Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
All of them...as long as we're sorry for them.

Our sins ARE imputed to us.
But so is Jesus' righteousness....
IF we ask forgiveness.
I know that to some this is considered a work....
The N.T. does not consider this a work.
John 20:23

Except the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit....
Obeying Jesus in anyway can be considered a work. Why are people trying to get out of saying they obey God?!
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
Please dear Budman, can you accuse me of piety, desiring after Gods righteousness and Holiness,
being meek, poor in Spirit, mourning, merciful, pure in heart, a peacemaker following Jesus, because
if it is wrong to these things, please say I am this wrong, because God will bless me eternally in heaven.

I poke fun, but this is Jesus's heart that we walk like Him and walk like this, so it is a proud day that
we might be recognised to have achieved such a thing is some manner no matter how small, Amen.
You really love hearing yourself talk, doncha?

You can use all the flowery language you want, but if you think one must work in any way to retain salvation, you are a self-righteous hypocrite.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
A change of mind towards God? Most people never ever heard of God and Jesus in the New Testament times. How is what you say truthful? We are to change our mind about sins.
Nope, the the object of our faith is Jesus, it is Him we are persuaded about.

That is why it is faith alone for salvation.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Don't have to "spot" them. They pop up all on their own.
Like you.
Oh you wound me so, argggggg. But what is the great hypocrisy you accuse me of.
Being like Jesus? Encouraging others to follow Him? Saying through the cross we overcome?
Because everyone you spot doing these things are my brothers and sisters in Christ and I love them.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
Oh you wound me so, argggggg. But what is the great hypocrisy you accuse me of.
Being like Jesus? Encouraging others to follow Him? Saying through the cross we overcome?
Because everyone you spot doing these things are my brothers and sisters in Christ and I love them.
You preach a works based gospel. You make demands that you yourself do not live up to. You love to harp about "obedience" and "overcoming sin" when you sin as much as the rest of us.

You are a classic hypocrite.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
You really love hearing yourself talk, doncha?

You can use all the flowery language you want, but if you think one must work in any way to retain salvation, you are a self-righteous hypocrite.
Hi bud, words are all we are exchanging. They have meaning. I hear your accusation and its
emotional meaning. I fully understand the anger and vehemence with which it is meant and
I forgive you. But you live in your own construction, and I am just sharing Gods way.

God bless you
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Oh you wound me so, argggggg. But what is the great hypocrisy you accuse me of.
Being like Jesus? Encouraging others to follow Him? Saying through the cross we overcome?
Because everyone you spot doing these things are my brothers and sisters in Christ and I love them.
"Being like Jesus" ......hmmm

Now those are some big shoes to fill, are you going to take on the sins of the world too?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
Hi bud, words are all we are exchanging. They have meaning. I hear your accusation and its
emotional meaning. I fully understand the anger and vehemence with which it is meant and
I forgive you. But you live in your own construction, and I am just sharing Gods way.

God bless you

Wow.

Nice deflection. The Pharisees would be proud.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
It is interesting to me, though we may not communicate well, and obviously your approach
is not conventional, some have declared you "utterly lost".

If someone rejects Jesus that would make sense, or stays in wilful sin and refuses to repent.
Communicates their faith in an unconventional way? Not guilty, and could well be a brother in Christ.

This behaviour by others demonstrates to me their insecurity. Does it matter to them who
is lost before God and who is not, which they cannot determine anyway?

Press certain buttons, and out come the condemnations. As long as I know the Lord, the rest is up
to others, Amen.

So obeying Jesus. Is there a downside? There is the problem of miss-interpretation.
People have chopped their hands off, thinking their guilt would be sorted out by this and they would
enter heaven. They may have been also slightly nuts. Others invent OCD tight rules of self condemnation
where anything good they can think of, if they do not do, is sinful. Or they are obligated to follow anybody
elses request of their time over their own needs.

