Does God love all mankind?

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The man who has a poor and contrite spirit has already been regenerated and given a new heart.

No.. He has been prepared by the Holy Spirit to receive the gift of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. It is that acceptance that transitions one from being damned to being saved..

Being remorseful and contrite for ones transgressions does not save a person.. But it is a correct step in the Way that leads to eternal salvation..

 

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To my understanding, the difference in the way they reacted was due to their heart condition. One group God had replaced their heart from stone to flesh in regeneration. The other group still have the heart of stone which cannot be pricked (made to feel guilty of breaking a spiritual law that they cannot discern). In my first post I quoted from Psalms 73 where David states that God does not chasten (convict) those that he does not love, because he does chasten (convict) those that he loves, such as those in Acts 7.

In the scripture where God chastens people the scripture likens it to a human father chastening his son.. This establishes the relationship between God and whom He chastens.. If God is chastening a person that person has already transitioned from being unsaved to being an Adopted son or Daughter of God..

Hebrews 12: KJV
7 "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? {8} But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. {9} Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"

But to those who are not sons they are likened to rebels or lowly servants in bondage. They suffer wrath..

Romans 8: KJV
14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. {15} For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. {16} The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: {17} And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

 

[ForestGreenCook]

No.. He has been prepared by the Holy Spirit to receive the gift of the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ.. It is that acceptance that transitions one from being damned to being saved..

Being remorseful and contrite for ones transgressions does not save a person.. But it is a correct step in the Way that leads to eternal salvation..

Eph 2:5 says at the time of regeneration we were DEAD spiritually (unable to accept). When Jesus raised Lazarus, from the dead, did Lazarus have the choice to accept or reject? To me, that is what dead means. Do you believe that we can be delivered (saved) while we live here on earth? Is there a deliverance when we pray that God would heal a sickness, and he does heal us? If that is so, are we not delivered (saved) many times while we live here on earth?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

In the scripture where God chastens people the scripture likens it to a human father chastening his son.. This establishes the relationship between God and whom He chastens.. If God is chastening a person that person has already transitioned from being unsaved to being an Adopted son or Daughter of God..

Hebrews 12: KJV
7 "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? {8} But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. {9} Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?"

But to those who are not sons they are likened to rebels or lowly servants in bondage. They suffer wrath..

Romans 8: KJV
14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. {15} For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. {16} The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: {17} And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

If God only chastens those that he loves, which you say are the ones that have transitioned from being unsaved, then does he not love those that have not been transitioned? I am just trying to understand how you interpret it. It might help me to understand if you could give me the scripture where it says "those who are not sons are likened to rebels or lowly servants in bondage. They suffer wrath.."

 

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Eph 2:5 says at the time of regeneration we were DEAD spiritually (unable to accept). When Jesus raised Lazarus, from the dead, did Lazarus have the choice to accept or reject?

Well i am not sure what you are trying to say in regards to Lazarus.. But no lazarus had no say in regards to Jesus bringing him back to life.. just like we had no say in if we where going to be created or not..

Do you believe that we can be delivered (saved) while we live here on earth?

I believe a person is either in the right place with God and is in a state of salvation or they are in a state of damnation.. So i am saved here on earth at this particular moment in time.. Now i cannot see how i could ever change and start to disbelieve Jesus and reject His atonement.. But people can fall away from the truth and reject the gift of salvation they once embraced..

Is there a deliverance when we pray that God would heal a sickness, and he does heal us?

Well there is deliverance from that sickness if His will is to heal us..

If that is so, are we not delivered (saved) many times while we live here on earth?

What are you talking about?

Delivered from our deserved eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire multiple times?? No.. That happens just once when we believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for our salvation..

Delivered from worldly troubles?? Yes..

 

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If God only chastens those that he loves, which you say are the ones that have transitioned from being unsaved, then does he not love those that have not been transitioned?

