules....

A yes or no will suffice instead of dancing all around the subject....your disciples can see that you are not following that which you preach

If the boot fits......see even the above is dishonest.......so let us lay the rubber to the road....you believe obedience keeps you saved....

Were you previously banned for bad behavior.....were you here under the name Fran......?

A simple yes or no will do and prove if you believe what you preach

Remember...OBEDIENCE KEEPS YOU SAVED OR PROVES YOU ARE SAVED BY YOUR OWN DOGMA......!
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
You won't answer because you know you will have to lie or be banned again for breaking the rules.....exactly why those who know you cannot even take you serious for one second.....we are waiting Fran.....yes or no

If the boot fits......see even the above is dishonest.......so let us lay the rubber to the road....you believe obedience keeps you saved....

Were you previously banned for bad behavior.....were you here under the name Fran......?

A simple yes or no will do and prove if you believe what you preach

Remember...OBEDIENCE KEEPS YOU SAVED OR PROVES YOU ARE SAVED BY YOUR OWN DOGMA......!
By the way...and I've said this before...
I don't have a MY DOGMA.
I don't make up dogma.
The Christian church has made up dogma...
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Be honest Fran.....I have only reported like 2 or 3 posts in 5 years......honesty will set you free.....why cannot you just be honest Fran....you peddle obedience and make a solid stance on what you believe....why not show us ALL how obedient you are....this site has rules....

A yes or no will suffice instead of dancing all around the subject....your disciples can see that you are not following that which you preach

If the boot fits......see even the above is dishonest.......so let us lay the rubber to the road....you believe obedience keeps you saved....

Were you previously banned for bad behavior.....were you here under the name Fran......?

A simple yes or no will do and prove if you believe what you preach

Remember...OBEDIENCE KEEPS YOU SAVED OR PROVES YOU ARE SAVED BY YOUR OWN DOGMA......!
I know I disturb you.
I'm not leaving here of my own free will.

If you think I've done something wrong then quit talking about obedience,,,which YOU do not demonstrate, BTW,,,

And since YOU are such a good, obedient person,,,
I think you should go ahead and complain about me.....a sinner, and a proclaimed one at that.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Romans 12:1 King James Version (KJV)
12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

I think this is the distinction that needs to be made. It is what we ought to do, and as a believer, we do indeed have the desire to do so though we may yet fail at times. It is our reasonable service, found in gratitude. The must attitude is a non-sequitur, it doesn't make sense, when it is already our desire or an implication of our revelation of God's love.

"You must worship me." But Lord, I already adore you, thank you for the risen Christ. "You must preach the Gospel." As I live and breathe, I carry your presence, Christ in me, hope of glory. "Give to the poor." I am blessed to be a blessing, as I give to the poor it is like lending to the Lord and He shall repay me. "Do not sin." I desire righteousness, and though I fall Christ is my Advocate with the Father, and the Lord sanctifies me.

The so called obligations of a Christian are found in the providence of God.
This all sounds so nice.
Were persons saved in the O.T.?
Why?
Did they obey God?
Was it a request?

Are you married?
Do you fool around on your wife?
Why? Because you don't even want to?
OK.
But does this mean you could if you wanted to?
Or is it that once married WE MUST NOT be adulterous?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Everybody that reads this thread take note..... @GodsGrace101 pushes obedience to remain saved....she is a former member that was banned....I have asked her 5 times to PROVE TO US ALL that she believes what she peddles and be honest about who she really is....she will NOT answer the following post because SHE KNOWS she will have to either LIE or be banned for breaking the rules of this site by coming back after being axed once already....I have kept my mouth shut and not pushed this in hopes she would change and quit being dishonest, twisting what we say, embellishing what we say and she refuses to be honest......FRAN A YES OR NO WILL SUFFICE and why won't you answer....you believe OBEDIENCE KEEPS YOU SAVED....HERE IS A CHANCE TO PROVE YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU PEDDLE

If the boot fits......see even the above is dishonest.......so let us lay the rubber to the road....you believe obedience keeps you saved....

Were you previously banned for bad behavior.....were you here under the name Fran......?

A simple yes or no will do and prove if you believe what you preach

Remember...OBEDIENCE KEEPS YOU SAVED OR PROVES YOU ARE SAVED BY YOUR OWN DOGMA......!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I know I disturb you.
I'm not leaving here of my own free will.

If you think I've done something wrong then quit talking about obedience,,,which YOU do not demonstrate, BTW,,,

And since YOU are such a good, obedient person,,,
I think you should go ahead and complain about me.....a sinner, and a proclaimed one at that.
Still dancing hey
...see...push come to shove you are as disobedient as they come......and by your own doctrine what does this say about who you really are....

If the boot fits......see even the above is dishonest.......so let us lay the rubber to the road....you believe obedience keeps you saved....

Were you previously banned for bad behavior.....were you here under the name Fran......?

