Not By Works
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When I was responding originally i had two ideas in mind, either the serious one which I did, or a joke answer which would of been a star wars reference to yoda.
Anger is the path to the dark side. etc.
Sadly modern day Christianity gets much of its doctrine from buddhism, star wars and Joel Osteen's books instead of the Bible.
Anger is the path to the dark side. etc.
Sadly modern day Christianity gets much of its doctrine from buddhism, star wars and Joel Osteen's books instead of the Bible.
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Lying like you did in this post is sin......give it up man....you are all over the board and vacillate worse that the waves at a beach.....such is the case with all workers for, Cainologists and salvation losers.....their dogma tosses like the sea during a storm...and you are making the list as one of the top 10 deceivers I have seen on this site in my 5 years
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Nazarene Article 8 from their statement of faith
8. We believe [that repentance, which is a sincere and thorough change of the mind in regard to sin, involving a sense of personal guilt and a voluntary turning away from sin, is demanded of all who have by act or purpose become sinners against God.] [T]the Spirit of God gives to all who will repent the gracious help of penitence of heart and hope of mercy, that they may believe unto pardon and spiritual life. Repentance, which is a sincere and thorough change of the mind in regard to sin, involving a sense of personal guilt and a voluntary turning away from sin, is demanded of all who have by act or purpose become sinners against God.
We believe that all persons may fall from grace and apostatize and, unless they repent of their sins, be hopelessly and eternally lost. We believe that regenerate persons need not return to sin but may live in unbroken fellowship with God through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit who bears witness with our spirits that we are children of God.
(2 Chronicles 7:14; Psalms 32:5-6; 51:1-17; Isaiah 55:6-7; Jeremiah 3:12-14; Ezekiel 18:30-32; 33:14-16; Mark 1:14-15; Luke 3:1-14; 13:1-5; 18:9-14; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 17:30-31; 26:16-18; Romans 2:4; 2 Corinthians 7:8-11; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 2 Peter 3:9)
In all christian church as reflected by the Prophets, Jesus, the apostles we have to turn away from sin,
put our faith in Christ and walk in His ways.
What is so odd is there are people who call themselves believers doubt this reality.
Jesus saved us from sin and death, not so that we might still be sinful and kill ourselves.
Sin is not some odd little issue, it is the cause of the fall of man, judgement to hell eternal,
the destruction of men and women down through the ages. Only a fool would declare we
are safe to continue in sin and God will bless us. This is exactly what Israel did and they died.
But for some, it appears death is just something to shrug off. All I can say is you have not seen
enough and live to secure a life in dream land, and it is probably too late for you. The problem
with wealth is it makes people lazy and lets their hearts deceive them into saying God would
never send His people to hell, ever. But if they are sinners, evil doers, you never knew Him.
This is the age of apostacy, where there is no fear and people do what is right in their own
eyes, God help them when the hammer drops and the truth is revealed.
8. We believe [that repentance, which is a sincere and thorough change of the mind in regard to sin, involving a sense of personal guilt and a voluntary turning away from sin, is demanded of all who have by act or purpose become sinners against God.] [T]the Spirit of God gives to all who will repent the gracious help of penitence of heart and hope of mercy, that they may believe unto pardon and spiritual life. Repentance, which is a sincere and thorough change of the mind in regard to sin, involving a sense of personal guilt and a voluntary turning away from sin, is demanded of all who have by act or purpose become sinners against God.
We believe that all persons may fall from grace and apostatize and, unless they repent of their sins, be hopelessly and eternally lost. We believe that regenerate persons need not return to sin but may live in unbroken fellowship with God through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit who bears witness with our spirits that we are children of God.
(2 Chronicles 7:14; Psalms 32:5-6; 51:1-17; Isaiah 55:6-7; Jeremiah 3:12-14; Ezekiel 18:30-32; 33:14-16; Mark 1:14-15; Luke 3:1-14; 13:1-5; 18:9-14; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 17:30-31; 26:16-18; Romans 2:4; 2 Corinthians 7:8-11; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 2 Peter 3:9)
In all christian church as reflected by the Prophets, Jesus, the apostles we have to turn away from sin,
put our faith in Christ and walk in His ways.
