Did Enoch Not Die?

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Mar 28, 2016
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#41
Oh, but they did die. Maybe not experiencing it physically, but they are gone (see the next post). God does not, and will not, reuse humans for a specific purpose. He will raise up new ones prepared just for that work. Like John the Baptist was in the spirit and power of Elijah and not the actual resurrection of that prophet (see Luke 1:17).:cool:
We are born into a corrupted body of death and under its lack of power to please God. . We are experiencing physical death each moment, each breath . It is the wrath of God being revealed according to Romans 1.. Elijah and Enoch witnessed the wrath of God experiencing physical dying. . A great tribulation for the human race.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#42
Oh, but they did die. Maybe not experiencing it physically, but they are gone (see the next post). God does not, and will not, reuse humans for a specific purpose. He will raise up new ones prepared just for that work. Like John the Baptist was in the spirit and power of Elijah and not the actual resurrection of that prophet (see Luke 1:17).:cool:
I disagree.......He used Abraham, Lazarus and a lost rich man to prove a very valid point about the sufficiency of the word of God (law and prophets) to keep 5 other guys from busting hell wide open!!!!!!!!
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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Feb 8, 2019
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#44
Fantastic post! thank you for explaining this so well. I do have one question. Are Moses, Elijah and Enoch still asleep in the dust as we speak, or have they already been resurrected?

Where are Enoch and Elijah? [continued]

The Answer Unfolds

Let us notice the next few years and see what further events the Scripture records. The new king of Israel was another son of Ahab, Jehoram, or Joram as he is sometimes called. The beginning of his reign marked the year of the removal of Elijah (II Kings 1:18 and 3:1). During this king’s reign Elisha was the recognized prophet of God (II Kings 3:11). In the fifth year of Joram king of Israel, the son of the king of Judah began to reign along with his father in Judah (II Kings 8:16). His name also was Jehoram. The first thing he did to establish his kingdom rule was to put his relatives to the sword lest they should claim the throne from him (11 Chronicles 2 1:4). For nearly six years he followed the ways of the nations about him and did evil in God’s sight. Almost ten years had now expired since Elijah was taken from the people. But what do you think was about to happen?

A Letter Comes from Elijah. Yes, after this wicked rule by the Jewish king, God chose Elijah to write a letter and have it sent to the king! The contents of the letter are found in II Chronicles 21:12-15. In part it reads: "Because thou hast not walked in the ways of... thy father... but hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel... and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father’s house, which were better than thyself... thou shalt have great sickness by disease." From the wording of the letter, it is clear that Elijah wrote it after these events had occurred, for he speaks of them as past events, and of the disease as future. Two years after the king became diseased the king died—having reigned only eight short years (II Chronicles 21:18-20). This proves that the letter was written about ten years after Elijah had been taken to another location by the whirlwind. God used Elijah to convey the message because he was the prophet of God in days of the present king’s father—and the son was not going in the ways of his obedient father, Jehoshaphat. The letter he had others deliver was recognized as his—proving that he was known to be alive someplace. Just how much longer he lived, the Bible does not reveal. But in that "it is appointed unto men once to die" (Hebrews 9:27). Elijah must have died somewhat later. All human beings born of Adam, and that includes Elijah, must die—for we read: "In Adam all die" (I Corinthians 15:22). Elijah was a man "subject to like passions as we are" (James 5:17) subject to human nature and death. The prophet, being mortal flesh as we are, could not have lived much beyond his seventy years.
To suppose that God gave him the power of an endless life of nearly three thousand years is to read into the Bible what is not there! He was mortal, subject to death, and after being lifted into the atmospheric heavens, spent the remaining years of his separate life at some little-known location on the earth, living as every human being, before he naturally died.

The only remaining texts that puzzle people are those relative to the appearance of Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus. The record of the event is found in Matthew 17:1-9; Mark 9:2-10; Luke 9:28-36. Leaving the mountain, Jesus told his disciples: "Tell the vision to no man” (Matt. 17:9). A vision is not a material reality but a supernatural picture observed by the eyes. Moses died, and was buried (Deut. 34:5-6). Both he and Elijah were still dead in their graves, but in vision both they and Jesus were seen in the glory of the resurrection—an event to which Moses and Elijah have not yet attained (Heb. 11:39). The vision was granted the disciples after Jesus had spoken of the glory of immortality in the coming kingdom. How plain the Bible is! Elijah is dead in the dust of the earth awaiting the resurrection of the just. Elijah, some years after being removed in the whirlwind, went to the grave, but will rise again to live forevermore.
 

