Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What you said right here makes Paul doing things still that qualify him to be the worst of sinners. You said present and future sins.
WHen you stand in front of God, ALL of your sins will be present before him

So yes, from the very first sin you commit till the very last sin you commit will fall in one moment,

Paul understood, this, I can just pray one day YOU Understand this, so you can repent.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Yup this is right .....turn to God, and repent does not mean feel sorry for one's sins.
Repent is not contrition
Though I did regret it--I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while--
yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.
Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
2 Cor 7:8-10

Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up
James 4:7-10

On the first day, Jonah started into the city. He proclaimed: "Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned."
The Ninevites believed God. They declared a fast, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.
Jonah 3:4-5

if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14

Repentance and sorrow go hand in hand. Sin destroys us, and when we repent we are deeply
wounded by the hurt we have caused. It is like night and day, the joy of getting away with
things, followed by the sadness of knowing the hurt and damage we have done and wanting
sincerely to put things right.

For me this is not something I have to show a believer, this is what is written on our hearts
the day we met Jesus. There is nothing clearer to me of those who have met our Lord and Saviour
and those who have experienced something different.

Jonah went to Nineveh, to preach judgement. They repented, humbled themselves and desired
to not behave as they had before. Jesus took this very example as what the cross meant to
the world, the same as the sign of Jonah being in the whale and surviving.

Those who have ears to hear and eyes to see will know. God bless you all.
This is a sad testimony of where simple spiritual reality is in many.
We need to mourn the pure arrogance displayed and the judgement that follows unless humbleness
and repentance truly follow. The great judgement day rests upon this reality.

Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is here Matt 3:2
 

FollowHisSteps

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Feb 15, 2019
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WHen you stand in front of God, ALL of your sins will be present before him
So yes, from the very first sin you commit till the very last sin you commit will fall in one moment,
Paul understood, this, I can just pray one day YOU Understand this, so you can repent.
And what is repentance to you? Accepting Christ and continuing in the same sinful lifestyle,
or walking in love and righteousness by abiding in Him?

Speaking with authority then denying the reality of Christ and the cross is just fake faith.
Unless Christs love rules your heart, you are just a polluted empty clanging vessel.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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The gospel is not: "Good news everyone, we don't have to obey God anymore".
Never said it was. Typical straw man argument. Those who do not believe the gospel do not obey God. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) The gospel is not: "Good news everyone, Christ is an IN-sufficient Savior, so we must merit eternal life based on the merits of our obedience/works."
 

FollowHisSteps

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Feb 15, 2019
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Yep. Thanks, Once again you prove you teach works

Jesus said he would NEVER let us go. We HAVE eternal life. We will NEVER HUNGER OR THIRST. He will LOSE NONE he even gave us the SEAL of the spirit as a pledge (until the day we are ressurected) We HAVE been justified. He even said we have not been given the spirit of fear but of a sound mind, and a father we can call our ABBA, John went as far to say the things he wrote, he wrote so we can KNOW we have eternal life. And on this FACT (which paul said in titus the God, who can not lie, promised before time began) is the basis for us to continue to entrust our lives to him , Paul said Jesus took all that was against us contrary to us, and nailed it to the cross. Having circumcized us with the circumcision made wiht out hands by the baptism of the spirit.

But hey, You go follow your God of fear.. I just pray you repent before you see him, Because you will not be happy if you do not.
People often forget an important point, are they in the Kingdom at all.
Test ones heart. Does it respond with love and joy, or hatred and bitterness?

The promises upon which people cling, while knowing nothing of Christs cleansing and holiness
is just a religion, a statement of beliefs that has not touched them. And yes death is desperately
sad, anxious and overwhelming, but without Jesus in ones heart all is lost, awaiting the judgement
seat of the Father.

"Lord Lord" "Depart from me evil doers, I never knew you"

The more people speak of their understanding of sin and repentance the more it is plain they
have nothing.

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Heb 12:14
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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People often forget an important point, are they in the Kingdom at all.
Test ones heart. Does it respond with love and joy, or hatred and bitterness?

The promises upon which people cling, while knowing nothing of Christs cleansing and holiness
is just a religion, a statement of beliefs that has not touched them. And yes death is desperately
sad, anxious and overwhelming, but without Jesus in ones heart all is lost, awaiting the judgement
seat of the Father.

"Lord Lord" "Depart from me evil doers, I never knew you"

The more people speak of their understanding of sin and repentance the more it is plain they
have nothing.

