Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

1. It is not hunting it is facts, it is how you can tell the difference between the two.
Now, Time to put your money where your mouth is.
Are these things you mentioned required to maintain salvation.
Or what a person who has been saved are by nature doing?
(Waits patiently not expecting a direct answer)

I do not maintain my salvation, I walk in it.
Some would say this means maintain, but I would say that implies motive.

We are saved, by meeting Jesus and knowing Him. The thief of the cross sums this up very well.
The fruit of faith in the heart is confession of it to others. It is this heart change that is the
foundation, repentance, ( admitting ones sinful state, confessing ones sins, committing oneself
to a righteous walk and walking it ), having faith in the cross for the forgiveness of sins and believing
Christ can change us into His likeness through walking and following Him.

Our heart is to see Gods Kingdom come, His will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

It is clear that some things I thought were obvious is my spiritual experience are often not articulated.
1. An open cleansed heart.
2. Knowing Christ keeps us because of His love expressed through the cross .
3. Righteousness, doing good, loving others is our heart beat.
4. That we desire to be like Jesus, to know the fellowship of the saints, to uplift His name

Now it is obvious people have a very different experience of God and faith to me, and see things
through a very different perspective, as I articulated in my list.

But what is also clear is much of the bible can be filtered through heresy and compromise with
His principles and word. But walking in the light will always bring this out in the open.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not maintain my salvation, I walk in it.
Some would say this means maintain, but I would say that implies motive.

We are saved, by meeting Jesus and knowing Him. The thief of the cross sums this up very well.
The fruit of faith in the heart is confession of it to others. It is this heart change that is the
foundation, repentance, ( admitting ones sinful state, confessing ones sins, committing oneself
to a righteous walk and walking it ), having faith in the cross for the forgiveness of sins and believing
Christ can change us into His likeness through walking and following Him.

Our heart is to see Gods Kingdom come, His will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

It is clear that some things I thought were obvious is my spiritual experience are often not articulated.
1. An open cleansed heart.
2. Knowing Christ keeps us because of His love expressed through the cross .
3. Righteousness, doing good, loving others is our heart beat.
4. That we desire to be like Jesus, to know the fellowship of the saints, to uplift His name

Now it is obvious people have a very different experience of God and faith to me, and see things
through a very different perspective, as I articulated in my list.

But what is also clear is much of the bible can be filtered through heresy and compromise with
His principles and word. But walking in the light will always bring this out in the open.

As usual. You did not answer the question. And went in circles, trying to deflect

Everyone agrees with what you posted. We all agree a child of God will do those things

The question is, WHY do we do them

To maintain salvation (keep from losing salvation) or as a result (empowerd by) of being saved.

You opened the can of worms by responding to my post. So now your obligated to answer my question.

Which is it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ephesians 1:13

Historically speaking a "seal" was a "mark" indicating a letter or scroll was closed or placed at the end to indicate it was completed or closed.

When a king or someone of high status wanted to place an identifying mark with a letter, he would seal it with a resin imprint of his ring.
It is also proof of authenticity of the author


The Holy Spirit likewise seals to indicate that believer belongs to the Lord once they have believed on the gospel of salvation


The seal is the signature of the Holy Spirit on our life at the moment of belief, so not really about being opened or closed

Yes. It is there until we are delievered It has Gods own mark on it.. Proving its authenticity. What is in the letter. WILL BE CARRIED OUT.

Of course. What is in it? The promise of eternal life which was given to the person sealed.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Can the seal of the HS be removed?
Well a quick study of the passage (there is actually 2 of them which mention it) tells us it will. Not only that it will but when.
Eph 1: 13 - 14. - the day of redemption (ressurection day)
Eph 4: 30 - The day of redemption (ressurection day)
As for what is mentioned in these passages? That it can be lost for any other reason.
lets take the bible for what it says, and not twist it to mean other things.

If one takes this verse seriously, yes

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Heb 6:4-6

There is a sense where security becomes greater than knowing Christ or the reality of
His work in our hearts. If we know Jesus and the cross, nothing is more secure than Him.
If we just have a gooey feeling and a set of beliefs, being told this never can go away
reassures those who do not know the biting reality of sacrifice and laying everything on
the altar before the Lord, and breaking our hearts in humbleness and abandonment to
His mercy and forgiveness.