Yes.. God is perfect in Love and therefore Loves all human beings and wishes all to come to repentance and all to be saved.. But as in a human to human relationship it takes both people to love each other for their to be a loving relationship.. Same with our relationship with God.. The perfect love of God has no eternal benefit for us if we do not Love the LORD our God back.. I have personally experienced a few of those unrequited love situations in my life So i know what it is like to love someone and they having absolutely no interest in me.. But such is life with human beings..

I am just trying to understand how you interpret it. It might help me to understand if you could give me the scripture where it says "those who are not sons are likened to rebels or lowly servants in bondage. They suffer wrath.."

Not sure if i can give you a verse that says the exact thing you want to see but maybe these two verses demonstrates the clear divide between Christians and unbelievers..

Ephesians 2: KJV
2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: {3} Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Well i am not sure what you are trying to say in regards to Lazarus.. But no lazarus had no say in regards to Jesus bringing him back to life.. just like we had no say in if we where going to be created or not..



I believe a person is either in the right place with God and is in a state of salvation or they are in a state of damnation.. So i am saved here on earth at this particular moment in time.. Now i cannot see how i could ever change and start to disbelieve Jesus and reject His atonement.. But people can fall away from the truth and reject the gift of salvation they once embraced..



Well there is deliverance from that sickness if His will is to heal us..



What are you talking about?

Delivered from our deserved eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire multiple times?? No.. That happens just once when we believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for our salvation..

Delivered from worldly troubles?? Yes..

Your answer "Well there is DELIVERANCE from that sickness if His will is to heal us." tells me that you believe that there is salvation in that deliverance, as "salvation in the scriptures is by the Greek interpretation { a deliverance }. We then have to determine by proving scripture against scripture whether a verse using the word saved is applied to a timely deliverance or an eternal deliverance. I believe most of the salvation scripture have reference to a timely deliverance. The "multiple times" deliverance as you have stated are here in this time, not eternal. After we have been saved (delivered) eternally, we can still fall away every time that we yield ourselves to sin, then God pricks our heart and we repent. When we fall away the scriptures refer to it as being dead (to our fellowship with God , not eternally, until we repent). When we repent, the scriptures refer to that forgiveness from God , as a deliverance (salvation). My reference to Lazarus was to make the point that when we are dead in sin (as in Eph 2:5) we have no choice in choosing to be reborn to a spiritual life.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes.. God is perfect in Love and therefore Loves all human beings and wishes all to come to repentance and all to be saved.. But as in a human to human relationship it takes both people to love each other for their to be a loving relationship.. Same with our relationship with God.. The perfect love of God has no eternal benefit for us if we do not Love the LORD our God back.. I have personally experienced a few of those unrequited love situations in my life So i know what it is like to love someone and they having absolutely no interest in me.. But such is life with human beings..



Not sure if i can give you a verse that says the exact thing you want to see but maybe these two verses demonstrates the clear divide between Christians and unbelievers..

Ephesians 2: KJV
2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: {3} Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

We love God because he first loved us. The action by God showing his love for us was demonstrated in Eph 2:5. It is then after God showing his love to us first, that we were able to show our love for him. Back to the description of the natural man, in the fact that he cannot show love to a spiritual God that he cannot discern. (1 Cor 2:14).

 

[Deade]

Thread Title: Does God love all mankind?

In answer to the thread title: John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

 

[ForestGreenCook]

In answer to the thread title: John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Whosoever BELIEVETH (present tense) which makes it to pertain to believers, not to all mankind that WILL BELIEVE. There is a world of believers, and another world of non believers. This same world of believers also applies to John 1:29, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 cor 4:9, and 2 Cor 5:19.

 

[Deade]

Whosoever BELIEVETH (present tense) which makes it to pertain to believers, not to all mankind that WILL BELIEVE. There is a world of believers, and another world of non believers. This same world of believers also applies to John 1:29, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 cor 4:9, and 2 Cor 5:19.

I'll add this to the pot, believers will encompass far more than those that Christ referred as they that enter by the strait gate.

Matt. 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

 

[Nehemiah6]

Whosoever BELIEVETH (present tense) which makes it to pertain to believers, not to all mankind that WILL BELIEVE.