What is so odd is there are people who call themselves believers doubt this reality.
Jesus saved us from sin and death, not so that we might still be sinful and kill ourselves.
Sin is not some odd little issue, it is the cause of the fall of man, judgement to hell eternal,
the destruction of men and women down through the ages. Only a fool would declare we
are safe to continue in sin and God will bless us. This is exactly what Israel did and they died.
But for some, it appears death is just something to shrug off. All I can say is you have not seen
enough and live to secure a life in dream land, and it is probably too late for you. The problem
with wealth is it makes people lazy and lets their hearts deceive them into saying God would
never send His people to hell, ever. But if they are sinners, evil doers, you never knew Him.
This is the age of apostacy, where there is no fear and people do what is right in their own
eyes, God help them when the hammer drops and the truth is revealed.
Strange. How difficult is it to find the answer, no rely on someone you know. Bit like getting into
heaven because a teacher told you it
Nazarene Article 8 from their statement of faith
8. We believe [that repentance, which is a sincere and thorough change of the mind in regard to sin, involving a sense of personal guilt and a voluntary turning away from sin, is demanded of all who have by act or purpose become sinners against God.] [T]the Spirit of God gives to all who will repent the gracious help of penitence of heart and hope of mercy, that they may believe unto pardon and spiritual life. Repentance, which is a sincere and thorough change of the mind in regard to sin, involving a sense of personal guilt and a voluntary turning away from sin, is demanded of all who have by act or purpose become sinners against God.
We believe that all persons may fall from grace and apostatize and, unless they repent of their sins, be hopelessly and eternally lost. We believe that regenerate persons need not return to sin but may live in unbroken fellowship with God through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit who bears witness with our spirits that we are children of God.
(2 Chronicles 7:14; Psalms 32:5-6; 51:1-17; Isaiah 55:6-7; Jeremiah 3:12-14; Ezekiel 18:30-32; 33:14-16; Mark 1:14-15; Luke 3:1-14; 13:1-5; 18:9-14; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 17:30-31; 26:16-18; Romans 2:4; 2 Corinthians 7:8-11; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 2 Peter 3:9)
heaven because a teacher told you it
Nazarene Article 8 from their statement of faith
8. We believe [that repentance, which is a sincere and thorough change of the mind in regard to sin, involving a sense of personal guilt and a voluntary turning away from sin, is demanded of all who have by act or purpose become sinners against God.] [T]the Spirit of God gives to all who will repent the gracious help of penitence of heart and hope of mercy, that they may believe unto pardon and spiritual life. Repentance, which is a sincere and thorough change of the mind in regard to sin, involving a sense of personal guilt and a voluntary turning away from sin, is demanded of all who have by act or purpose become sinners against God.
We believe that all persons may fall from grace and apostatize and, unless they repent of their sins, be hopelessly and eternally lost. We believe that regenerate persons need not return to sin but may live in unbroken fellowship with God through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit who bears witness with our spirits that we are children of God.
(2 Chronicles 7:14; Psalms 32:5-6; 51:1-17; Isaiah 55:6-7; Jeremiah 3:12-14; Ezekiel 18:30-32; 33:14-16; Mark 1:14-15; Luke 3:1-14; 13:1-5; 18:9-14; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 17:30-31; 26:16-18; Romans 2:4; 2 Corinthians 7:8-11; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 2 Peter 3:9)
Dictionaries - Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology - Repentance
Repentance [N] [T] [E]
Two requisites of repentance included in sub are "to turn from evil, and to turn to the good." Most critical theologically is the idea of returning to God, or turning away from evil. If one turns away from God, apostasy is indicated. Three times Ezekiel included God's call to the people of Israel: "Repent! Turn from your idols and renounce all your detestable practices!" ( 14:6 ); "Repent! Turn away from all your offenses" ( 18:30 ); "Turn! Turn from your evil ways" ( 33:11 ). Such a call was characteristic of the prophets (see, e.g., Isa 45:22 ; 55:7 ; Joel 2:12-13 ).