Let the Lord speak not man, His word guide you into truth and not listen to deceptive
teachers whose only wish is to reassure you into staying enslaved to sin and not walk
in the glorious freedom of Christs love and forgiveness no longer being bound to the
passions of this world. Amen

 

[UnderGrace]

It is this heart change that is the
foundation, repentance, ( admitting ones sinful state, confessing ones sins, committing oneself
to a righteous walk and walking it ), having faith in the cross for the forgiveness of sins and believing

Believing what exactly?

 

[Hevosmies]

Can the seal of the HS be removed?

Well a quick study of the passage (there is actually 2 of them which mention it) tells us it will. Not only that it will but when.

Eph 1: 13 - 14. - the day of redemption (ressurection day)
Eph 4: 30 - The day of redemption (ressurection day)

As for what is mentioned in these passages? That it can be lost for any other reason.

lets take the bible for what it says, and not twist it to mean other things.

There ya have it. You lose your salvation at the resurrection UNSEALED!

How can we avoid the resurrection? Oy vey!

 

[star]

So sad for you.

I'm sad for you.

 

[star]

You need to read carefully.

Philippians 3

No Confidence in the Flesh

1Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. 2Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. 3For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— 4though I myself have reasons for such confidence.

If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.

You need to read more carefully. Paul was once Saul, who persecuted the church before his transformation by Jesus Christ. Paul explains how he believed in "legalism" yet once Jesus got His hands on Saul, he became Paul and then shows true circumcision is of the "heart" of a person. It's all about what is in one's heart/soul.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

As usual. You did not answer the question. And went in circles, trying to deflect
Everyone agrees with what you posted. We all agree a child of God will do those things
The question is, WHY do we do them
To maintain salvation (keep from losing salvation) or as a result (empowerd by) of being saved.
You opened the can of worms by responding to my post. So now your obligated to answer my question.
Which is it?

Eg, please stop being pompous. You can only speak for yourself.
So your question is why do I follow Jesus. Because I love Him.
You talk about theory, not something of the heart.
A sinner cannot follow because they love Jesus, because they do not.
A sinner can think by trying to be good God will not judge them so harshly.
One apocryphal book balances good works to bad works to get into heaven.

So I know why I follow Jesus, why do you?
I suspect people who call their hearts or soul as desperately evil do not know
what it is to love Jesus and see His words are life itself. Do you feel like this?

And I find your attitude toward me is not good. You talk as if I am avoiding something
when I am avoiding nothing, I am walking in the light and sharing my heart.
I do not have fear, whether you could hurt me or not, I would still share.
And I have no obligation to you other than that which I accept. I hope you realise this,
because I answer to Jesus and not you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If one takes this verse seriously, yes

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Heb 6:4-6

There is a sense where security becomes greater than knowing Christ or the reality of
His work in our hearts. If we know Jesus and the cross, nothing is more secure than Him.
If we just have a gooey feeling and a set of beliefs, being told this never can go away
reassures those who do not know the biting reality of sacrifice and laying everything on
the altar before the Lord, and breaking our hearts in humbleness and abandonment to
His mercy and forgiveness.

Let the Lord speak not man, His word guide you into truth and not listen to deceptive
teachers whose only wish is to reassure you into staying enslaved to sin and not walk
in the glorious freedom of Christs love and forgiveness no longer being bound to the
passions of this world. Amen

That passage does not contradict the passage I gave

Those passages were given to people. Who may never have read the hebrews passage anyway. What your sayng is paul led those people astray not telling them it is possible for that seal to be removed BEFORE the day of redemption.


That passage says IF IT WER POSSIBLE. It does not say it is.

Still waiting for you to answer my question. Are you goin gto do what you always do and ignore direct questions?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eg, please stop being pompous.

Yep. Thanks, I hit a nerve didn’t I? This is how you always react peter. I was not being anything but asking a question.

1. You said I was wrong
2. You said I was wrong because of the reasons you posed
3. I asked you to prove it by asking the question.