Another misrepresentation of the truth. Another lie of the devil. "Whosoever" means anyone and everyone who believes or will believe.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Another misrepresentation of the truth. Another lie of the devil. "Whosoever" means anyone and everyone who believes or will believe.

OK, then let us put it this way. What qualifies a person to be able to believe in a spiritual God? Its not the natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14, which says that he cannot discern spiritual things. God is a spirit and we must worship him in spirit and in truth, John 4:24. We are all born into this world as natural beings, without any righteousness of our own. How then we, as being dead spiritually. can become alive spiritually? Eph 2 tells us that when we were yet dead (spiritually) in sins God quickened us. The only people who can believe in a spiritual God are those that God has quickened (born again).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I'll add this to the pot, believers will encompass far more than those that Christ referred as they that enter by the strait gate.

Matt. 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

In order for the two gates to harmonize with all the other scriptures, I believe that all that go into both gates are born again believers. Those that enter the wide gate are children of God who are going about trying to establish their righteousness by their works, instead of understanding that the only righteousness they have is the imputed righteousness of Christ. Those entering the straight gate are those that the Holy Spirit has revealed the truth of Christ's doctrine to and are enjoying a life here on earth by following God's commandments.

 

[Deade]

In order for the two gates to harmonize with all the other scriptures, I believe that all that go into both gates are born again believers. Those that enter the wide gate are children of God who are going about trying to establish their righteousness by their works, instead of understanding that the only righteousness they have is the imputed righteousness of Christ. Those entering the straight gate are those that the Holy Spirit has revealed the truth of Christ's doctrine to and are enjoying a life here on earth by following God's commandments.

But it says the wide gate leads to destruction. Do you think believers are headed to destruction? And is destruction the last we hear of them?

 

[Nehemiah6]

OK, then let us put it this way. What qualifies a person to be able to believe in a spiritual God?

1. Even non-spiritual persons have a knowledge of God.

2. The Gentiles in Athens had a statue to "the unknown God".

3. Every religion in the world (possibly with the exception of Buddhism) speaks of a Supreme Being.

4. The Gospel specifically proclaims that (1) Jesus is God who became Man in order to pay for the sins of the whole world, (2) every man is a sinner in need of the Savior, (3) God offers eternal life to "whosoever" will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

5. It is God the Holy Spirit who shows people hearing the Gospel that (1) it is true and (2) they must obey God's command to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

So there is nothing mysterious about the power of the Gospel. It is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes.

 

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Your answer "Well there is DELIVERANCE from that sickness if His will is to heal us." tells me that you believe that there is salvation in that deliverance, as "salvation in the scriptures is by the Greek interpretation { a deliverance }.

No.. I made a distinction to the limit of those kinds of deliverance to the worldly things like sickness.. In no way do i believe being delivered from cancer is the same as being delivered from the eternal lake of fire..

We then have to determine by proving scripture against scripture whether a verse using the word saved is applied to a timely deliverance or an eternal deliverance. I believe most of the salvation scripture have reference to a timely deliverance. The "multiple times" deliverance as you have stated are here in this time, not eternal. After we have been saved (delivered) eternally, we can still fall away every time that we yield ourselves to sin,

I most strongly disagree with the part i have bolded... We do not fall away from salvation because we sin.. We fall away from salvation when we no longer believe Jesus ( His Words ) or we no longer trust that the Atonement He secured for our salvation is effective in saving us..

I believe that bolded part is Works salvation preaching and i do not believe anyone who believes that their eternal salvation is dependent on their success in avoiding sin has the Blood of the LORD Jesus Christ covering them.. We are saved by:

1) Believing Jesus..
2) Trusting in the Atonement that secures for us forgiveness for all our sins..

then God pricks our heart and we repent. When we fall away the scriptures refer to it as being dead (to our fellowship with God , not eternally, until we repent). When we repent, the scriptures refer to that forgiveness from God , as a deliverance (salvation).