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Heb 12:14
your heart produced " this place is full of old, bitter retires ".

very loving.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Never said it was. Typical straw man argument. Those who do not believe the gospel do not obey God. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) The gospel is not: "Good news everyone, Christ is an IN-sufficient Savior, so we must merit eternal life based on the merits of our obedience/works."
In Christ we overcome.

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:3-4

It is obvious so many claim to know Jesus yet their submission to the world declares otherwise.
The word of God is life, it is freedom, it is victory but only if you put it into action.

No medicine works until it is taken. And the lies spoken about repentance, obedience, love and the
heart declare this is not the Kingdom of heaven being declared, just worldly comprise with a Christian skin.
 

FollowHisSteps

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Feb 15, 2019
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your heart produced " this place is full of old, bitter retires ".
very loving.
Truth hurts, but we can repent and find healing in Christ.
I know how bitterness destroys the soul, but Christs love and forgiveness brings life.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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Yep. Thanks, Once again you prove you teach works

Jesus said he would NEVER let us go.

He said it could be a dreadful thing to be in his hands.


We have eternal life and at the resurrection if we stand firm until the end.

We will NEVER HUNGER OR THIRST. He will LOSE NONE he even gave us the SEAL of the spirit as a pledge (until the day we are ressurected)

He said he would not lose one that God gave when he came to earth.

Don't trample the blood of the Lamb.

He even said we have not been given the spirit of fear but of a sound mind, and a father we can call our ABBA, John went as far to say the things he wrote, he wrote so we can KNOW we have eternal life.

Look how many times John warns us: We are told how to remain in Jesus, John 6:56, and if we do Jesus will remain in us, John 15:4. Jesus tells us of the good if we remain in him, John 15:5, and of the bad when we do not, John 15:6. Jesus exhorts us to remain in him, John 15:9, 10, and 1 John 2:24.
And on this FACT (which paul said in titus the God, who can not lie, promised before time began) is the basis for us to continue to entrust our lives to him ,

Look at this:

Blot people out, Exodus 32:32-33.
 

YourTruthGod

Active member
Mar 9, 2019
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Never said it was. Typical straw man argument. Those who do not believe the gospel do not obey God. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) The gospel is not: "Good news everyone, Christ is an IN-sufficient Savior, so we must merit eternal life based on the merits of our obedience/works."
You have been following this thread carefully, and you know there was someone who admitted he didn't give any sin up, and he believes the gospel.
When you say we don't have to believe AND obey to get saved, you ARE saying the good news is we don't have to obey God.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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"Lord Lord" "Depart from me evil doers, I never knew you"
Apart from the blood of Christ, everyone would be seen in the eyes of the Lord as an evil doer because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) I will never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that man is saved by works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and not in Christ alone. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation based on their works.

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Heb 12:14
The NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. To be "sanctified" is to be "set apart/made holy." Without justification, there is no sanctification. Those who have been justified by faith are also sanctified/set apart/made holy before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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You have been following this thread carefully, and you know there was someone who admitted he didn't give any sin up, and he believes the gospel.
When you say we don't have to believe AND obey to get saved, you ARE saying the good news is we don't have to obey God.
have you given up sin?

what time and day did that occur?
 

FollowHisSteps

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Feb 15, 2019
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Paul was speaking presently about what he was before Jesus saved him.

Paul did not struggle with sin after Jesus saved him the way he did before Jesus saved him.

Paul in no way remained doing the sins that earned him the self-given title of Worst of Sinners. He said that about himself because BEFORE Jesus saved him, he was a violent man; he gave approval of Stephens’s death, guarded over the clothes that belonged to the men who killed Stephen. Can you imagine men taking off their clothes so that blood would not get splattered on them while they stone someone to death, and how Paul guarded these evil men's clothes while they killed Stephen?

Saul put many of the saints in prison, and when they were put to death, he cast his vote against them. Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison. Acts 22:4, Acts 22:20, Acts 26:10, Acts 8:3.

That is why Paul said he was the worst of sinners. Not because he kept sinning after he was saved! Pastors in many if not all denominations teach that falseness, that Paul, after Jesus saved him, struggled with sin so much and was the worst of sinners.
Presently about what he was before?
What a joke man. Where do you come up with this stuff?
Change in Paul coming to Christ brought a change in him so he could declare himself blameless, pure, holy.
Obviously EG, you have not read the bible. If you have not much has stuck :cry:
 

FollowHisSteps

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Feb 15, 2019
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Let us think about sin a little. All sins lead to death. One sin destroys eternally as much as another.
So let us imagine murder as the sin, because it is graphic.

You walk into church and everyone you meet has blood on their hands, would you immediately run out
and call the police? Yes.