So yes there can be problems understanding what obeying Jesus is.
But at the level you are talking, people are very sensitive about starting to look at the issue, :)

Guilt and self condemnation is triggered by such considerations :)
I don't want anyone to hurt themselves.
There is a danger with the mentally unstable, even those who show no signs of any mental instability.
There are faith alone denominations who send their youth to other countries to preach the gospel.
They go to dangerous areas of the world and think that this is pleasing to God.
There are people who think they have to have nothing and give up their homes and be homeless.
Really, a person could stay sitting and do the works that Jesus wants us to do they don't require any physical movement at all.
If is seems hard---then DON'T do it! Call on Jesus to help you.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
You preach a works based gospel. You make demands that you yourself do not live up to. You love to harp about "obedience" and "overcoming sin" when you sin as much as the rest of us.
You are a classic hypocrite.
There is a brain disfunction where people see everywhere what their brain thinks it is seeing.
I have no answers to your projections, because you are not listening or want to know me or
even care about Jesus and what He is doing.

Non-christians talk like you about people who say Jesus has changed them.
So it suggests to me that is what you must be and have not experienced the change in Christ
so believe it is not true. God bless you.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
I watched a series about the massively rich who wander the world, from house to house.
Often their staff are the closest to them, having occasional interaction but almost no friends,
because they move so much, no one can get close, and they are so scared of exploitation.

Jesus had great interaction and friendships. He lived in community for 3 years and implied
we are a real family. In Christ we have brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, linked in love
and sharing at a deep emotional and spiritual level. This is the body of Christ, the Kingdom
that is eternal and conquers the worlds ways through Christ.
It sounds like you are shaming people for not having friends.
You would have a problem with Enoch and John the baptizer, to name a few
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,110
1,962
113
A change of mind towards God? Most people never ever heard of God and Jesus in the New Testament times. How is what you say truthful? We are to change our mind about sins.
One of the passages where the word "repent" IS used, is in Acts 3, where Peter is speaking to "ye men of Israel"... note what he says:

Acts 3 -

12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son [/Servant] Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

17 And now, brethren [his Jewish brethren, that is], I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.


Here, Peter is telling them to "metanoēsate" about the Person of Jesus Christ.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
There is a brain disfunction where people see everywhere what their brain thinks it is seeing.
I have no answers to your projections, because you are not listening or want to know me or
even care about Jesus and what He is doing.
Oh, I see. I don't "care about Jesus" because I don't listen to you, huh?

You have no answers because you simply cannot defend your position, and that frustrates you.

Non-christians talk like you about people who say Jesus has changed them.
So it suggests to me that is what you must be and have not experienced the change in Christ
so believe it is not true. God bless you.
And now you say I'm not a Christian?

You really are a piece of Pharisaic work. "Oh Lord, I thank Thee that I am not like these sinners...!"
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
You skipped the part that says WE don't will our way to be a Child of God. It is by GOD'S Will that we become His Child. Very inconvenient for those that think they can work their way to the Father. Here is Jesus saying the same thing again:
I didn't skip anything. I have been saying Jesus chooses who he wants to save, and he tells us he chooses those who believe and obey him.

John 6:44 New King James Version (NKJV)
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me DRAWS him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
You don't understand that scripture.
That scripture is during the time of Jesus' earthly ministry when only the lost sheep of Israel could come to Jesus to be saved.
Now God draws all to Him; but many people still resist.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,002
13,010
113
58
I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds
Acts 26:20

Here is Paul saying deeds show their repentance is real. Are you denying this connection?
No and yet these deeds are the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8) and not the essence of repentance — “change of mind.”
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
Yes, Jesus does tell us what to do to get saved:

John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day ... 47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

John 11:25 - Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

These many people in Matthew 7:21-23 had the wrong motive as do all works-salvationists.
We have to BELIEVE that we have to OBEY Jesus.

All the scriptures that say 'believe', they do NOT nullify the scripture that say to 'obey'.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
984
85
28
You could not make it any more obvious that you teach salvation by works. :(

The gospel is not about obtaining and maintaining salvation by works. That is a "different" gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation or to maintain salvation.

1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who BELIEVE.
That foolishness is NOT about NOT obeying God! lol
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Wow.
Nice deflection. The Pharisees would be proud.
A deflection implies you were aiming to hit something.
Hitting thin air because you are hitting the wrong person in the wrong way just
declares ignorance and a lack of knowledge.

Many millions of believers have been executed and their executors who thought they were doing a good thing.
"a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God."
John 16:2

Evil people always hate piety and service to God and righteousness.