Thats not pompus. Your the one being pompos by misdirecting the question to reflect better on you. And you want to keep this up this attack, feel free. It just exposes your true nature!

So your question is why do I follow Jesus.

No, I never asked that question at all. As Mailmandan said, you are using a strawman to deflect.

You said I was wrong. And your response was used to prove I was wrong.

So in response, I was asking you to PROVE by your statment I was wrong.

As usual. You refuse to answer. Because you KNOW by answering you will prove me right (not that it matter, I could care less. But for the sake of others who MAY SEE you here, it is for their benefit To [rove you always do this.. You attack others. Then when confronted, you attack them to deflect

One more time. Those things you stated (that we ALL AGREE ARE THINGS WHICH MUST BE TRUE

Why do you think we need to do them.

Because YOU ARE SAVED

Or to KEEP YOURSELF FROM LOSING SALVATION?

(Ps. I know your answer. So does everyone else who knows you. We just want you for once in your life to admit it.)

Either way, You said I was wrong. That is what this quesiron was abut. Prove I am wrong. By answering the question.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

That passage does not contradict the passage I gave
Those passages were given to people. Who may never have read the hebrews passage anyway. What your sayng is paul led those people astray not telling them it is possible for that seal to be removed BEFORE the day of redemption.
That passage says IF IT WER POSSIBLE. It does not say it is.
Still waiting for you to answer my question. Are you goin gto do what you always do and ignore direct questions?

Seals can be broken. A seal is a statement of intent, no more.
Paul is saying the Holy Spirit in our hearts shows we are alive in Him.

I have heard of people who have lost this presence and do not know why.
That worries me, because I would be lost without Him in my heart, truly bereft.

So Paul is saying if we stay in the faith, the Holy Spirit will abide as His seal of the
promise given to His people till the day of resurrection.

Sadly there are many, many people who have found this seal has gone.
So in your teaching, everything falls apart, because the Holy Spirit should have
stayed in the apostate unbelieving sinner who has now left the faith.

But that is what you are teaching. Not a good theology and also a desecration of
the Holy Temple which God is happy with. Nope, never, in fact the opposite it true.

 

[stonesoffire]

Ephesians 1:13

Historically speaking a "seal" was a "mark" indicating a letter or scroll was closed or placed at the end to indicate it was completed or closed.

When a king or someone of high status wanted to place an identifying mark with a letter, he would seal it with a resin imprint of his ring.
It is also proof of authenticity of the author


The Holy Spirit likewise seals to indicate that believer belongs to the Lord once they have believed on the gospel of salvation


The seal is the signature of the Holy Spirit on our life at the moment of belief, so not really about being opened or closed

This is to EG too. 😉

I know that Strongs states the seal as the Kings stamp of approval, but I think there's more to this. I'm seeing this more as His Mark. Looking at other scriptures, we see that we are planted with the Word or the seed as shown in parables in our good ground of our heart. Mark means character. We are sealed or marked with the character of God who is Holy. Also called the Spirit of Christ, anointing, within us.

I used the word unified before in another post. This is our oneness with God through the new birth. Sealed, marked, one. The new man.

And all together, the one new man or His body both in heaven, and on earth. We are one now, but will be realized in our ressurected new body.

Make sense? What God starts...foreknew...He finishes...completion.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Yep. Thanks, I hit a nerve didn’t I? This is how you always react peter. I was not being anything but asking a question.
1. You said I was wrong
2. You said I was wrong because of the reasons you posed
3. I asked you to prove it by asking the question.
Thats not pompus. Your the one being pompos by misdirecting the question to reflect better on you. And you want to keep this up this attack, feel free. It just exposes your true nature!
No, I never asked that question at all. As Mailmandan said, you are using a strawman to deflect.
You said I was wrong. And your response was used to prove I was wrong.
So in response, I was asking you to PROVE by your statment I was wrong.
As usual. You refuse to answer. Because you KNOW by answering you will prove me right (not that it matter, I could care less. But for the sake of others who MAY SEE you here, it is for their benefit To [rove you always do this.. You attack others. Then when confronted, you attack them to deflect
One more time. Those things you stated (that we ALL AGREE ARE THINGS WHICH MUST BE TRUE
Why do you think we need to do them.
Because YOU ARE SAVED
Or to KEEP YOURSELF FROM LOSING SALVATION?
(Ps. I know your answer. So does everyone else who knows you. We just want you for once in your life to admit it.)
Either way, You said I was wrong. That is what this quesiron was abut. Prove I am wrong. By answering the question.