Deade

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#45
Fantastic post! thank you for explaining this so well. I do have one question. Are Moses, Elijah and Enoch still asleep in the dust as we speak, or have they already been resurrected?
They are sleeping right along with the rest of the patriarchs mentioned in Hebrews 11. :)(y):cool:
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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#46
I just came across 1 Corinthians 15:23 where the KJB says, "every man in his own order".
And the CSB says, "But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at his coming, those who belong to Christ."

So this seems to clearly say there is a progression - that some will be resurrected before his coming. And now I am beginning to understand what Christ meant when he said, "the first will be last, and the last will be first". Those that put themselves last will be the firstfruits and be resurrected first.

Am I on the right track?



They are sleeping right along with the rest of the patriarchs mentioned in Hebrews 11. :)(y):cool:
 

Deade

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#47
I just came across 1 Corinthians 15:23 where the KJB says, "every man in his own order".
And the CSB says, "But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at his coming, those who belong to Christ."

So this seems to clearly say there is a progression - that some will be resurrected before his coming. And now I am beginning to understand what Christ meant when he said, "the first will be last, and the last will be first". Those that put themselves last will be the firstfruits and be resurrected first.

Am I on the right track?
Scripture says the dead in Christ will be resurrected first and immediately after those alive will be changed to immortal, almost simultaneously. :)(y):cool:
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#48
I guess the writers made mistakes....It is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE not twice!!!!!!!!!

The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

egeiró: to waken, to raise up
Original Word: ἐγείρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: egeiró
Phonetic Spelling: (eg-i'-ro)
Definition: to waken, to raise up

"He is not here, for He has risen, just as He said. Come, see the place where He was lying.

egeiró: to waken, to raise up
Original Word: ἐγείρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: egeiró
Phonetic Spelling: (eg-i'-ro)
Definition: to waken, to raise up
Usage: (a) I wake, arouse, (b) I raise up.

Same word....you guys need to get your facts straight.....some have already been resurrected as the first fruits.....and on the Mount of transfuguration they were all glorified. ...!!!!!!!
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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#49
Yes, thanks for sharing this!

The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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#50
I guess the writers made mistakes....It is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE not twice!!!!!!!!!

The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

egeiró: to waken, to raise up
Original Word: ἐγείρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: egeiró
Phonetic Spelling: (eg-i'-ro)
Definition: to waken, to raise up

"He is not here, for He has risen, just as He said. Come, see the place where He was lying.

egeiró: to waken, to raise up
Original Word: ἐγείρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: egeiró
Phonetic Spelling: (eg-i'-ro)
Definition: to waken, to raise up
Usage: (a) I wake, arouse, (b) I raise up.

Same word....you guys need to get your facts straight.....some have already been resurrected as the first fruits.....and on the Mount of transfuguration they were all glorified. ...!!!!!!!
These scriptures tell us that we are not to establish doctrine on one witness.

John 8:17 "Yea and in your law it is written, that the witness of two men is true."

Matt. 18:16: “But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.”

2 Cor. 13:1: “This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”

Too many other scriptures say the dead are asleep, awaiting resurrection.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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#51
These scriptures tell us that we are not to establish doctrine on one witness.

John 8:17 "Yea and in your law it is written, that the witness of two men is true."

Matt. 18:16: “But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.”

2 Cor. 13:1: “This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”

Too many other scriptures say the dead are asleep, awaiting resurrection.
You can have both!

The witness of Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:23 tells us that some (the "firstfruits") will rise after Jesus rose, but before his coming.

The witness of Matthew in Matthew 27:52-53 also corroborates the same message. That some (many) rose after Jesus rose, but before his coming. This verse says many rose; it does NOT say all rose.

So there is no contradiction here!
Some (or many) will rise before His coming, while some (or many) will rise at His coming.

In all cases I am seeing that no one rose before Jesus.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#52
Genesis 5:24 and Hebrews 11:5 seem to say Enoch did not die.

John 3:13 and Hebrews 11:13 seem to say that Enoch did die.
Moses was a type of the law, thereby, when he died, he went to paradise, which was in the heart of the earth (Lk. 16:19-31).