So according to your doctrine the only conclusion i can come to is that if a person fails to repent each time they sin then their sin shall not be forgiven them and thus on the day of judgement they will be found guilty of that sin and will be cast into the eternal lake of fire... woe to the person then who forgets to repent each and every time they sin..

So if your doctrine is correct and a Christian is driving a car and someone cuts them of and they cuss that person out and while in the process of sinning this sin they lose control of their car and crash and are killed without having time to ask for forgiveness they will be doomed to the eternal lake of fire...

My reference to Lazarus was to make the point that when we are dead in sin (as in Eph 2:5) we have no choice in choosing to be reborn to a spiritual life.

Well i believe that each man can be saved when the Holy Spirit brings them conviction.. But i have said this before and you have stated your position before so we are just repeating our positions at this point..

 

[Adstar]

In answer to the thread title: John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Amen

 

[ForestGreenCook]

1. Even non-spiritual persons have a knowledge of God.

2. The Gentiles in Athens had a statue to "the unknown God".

3. Every religion in the world (possibly with the exception of Buddhism) speaks of a Supreme Being.

4. The Gospel specifically proclaims that (1) Jesus is God who became Man in order to pay for the sins of the whole world, (2) every man is a sinner in need of the Savior, (3) God offers eternal life to "whosoever" will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

5. It is God the Holy Spirit who shows people hearing the Gospel that (1) it is true and (2) they must obey God's command to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

So there is nothing mysterious about the power of the Gospel. It is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes.

There are people who do not believe that there is a God and believe in evolution. This is evidenced in 1 Cor 2:14 and in Psalms 53:2-3 and in other verses. Eternal salvation was secured,for those who are going to be in heaven, on the cross when Christ died for the sins of all that the Father gave him and all that he died for will live in heaven without the loss of even one. Many people do not have hearing ears to hear the gospel, even so, hearing the gospel can deliver you here in time, but it can not deliver you eternally. The scriptures say "in the gospel, you THINK you have eternal life, but they speak of me.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

No.. I made a distinction to the limit of those kinds of deliverance to the worldly things like sickness.. In no way do i believe being delivered from cancer is the same as being delivered from the eternal lake of fire..



I most strongly disagree with the part i have bolded... We do not fall away from salvation because we sin.. We fall away from salvation when we no longer believe Jesus ( His Words ) or we no longer trust that the Atonement He secured for our salvation is effective in saving us..

I believe that bolded part is Works salvation preaching and i do not believe anyone who believes that their eternal salvation is dependent on their success in avoiding sin has the Blood of the LORD Jesus Christ covering them.. We are saved by:

1) Believing Jesus..
2) Trusting in the Atonement that secures for us forgiveness for all our sins..





So according to your doctrine the only conclusion i can come to is that if a person fails to repent each time they sin then their sin shall not be forgiven them and thus on the day of judgement they will be found guilty of that sin and will be cast into the eternal lake of fire... woe to the person then who forgets to repent each and every time they sin..

So if your doctrine is correct and a Christian is driving a car and someone cuts them of and they cuss that person out and while in the process of sinning this sin they lose control of their car and crash and are killed without having time to ask for forgiveness they will be doomed to the eternal lake of fire...



Well i believe that each man can be saved when the Holy Spirit brings them conviction.. But i have said this before and you have stated your position before so we are just repeating our positions at this point..

With all due respect to you, You fail to see that there is a difference between the two deliverance's. The deliverance we have when we repent has nothing to do with our eternal deliverance. Christ's death on the cross for all those that he died for, erased every sin that they will ever commit. When the child of God commits a sin, it is covered eternally, but God still chastens us here in time. If repenting of a sin could save us eternally, it would have to be considered, eternal salvation by works, and we know that it is not by the works of man. I do understand you not being able to separate the different deliverance's, because I was unable to see it until I was 62 years old. The separation of the deliverance's is the only way that the scriptures can all harmonize. Without understanding the difference the salvation scriptures will tent to point to an action, or work, of man. to obtain eternal salvation, which can not be truth.