When you meet someone who appear nice and friendly, puts out their hand with blood dripping off it,
would you then not run away and want nothing to do with them? Yes.

This is sin, this is the horror of such behaviour, and its deadly judgemental consequences.

For sin we declare God will torment sinners in hell for all eternity, literally roast them alive.
But there is a group who say, yes we believe this, except we can sin with impunity and God just
ignores it because we are safe, got the special inside pass, nothing happening here guys.

This is literal foolishness. If one knows a Holy God who kills people to helping steady a cart,
executes people for gathering wood on the sabbath, yet will ignore sinners sinning who claim
to know Jesus is just spiritual suicide.

Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Heb 12:14

If you do not know Holiness you will never see the Lord, be saved.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
He said it could be a dreadful thing to be in his hands.
Yes it will be, I fear you one day will found out how dreadful

I am his child. He is my Abba. I can come to him freely because he adopted me. Not because I was worthy or earned it. But because he loved me.

he loved me when I was his enemy, How much more will he love me as his child?

We have eternal life and at the resurrection if we stand firm until the end.

Thats called conditional life. Not eternal life. Eternal means forever. if it can ever stop being , it is not eternal.

Again, You have an issue with language

He said he would not lose one that God gave when he came to earth.
John 6: And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Jesus said otherwise.

Don't trample the blood of the Lamb.


You do that with your gospel of works my friend. You reject the blood as being sufficient to do what it was supposed to do. WASH away ALL SIN.

Look how many times John warns us: We are told how to remain in Jesus, John 6:56, and if we do Jesus will remain in us, John 15:4. Jesus tells us of the good if we remain in him, John 15:5, and of the bad when we do not, John 15:6. Jesus exhorts us to remain in him, John 15:9, 10, and 1 John 2:24.

Look at this:
Blot people out, Exodus 32:32-33.
Yeah, Look what John said. Did John contradict himself?

1 John 3:
Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

So if a person who is living in sin has NEVER SEEN GOD. How could they ever have BEEN SAVED, and then LOST IT?

If I child of God can not LIVE IN SIN because he has been BORN OF GOD. How could they ever sin so much that they could be lost?

Once again, You need to go to a church and learn about the bible. Because you have either been led astray or have led yourself astray.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
your heart produced " this place is full of old, bitter retires ".

very loving.
Its all good bro. I do not read a thing that SINNER writes.. He can keep on going, Because the more he posts the more he proves who he really is. His sin will come back to him. He may be able to hide from the mods. But he can’t Hide from God.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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You have been following this thread carefully, and you know there was someone who admitted he didn't give any sin up, and he believes the gospel. When you say we don't have to believe AND obey to get saved, you ARE saying the good news is we don't have to obey God.
What do you mean by he didn't give any sin up? Believers are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time (1 John 1:8-10), yet believers do not practice sin either (1 John 3:9) and to "practice" describes one's lifestyle or bent of life, with no goal or effort to stop. Just bring on the sin!

We have to believe to be saved (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 1 Corinthians 1:21 etc..). Apparently you think that believing is not enough to save which implies that you believe the OBJECT of our BELIEF (Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption) is IN-sufficient to save. This also also explains why you continue to trust in acts of obedience/works for salvation.

The bad news is all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and the wages of sin is death... The good news is the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 3:23; 6:23) It's not about we don't have to obey God, but we want to obey God. Believers are new creations in Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:17) Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Its all good bro. I do not read a thing that SINNER writes.. He can keep on going, Because the more he posts the more he proves who he really is. His sin will come back to him. He may be able to hide from the mods. But he can’t Hide from God.
If we hide from the word of God, then we are shutting God out of our lives.
A foolish man, who is proud and arrogant will always boast and bully those who are less
able, until they meet the truth and God begins to speak.

People learn from an early age how to project, intimidate and pitch their ideas and presence.
It is a great thing to watch and see performed. The only problem is if they have made a fundamental
mistake in their point. They are then just a bully and arrogant.

Jesus never bullied, He just waited for love and truth to be demonstrated and listened to those who
wanted to know healing, love, life, forgiveness of sins and walking in the ways of Heaven.

Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.
In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."
Matt 5:15-17

Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Rom 13:10

Sadly if you do not know love and have locked the love you have away in your heart because
of hatred and bitterness, these words will pass by without effect.

But I share to those whose hearts are open and willing to listen to Jesus.
He calls us to repent to humble ourselves and to learn from Him the ways of heaven and thereby
meet Him in eternity and today as we begin this walk. Amen. Thank you Jesus.