A simple yes or no will do and prove if you believe what you preach

Remember...OBEDIENCE KEEPS YOU SAVED OR PROVES YOU ARE SAVED BY YOUR OWN DOGMA......!
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
It does state clearly that if we want to enter into his rest we must cease from our own labors.
Rest is for those who are under the law but for those who are not under the law, what they need is LIFE. The OT prohibits because they have NO POWER to DO but the NT encourages to do GOOD WORKS and OBEY because the Holy Spirit has been given through FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS which will guide, help, enable and empower believers to do God's Will and Commands.

...For the kingdom of God is NOT A MATTER OF TALK BUT OF POWER. 1 Corinthians 4:20

What a DEAD in transgressions need is to ENTER LIFE.

...made us alive with Christ even when we were DEAD IN TRANSGRESSIONS—it is by grace you have been saved. Ephesians 2:5

...“If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS” Matthew 19:17

...Faith WITHOUT works is DEAD. James 2:14-26

...So we say with confidence,"THE LORD IS MY HELPER; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?”
Hebrews 13:6

“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. EVEN NOW the reaper draws his wages, EVEN NOW HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that THE SOWER and THE REAPER may be glad TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘ONE SOWS AND ANOTHER REAPS’ is true. I sent you TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and you have REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.”

BELIEVERS ARE WORKERS CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS (Ephesians 2:10), NOT LAZY SERVANTS WHOSE END IS DESTRUCTION. (See Matthew 25:26 & Hebrews 6:12)

...Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY it, and REPENT. But if you do not WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 3:3

... And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to WAKE UP FROM YOUR SLUMBER, because OUR SALVATION IS NEARER NOW THAN WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED. Romans 13:11
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Everybody that reads this thread take note..... @GodsGrace101 pushes obedience to remain saved....she is a former member that was banned....I have asked her 5 times to PROVE TO US ALL that she believes what she peddles and be honest about who she really is....she will NOT answer the following post because SHE KNOWS she will have to either LIE or be banned for breaking the rules if this site by coming back after being axed once already....I have kept my mouth shut and not pushed this in hopes she would change and quit being dishonest, twisting what we say, embellishing what we say and she refuses to be honest......FRAN A YES OR NO WILL SUFFICE and why won't you answer....you believe OBEDIENCE KEEPS YOU SAVED....HERE IS A CHANCE TO PROVE YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU PEDDLE

If the boot fits......see even the above is dishonest.......so let us lay the rubber to the road....you believe obedience keeps you saved....

Were you previously banned for bad behavior.....were you here under the name Fran......?

A simple yes or no will do and prove if you believe what you preach

Remember...OBEDIENCE KEEPS YOU SAVED OR PROVES YOU ARE SAVED BY YOUR OWN DOGMA......!
Don't you have anything better to do?
What do you do to persons you DON'T like??
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Messed up the song.

Jesus paid it all. Finished Work.

Do you KNOW what that Price HE PAID, actually is ? ? ?

It is the BRIDE PRICE, and now you may have the a deeper knowledge of the PRICE HE paid to REDEEM the BRIDE:

Genesis 34:12 (GWT)
12 Set the price I must pay for the bride and the gift I must give her as high as you want. I'll pay exactly what you tell me.
Give me the girl as my wife.”




You may not know this but Rory's wife Joey passed away from Cancer in 2016.

 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
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This all sounds so nice.
Were persons saved in the O.T.?
Why?
Did they obey God?
Was it a request?

Are you married?
Do you fool around on your wife?
Why? Because you don't even want to?
OK.
But does this mean you could if you wanted to?
Or is it that once married WE MUST NOT be adulterous?
Consequences God'sGrace101. Our actions have consequences and under grace there is no condemnation, because of Jesus (through His bloodshed and ministry as High Priest). The consequences are felt in this life, and even in the next in terms of rewards (or the lack thereof).

When you are married, it is not that you must not be adulterous, it is that you love the person and choose to be faithful. We have the freedom of choice in this life, but with such freedom comes consequence. You could cheat, but it isn't of love, and once you've known love you realize nothing else will suffice.

Its all about consequences, weighing the pros and cons. This is how I was raised. My father raised us with this in mind. To consider our actions. Yes, he taught us right and wrong according to God's word, but with it, he gave us the freedom of choice. You could do this, but why would you? It leads to emptiness and despair, and it ignores your problems, so why do that (thinking of drinking, alcoholism)?

So, yes, even born again Christians have the freedom of choice. Choices that will have God chasten us, to bring us into the light. For our own well being and those around us. We are of the light, and so should we carry ourselves.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Consequences God'sGrace101. Our actions have consequences and under grace there is no condemnation, because of Jesus (through His bloodshed and ministry as High Priest). The consequences are felt in this life, and even in the next in terms of rewards (or the lack thereof).

When you are married, it is not that you must not be adulterous, it is that you love the person and choose to be faithful. We have the freedom of choice in this life, but with such freedom comes consequence. You could cheat, but it isn't of love, and once you've known love you realize nothing else will suffice.