The Septuagint underlines this idea by usually translating sub by epi (apo-)strepho [ajpostrevfw] (to turn about, or to turn away from). To be abandoned are both evil intentions and evil deeds, and both motive and conduct are to be radically changed. A striking example is found in Isaiah 1:16-17: "Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong, learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow."
One may detect two sides to this turning/converting. There is the free sovereign act of God's mercy, and a conscious decision to turn to God (a turning that goes beyond sorrow and contrition).
Confession of sins is both commanded and frequently illustrated (e.g., in the penitential prayers, as Pss. 25 and 51). When one is guilty of various sins, "he must confess in what way he has sinned" in order to receive atonement and forgiveness ( Lev 5:5 ; 26:40-42 ). Thus, confession belongs to repentance, and is needed for divine forgiveness (cf. 1 John 1:9 ). A great prophecy/ promise is given in the Book of Isaiah: "The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins" ( 59:20 ).
Repentance [N] [T] [E]
Two requisites of repentance included in sub are "to turn from evil, and to turn to the good." Most critical theologically is the idea of returning to God, or turning away from evil. If one turns away from God, apostasy is indicated. Three times Ezekiel included God's call to the people of Israel: "Repent! Turn from your idols and renounce all your detestable practices!" ( 14:6 ); "Repent! Turn away from all your offenses" ( 18:30 ); "Turn! Turn from your evil ways" ( 33:11 ). Such a call was characteristic of the prophets (see, e.g., Isa 45:22 ; 55:7 ; Joel 2:12-13 ).
The Septuagint underlines this idea by usually translating sub by epi (apo-)strepho [ajpostrevfw] (to turn about, or to turn away from). To be abandoned are both evil intentions and evil deeds, and both motive and conduct are to be radically changed. A striking example is found in Isaiah 1:16-17: "Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong, learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow."
One may detect two sides to this turning/converting. There is the free sovereign act of God's mercy, and a conscious decision to turn to God (a turning that goes beyond sorrow and contrition).
Confession of sins is both commanded and frequently illustrated (e.g., in the penitential prayers, as Pss. 25 and 51). When one is guilty of various sins, "he must confess in what way he has sinned" in order to receive atonement and forgiveness ( Lev 5:5 ; 26:40-42 ). Thus, confession belongs to repentance, and is needed for divine forgiveness (cf. 1 John 1:9 ). A great prophecy/ promise is given in the Book of Isaiah: "The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins" ( 59:20 ).
Wow...I don't think it's the same Bill.
If I tell you you're lost...it's making a judgement on the condition of your soul.
If I say God Help Your Soul....it could mean that one is lost OR it could mean for God to help the person understand better....it's more questionable.
YOU ARE LOST is definite.
Having said that...I didn't follow the posts...
I'm just such a stickler for English...
If I tell you you're lost...it's making a judgement on the condition of your soul.
If I say God Help Your Soul....it could mean that one is lost OR it could mean for God to help the person understand better....it's more questionable.
YOU ARE LOST is definite.
Having said that...I didn't follow the posts...
I'm just such a stickler for English...
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We have to grow.
2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
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He didn't know them because they were LAWLESS....
Not how YOU mean it...that they weren't born again.
Where in that whole passage is the idea of being born again even brought up??
NOWHERE!
Mathew 7:13-23
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
New American Standard Bible
14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
A Tree and Its Fruit
15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
Nowhere in the above verses is being born again even mentioned.
Jesus only mentioned this 3 or 4 times.
He DID, instead, speak of good works/deeds and being lawful and obeying God.
It would be good for everyone to understand this....
Not how YOU mean it...that they weren't born again.
Where in that whole passage is the idea of being born again even brought up??
NOWHERE!
Mathew 7:13-23
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
New American Standard Bible
14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
A Tree and Its Fruit
15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
Nowhere in the above verses is being born again even mentioned.
Jesus only mentioned this 3 or 4 times.
He DID, instead, speak of good works/deeds and being lawful and obeying God.
It would be good for everyone to understand this....
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Paul was speaking presently about what he was before Jesus saved him.
Paul did not struggle with sin after Jesus saved him the way he did before Jesus saved him.