EG, thank you for demonstrating you do not know what I am talking about.

We follow Jesus because we love Him.
If you do not love Him you are not saved.
This is the first commandment to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength.

And the fact love does not mean to you one is saved says everything.
And if I grew to hate Jesus and not walk in His ways, then I would deserve the lake of fire.

The Kingdom rests on these choices, freely given by God to us to make, brought into His
Kingdom by His mercy, love and grace.

I understand who you are, because you are so scared of so much, and have invented your ways
of deciding who are what is in the kingdom, while missing it all inside yourself.

John declared simply if you love Jesus you will show it. Primarily we love Jesus because we have
got to know Him and seen what He has done for us. So my friend do you love Jesus and His ways?
Can you answer this? Like do you love football or F1 or base ball? Is it so hard to declare your
love of Jesus Christ our Saviour and Lord?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Ephesians 1:13
Historically speaking a "seal" was a "mark" indicating a letter or scroll was closed or placed at the end to indicate it was completed or closed.
When a king or someone of high status wanted to place an identifying mark with a letter, he would seal it with a resin imprint of his ring.
It is also proof of authenticity of the author
The Holy Spirit likewise seals to indicate that believer belongs to the Lord once they have believed on the gospel of salvation
The seal is the signature of the Holy Spirit on our life at the moment of belief, so not really about being opened or closed

The seal of the Holy Spirit is difficult, because many groups claim they have the Holy Spirit,
are sealed, have experiences in the Spirit and His anointing yet are complete heretics caught
in sin. So though this sounds so robust an idea it is very subjective, as only the believer can
testify, yes I have Him.

And from your perspective if I declare I am sealed in the Holy Spirit, what is your response?
1. It is not the Holy Spirit but something else
2. It is a demon
3. You are mistaken
4. God is bigger and blesses in a wider way than you imagine

I go mainly with 4, God blesses unbelievably broadly because blessing is His nature, and He
bring justice and truth and can withdraw this blessing as and when needed. But ofcourse if
you hold His blessing is a one off eternal blessing then oppsss, a lot of people are demon
possessed, which is a big issue, and totally nuts.

 

[gb9]

Yep. Thanks, I hit a nerve didn’t I? This is how you always react peter. I was not being anything but asking a question.

1. You said I was wrong
2. You said I was wrong because of the reasons you posed
3. I asked you to prove it by asking the question.

Thats not pompus. Your the one being pompos by misdirecting the question to reflect better on you. And you want to keep this up this attack, feel free. It just exposes your true nature!



No, I never asked that question at all. As Mailmandan said, you are using a strawman to deflect.

You said I was wrong. And your response was used to prove I was wrong.

So in response, I was asking you to PROVE by your statment I was wrong.

As usual. You refuse to answer. Because you KNOW by answering you will prove me right (not that it matter, I could care less. But for the sake of others who MAY SEE you here, it is for their benefit To [rove you always do this.. You attack others. Then when confronted, you attack them to deflect

One more time. Those things you stated (that we ALL AGREE ARE THINGS WHICH MUST BE TRUE

Why do you think we need to do them.

Because YOU ARE SAVED

Or to KEEP YOURSELF FROM LOSING SALVATION?

(Ps. I know your answer. So does everyone else who knows you. We just want you for once in your life to admit it.)

Either way, You said I was wrong. That is what this quesiron was abut. Prove I am wrong. By answering the question.

come on, we know that peter does not answer questions , he just spouts off double-speak and psycho babble about his god ( his emotions).

who one bows down to and lets command him is there god.

he bows down to his emotions. that is his god.

that is why i have him on ignore.

i have had enough tours through his feelings , don't need anymore.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

1. You said I was wrong
2. You said I was wrong because of the reasons you posed
3. I asked you to prove it by asking the question.