Elijah was a type of the new covenant under Christ and, thereby, a type of the rapture. When he was translated, he was taken to heaven, the abode of God, another paradise in the heart of the earth.

Malachi, the last great prophet before John the Baptist, stated, “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD” (Mal. 4:5).

JSM
 

Deade

Called of God
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#53
You can have both!

The witness of Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:23 tells us that some (the "firstfruits") will rise after Jesus rose, but before his coming.

The witness of Matthew in Matthew 27:52-53 also corroborates the same message. That some (many) rose after Jesus rose, but before his coming. This verse says many rose; it does NOT say all rose.

So there is no contradiction here!
Some (or many) will rise before His coming, while some (or many) will rise at His coming.

In all cases I am seeing that no one rose before Jesus.
Okay, let us re-read 1 Corinthians 15:23: "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." Maybe I am dense, but it seems to say first Christ and the rest at His coming. :)(y):cool:
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#54
“5 By Faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death (refers to God transferring Enoch to Heaven in his physical body while he was yet alive); and was not found, because God had translated him (refers to his translation being well-known at that time): for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (He pleased God because he placed his Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross.)” Hebrews 11:5

JSM
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#55
These scriptures tell us that we are not to establish doctrine on one witness.

John 8:17 "Yea and in your law it is written, that the witness of two men is true."

Matt. 18:16: “But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.”

2 Cor. 13:1: “This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”

Too many other scriptures say the dead are asleep, awaiting resurrection.
Nice try at aversion......won't fly with me and the two or three witnesses is applicable to accusing someone of breaking the law......you sying these witnesses below are wrong....EVERY WORD IS INSPIRED AND CAN BE TAKEN AT FACE VALUE.....AND YOUR STANCE IS EXACTLY WHY EVERY WIND OF DOCTRINE GETS BLOWN AROUND LIKE PLASTIC BAGS ON A WALMART PARKING LOT!!

Jesus wept

Mens hearts failing them for looking afyer those things coming upon the earth

The scriptues are clear.....and your denial has much to say for all reading.....a lack of honesty to be quite frank!
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#56
Moses was a type of the law, thereby, when he died, he went to paradise, which was in the heart of the earth (Lk. 16:19-31).

Elijah was a type of the new covenant under Christ and, thereby, a type of the rapture. When he was translated, he was taken to heaven, the abode of God, another paradise in the heart of the earth.

Malachi, the last great prophet before John the Baptist, stated, “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD” (Mal. 4:5).

JSM
Post # 52 mistake corrected ****

Moses was a type of the law, thereby, when he died, he went to paradise, which was in the heart of the earth (Lk. 16:19-31).

**** Elijah was a type of the new covenant under Christ and, thereby, a type of the rapture. When he was translated, he was taken to heaven, the abode of God, and not another paradise in the heart of the earth.

Malachi, the last great prophet before John the Baptist, stated, “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD” (Mal. 4:5).

JSM
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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#57
You might have it right buddy, as I am still just trying to absorb and walk through all this.
Closer examination of true meaning and significance of Matthew 27: 51-53 is needed.

I found this link which you might find agreement with. Let me know. Thanks!
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-too...ppened-to-the-resurrected-saints-mentioned-in

Okay, let us re-read 1 Corinthians 15:23: "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." Maybe I am dense, but it seems to say first Christ and the rest at His coming. :)(y):cool:
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
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#58
Rev 4:4 tells us that there were 24 elders in heaven wearing white linens and golden crowns. This seems to be before the first trumpet, and before Christ's coming I think. So this seems to be telling us that some are raised to heaven in spirit before Christ's coming. Yes or no?
 

Lanolin

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Dec 15, 2018
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#59
Interesting. I dont really know what is meant by scripture when it says about Enoch 'he was not' or he was 'translated' but it did seem he died in the end because the passage in hebrews 11 does state..verse 13, These all died in faith, although it could have been referring to SArahs seed.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#60
Rev 4:4 tells us that there were 24 elders in heaven wearing white linens and golden crowns. This seems to be before the first trumpet, and before Christ's coming I think. So this seems to be telling us that some are raised to heaven in spirit before Christ's coming. Yes or no?
I'd really like to know who the 24 elders are...is it the israelite kings in the Bible, or is it the apostles plus the prophets or what.