Its all about consequences, weighing the pros and cons. This is how I was raised. My father raised us with this in mind. To consider our actions. Yes, he taught us right and wrong according to God's word, but with it, he gave us the freedom of choice. You could do this, but why would you? It leads to emptiness and despair, and it ignores your problems, so why do that (thinking of drinking, alcoholism)?

So, yes, even born again Christians have the freedom of choice. Choices that will have God chasten us, to bring us into the light. For our own well being and those around us. We are of the light, and so should we carry ourselves.

Ben.....😏
well said brother

God bless you
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Rest is for those who are under the law but for those who are not under the law, what they need is LIFE. The OT prohibits because they have NO POWER to DO but the NT encourages to do GOOD WORKS and OBEY because the Holy Spirit has been given through FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS which will guide, help, enable and empower believers to do God's Will and Commands.

...For the kingdom of God is NOT A MATTER OF TALK BUT OF POWER. 1 Corinthians 4:20

What a DEAD in transgressions need is to ENTER LIFE.

...made us alive with Christ even when we were DEAD IN TRANSGRESSIONS—it is by grace you have been saved. Ephesians 2:5

...“If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS” Matthew 19:17

...Faith WITHOUT works is DEAD. James 2:14-26

...So we say with confidence,"THE LORD IS MY HELPER; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?”
Hebrews 13:6

“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. EVEN NOW the reaper draws his wages, EVEN NOW HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that THE SOWER and THE REAPER may be glad TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘ONE SOWS AND ANOTHER REAPS’ is true. I sent you TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and you have REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.”

BELIEVERS ARE WORKERS CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS UNTO GOOD WORKS (Ephesians 2:10), NOT LAZY SERVANTS WHOSE END IS DESTRUCTION. (See Matthew 25:26 & Hebrews 6:12)

...Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY it, and REPENT. But if you do not WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 3:3

... And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to WAKE UP FROM YOUR SLUMBER, because OUR SALVATION IS NEARER NOW THAN WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED. Romans 13:11
Your posts require no comment....

However, I would like to say that John 4:34 states that Jesus came to finish GOD'S work....The work God had set for the Son from time eternal.

Jesus came to earth to do the work of God Father....to be our atonement.


THIS is the work of Christ....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I know I disturb you.
I'm not leaving here of my own free will.

If you think I've done something wrong then quit talking about obedience,,,which YOU do not demonstrate, BTW,,,

And since YOU are such a good, obedient person,,,
I think you should go ahead and complain about me.....a sinner, and a proclaimed one at that.
What disturbs me is your lack of honesty, obedience and the fact you twist and embellish the word of God and what we say......
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Don't you have anything better to do?
What do you do to persons you DON'T like??
Who said I don't like you....when you can be honest about what we actually say, honest with the word of God and quit embellishing what we say then I will engage you in a manner that you might like ....until then, you push obedience to the law and commands to remain saved......why won't you answer the following truthfully and in a manner consistent with what you peddle.....OBEDIENCE ...

If the boot fits......see even the above is dishonest.......so let us lay the rubber to the road....you believe obedience keeps you saved....

Were you previously banned for bad behavior.....were you here under the name Fran......?

A simple yes or no will do and prove if you believe what you preach

Remember...OBEDIENCE KEEPS YOU SAVED OR PROVES YOU ARE SAVED BY YOUR OWN DOGMA......!
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Consequences God'sGrace101. Our actions have consequences and under grace there is no condemnation, because of Jesus (through His bloodshed and ministry as High Priest). The consequences are felt in this life, and even in the next in terms of rewards (or the lack thereof).

When you are married, it is not that you must not be adulterous, it is that you love the person and choose to be faithful. We have the freedom of choice in this life, but with such freedom comes consequence. You could cheat, but it isn't of love, and once you've known love you realize nothing else will suffice.

Its all about consequences, weighing the pros and cons. This is how I was raised. My father raised us with this in mind. To consider our actions. Yes, he taught us right and wrong according to God's word, but with it, he gave us the freedom of choice. You could do this, but why would you? It leads to emptiness and despair, and it ignores your problems, so why do that (thinking of drinking, alcoholism)?

So, yes, even born again Christians have the freedom of choice. Choices that will have God chasten us, to bring us into the light. For our own well being and those around us. We are of the light, and so should we carry ourselves.
Even atheists know everything you've said above.
What does the pastor/priest say when marrying a couple?
He says that they are to remain faithful to one another.
The O.T. and the N.T. teach the same.
So we may not "want",,,,but if you want to be honest, you'd have to admit that we also cannot do this and also call ourselves a Christian.....

As to the idea of our getting chastised and there being consequences and how we lose rewards but keep heaven....

This is a modern-day idea that has no basis in the N.T.
Jesus did not hang on that cross to bring us rewards...He died to SAVE US.

The inheritance is our reward....our reward due to our salvation.
Colossians 3:23-24
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.

Ephesians 1:11-14
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Acts 20:32
And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

Titus 3:7
So that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

And many more....
Our inheritance is heaven...
not rewards --- although we will get those too.