Paul in no way remained doing the sins that earned him the self-given title of Worst of Sinners. He said that about himself because BEFORE Jesus saved him, he was a violent man; he gave approval of Stephens’s death, guarded over the clothes that belonged to the men who killed Stephen. Can you imagine men taking off their clothes so that blood would not get splattered on them while they stone someone to death, and how Paul guarded these evil men's clothes while they killed Stephen?
Saul put many of the saints in prison, and when they were put to death, he cast his vote against them. Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison. Acts 22:4, Acts 22:20, Acts 26:10, Acts 8:3.
That is why Paul said he was the worst of sinners. Not because he kept sinning after he was saved! Pastors in many if not all denominations teach that falseness, that Paul, after Jesus saved him, struggled with sin so much and was the worst of sinners.
Paul did not struggle with sin after Jesus saved him the way he did before Jesus saved him.
Paul in no way remained doing the sins that earned him the self-given title of Worst of Sinners. He said that about himself because BEFORE Jesus saved him, he was a violent man; he gave approval of Stephens’s death, guarded over the clothes that belonged to the men who killed Stephen. Can you imagine men taking off their clothes so that blood would not get splattered on them while they stone someone to death, and how Paul guarded these evil men's clothes while they killed Stephen?
Saul put many of the saints in prison, and when they were put to death, he cast his vote against them. Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison. Acts 22:4, Acts 22:20, Acts 26:10, Acts 8:3.
That is why Paul said he was the worst of sinners. Not because he kept sinning after he was saved! Pastors in many if not all denominations teach that falseness, that Paul, after Jesus saved him, struggled with sin so much and was the worst of sinners.
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I agree that this is a possible view to take. So I ask myself a question.
Did God ask people to specify particular sins to confess and offer sacrifices for, and was He very specific
about for what should be done for particular sins? And the answer is yes.
Now the temple is the shadow of Gods attitude to sin and how we resolve and grow in grace.
So in the new covenant, we are to deal with sin in a similar way. Jesus is the atoning sacrifice but
getting right about sin has not changed.
'When anyone is guilty in any of these ways, he must confess in what way he has sinned
and, as a penalty for the sin he has committed, he must bring to the LORD a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.
Lev 5:5-6
Say to the Israelites: 'When a man or woman wrongs another in any way and so is unfaithful to the LORD, that person is guilty
and must confess the sin he has committed. He must make full restitution for his wrong, add one fifth to it and give it all to the person he has wronged.
Num 5:6-7
Now the principles are simple. Theft or slander is different to murder, or taking the Lords name in vain.
You can make restitution for theft and give back the stolen items and pay more for the crime.
Murder is different, and the civil authorities have to get involved.
It is easy to think about daily issues, wrong thoughts, not honouring speed limits, or something we are
obligated to, lying about things to avoid consequences etc. There maybe little consequences to make
restitution for, but without being specific and working through our rebellion it is easy for sin to be
a lifestyle rather than acknowledging we are a Holy people called to be light shinning in the darkness.
Did God ask people to specify particular sins to confess and offer sacrifices for, and was He very specific
about for what should be done for particular sins? And the answer is yes.
Now the temple is the shadow of Gods attitude to sin and how we resolve and grow in grace.
So in the new covenant, we are to deal with sin in a similar way. Jesus is the atoning sacrifice but
getting right about sin has not changed.
'When anyone is guilty in any of these ways, he must confess in what way he has sinned
and, as a penalty for the sin he has committed, he must bring to the LORD a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.
Lev 5:5-6
Say to the Israelites: 'When a man or woman wrongs another in any way and so is unfaithful to the LORD, that person is guilty
and must confess the sin he has committed. He must make full restitution for his wrong, add one fifth to it and give it all to the person he has wronged.
Num 5:6-7
Now the principles are simple. Theft or slander is different to murder, or taking the Lords name in vain.
You can make restitution for theft and give back the stolen items and pay more for the crime.
Murder is different, and the civil authorities have to get involved.
It is easy to think about daily issues, wrong thoughts, not honouring speed limits, or something we are
obligated to, lying about things to avoid consequences etc. There maybe little consequences to make
restitution for, but without being specific and working through our rebellion it is easy for sin to be
a lifestyle rather than acknowledging we are a Holy people called to be light shinning in the darkness.
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