Let me correct the three points
1. I said I did not agree with your point
2. I testified to my point of view
3. You are asking for proof of something I have not done

I am aware you desire to draw me into your world view, but that is pointless.
I stick with Jesus and His word.
I have clearly stated my objections to various theological projections I have come across
that I regard as heretical but people wish to follow.

And the point is these colour every other conversation making them irrelevant unless one
addresses the underlying moral viewpoints.

The deception is to express one idea, as if two people are saying the same thing.
I remember me sharing on taking Jesus's yoke upon us. You then proceeded to add words
and ideas that I did not share or have but you felt compelled to do it as if this was my meaning.
So thank you for engaging but I engage in a constructive manner, getting to the heart of our
differences. And being honest about differences is what it means to walk in the light.

1 Everything is evil unless done in the Spirit, makes trusting in someones sincerity or honesty impossible.
2 Believing slough is Gods way, any effort or desire to be righteous or holy is evil.
3 Hating individuals who one has labelled as false teachers or wolves is acceptable behaviour.
4 Abuse and being disparaging of such evil people is what they deserve.
5 Privilege is our gift from God, and having any doubts is satanic.
6 Satan uses scripture to cause condemnation, so any conviction feelings are not God even when from His word.
7 You only need to love your fellow believers.
8 Fear is evil, so fearing God is of satan, because God forgives us while we sin.
9 There is only one view of a passage, and they possess it.
10 A good teacher is essential, the Holy Spirit cannot be relied upon
11 The church is brainwashed to believe the creeds and statements of faith

Unfortunately this list must be real, because of the response and the attempts to deflect
from it. Praise the Lord for His light and His grace in our hearts, Amen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Seals can be broken. A seal is a statement of intent, no more.
Paul is saying the Holy Spirit in our hearts shows we are alive in Him.

I have heard of people who have lost this presence and do not know why.
That worries me, because I would be lost without Him in my heart, truly bereft.

So Paul is saying if we stay in the faith, the Holy Spirit will abide as His seal of the
promise given to His people till the day of resurrection.

Sadly there are many, many people who have found this seal has gone.
So in your teaching, everything falls apart, because the Holy Spirit should have
stayed in the apostate unbelieving sinner who has now left the faith.

But that is what you are teaching. Not a good theology and also a desecration of
the Holy Temple which God is happy with. Nope, never, in fact the opposite it true.

If the seal could be broken, paul would have told us. Not left us thinkinf this seal was until the day of redemption.

Of course paul did not lie. He knew and understood. This as was UNTIL that day,,

 

[FollowHisSteps]

come on, we know that peter does not answer questions , he just spouts off double-speak and psycho babble about his god ( his emotions).
who one bows down to and lets command him is there god.
he bows down to his emotions. that is his god.
that is why i have him on ignore.
i have had enough tours through his feelings , don't need anymore.

Hi gb9, Thank you for sharing. It is an interesting idea that my emotions are my god.
Can we live without emotional interaction with the Father and Jesus or have you got a
Spock like mind meld with the Father no one else has, and emotions do not register, lol.

You realise that most of the audience in the church is women, who are more honest about
their emotional life, and acutely aware of mood changes. But then this is a mystery to you,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is to EG too. 😉

I know that Strongs states the seal as the Kings stamp of approval, but I think there's more to this. I'm seeing this more as His Mark. Looking at other scriptures, we see that we are planted with the Word or the seed as shown in parables in our good ground of our heart. Mark means character. We are sealed or marked with the character of God who is Holy. Also called the Spirit of Christ, anointing, within us.

I used the word unified before in another post. This is our oneness with God through the new birth. Sealed, marked, one. The new man.

And all together, the one new man or His body both in heaven, and on earth. We are one now, but will be realized in our ressurected new body.

Make sense? What God starts...foreknew...He finishes...completion.

I think the fact that the literal interpretation means “a pledge” and the fact that this “pledge” is said to be good “until the day of redemption”. We need to look at it for what it is.

A pledge is a sort of downpayment, or promise that what ever is being given or promised will be carried out. It is Gods character we are discussing here, Will God keep his promise. Or will he break it.