A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

[RickyZ]

No, you are stuck like a broken record on unbelieving Jews. Tongues wasn't only a sign to unbelieving Jews. It was in one instance but not every instance.

Bingo! We can't just latch onto one scripture and say that is the only authority on a subject. We have to take in the BIG PICTURE. Which sadly, given the polarization of people these days, doesn't happen much any more.

 

[RickyZ]

If I am reading this correctly. This is how I believe tongues is used today. It served a purpose to lead a man to christ.

YES! That is one way we test the spirits! If the glory does not go up the 'food chain' to Christ, it is false!!!

 

[RickyZ]

It is things like this that I feel god shared with me a few years ago that stopped me from being a cessationalist. I felt him telling me, Listen son, If I need to use this gift, why would I not do it? Why would you hinder me from using all the resources I have to bring people to myself?

God has been working on my pride for quite a few years.. Its been a blessing but at same time, I wish sometimes he would stop!! He keeps proving to me I am not as smart as I thought I was

Me too lol!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So then has the snake verse been put out of service? Did that too cease?

And yes, claiming EVERYONE has to speak in a tongue is Biblically false.

The verse said EVERYONE will have that sign

It does not say SOME OF THEM WILL. It says THESE SIGNS WILL ACCOMPANY THEM.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not sure who is making it worse... I would say your artful dodger act is doing that.

OK. The Bible clearly says that anyone who attributes the work of the Holy Spirit to satan has committed blaspheme that cannot be forgiven.

So a Christian, under the power of the Holy Spirit, speaks in a genuine authentic tongue.

Another person hears that and says, since tongues have ceased they must have spoken from a demon.

Is that NOT right out of Mark 3 et al?

I'm sorry dude, but making 2+2 equal anything other than 4 is a lie and a dodge.

Yeah whatever

My bible says he who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.

It does not say he who believes, het thinks Sally spoke in a tongue by some demon, is condemned already

And PS. You had been saying whoever believes ALL tongues,, Not individuals. Did you change your tone?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I often wonder if the speakers in Acts 2 were speaking in the listeners language, or if the listeners were acting under the Holy Spirit as their own interpreters..?

Hey we agree on something, (i thought this too) But then again, it does say they SPOKE in tongues. Not that they INTERPRETED what was being spoke in hebrew or greek or aramaic or whatever language they spoke, in their own language.

 

[RickyZ]

The verse said EVERYONE will have that sign

It does not say SOME OF THEM WILL. It says THESE SIGNS WILL ACCOMPANY THEM.

Yes but does each and every sign accompany each and every person? Or are they doled out according need and calling? God says they are like parts of the body. Not everyone will be a hand, not everyone will be a foot. But all believers will be assign a PART in the body to play. What about the verse that says not everyone will speak in tongues?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

YES! That is one way we test the spirits! If the glory does not go up the 'food chain' to Christ, it is false!!!

Well, We was able to TEST the spirit, because the person KNEW what she was saying, it was not some unknown babble that no one understood.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes but does each and every sign accompany each and every person?

I can just go off by what the passage says, Not what people think it says, Is this not how we should interpret scripture?

Does it say some will have them, some may not? Or does it say these signs MAY follow all who believe?

Not. It says THESE (All Inclusive) signs WILL follow

Or are they doled out according need and calling? God says they are like parts of the body. Not everyone will be a hand, not everyone will be a foot. But all believers will be assign a PART in the body to play. What about the verse that says not everyone will speak in tongues?

We are talking about what a particular verse says, Not what someone may think it says..

 

[RickyZ]

Yeah whatever

My bible says he who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.

It does not say he who believes, het thinks Sally spoke in a tongue by some demon, is condemned already

And PS. You had been saying whoever believes ALL tongues,, Not individuals. Did you change your tone?

Don't follow your last line. All tongues are spoken by individuals.

And what the Bible says about blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is extremely clear - and I don't recall ever reading of any exceptions. Yes that is a harsh judgment to call down upon claimed believers, but if you quack like a duck I'm going to have to say you must be a duck.

 

[RickyZ]

Well, We was able to TEST the spirit, because the person KNEW what she was saying, it was not some unknown babble that no one understood.

But since private tongues are between you and God, no one will understand them but God. That is why they are to be kept out of an assembly.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Mark 16: And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name

What does this say

1. These signs. (And it names them off) it does not say SOME of these signs, So they must be ALL inclusive)
2. It says WILL FOLLOW. (It does not say may follow. Or that some will get these signs, some may not.. or these signs will be diversly distributed) so again, All inclusive
3. It says THOSE WHO BELIEVE, again, it does not say SOME of those who believe, or MANY of those who believe, it is ALL INCLUSIVE.

There is no other way to interpret this passage than to say ALL of these signs WILL follow ALL who believe

If this does not happen. The passage is either a lie (thus jesus is a liar) or it is a false passage and is NOT what Jesus said

I chose the second, thus Jesus is not proven a liar.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't follow your last line. All tongues are spoken by individuals.

And what the Bible says about blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is extremely clear - and I don't recall ever reading of any exceptions. Yes that is a harsh judgment to call down upon claimed believers, but if you quack like a duck I'm going to have to say you must be a duck.

Your right it does say it

SO what is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
He who does not believe is condemned already

Thats the ONLY unpardonable sin my friend.

Me not believing you spoke from God or that you spoke from a demon has no bearing on my eternal life

And AGAIN, Your NOT jesus, the HS is not tryign to PROMOTE you. Or to PROVE to the word YOU are the messiah

So this verse does not apply to you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh and by the way, As I said earlier. You just condemned true believers to hell. Because they do not believe ALL who speak in some tongue is speaking from the HS. Way to go.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But since private tongues are between you and God, no one will understand them but God. That is why they are to be kept out of an assembly.

Then there is no way to test if it is from God or not.

So you better shy away from it, Because if their is no way to test which spirit is talking, It most likely is not from God. Because God DEMANDED we test all spirit. He would tell us to do that if it were not possible.

 

[RickyZ]

I can just go off by what the passage says, Not what people think it says, Is this not how we should interpret scripture?

Does it say some will have them, some may not? Or does it say these signs MAY follow all who believe?

Not. It says THESE (All Inclusive) signs WILL follow



We are talking about what a particular verse says, Not what someone may think it says..

1 Cor 12:
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in various tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, who apportions them to each one as He determines.
The Body of Christ
12The body is a unit, though it is comprised of many parts. And although its parts are many, they all form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink.
14For the body does not consist of one part, but of many. 15If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?
18But in fact, God has arranged the members of the body, every one of them, according to His design. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21The eye cannot say to the hand, “I do not need you.” Nor can the head say to the feet, “I do not need you.” 22On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts we consider less honorable, we treat with greater honor. And our unpresentable parts are treated with special modesty, 24whereas our presentable parts have no such need.
But God has composed the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it,25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its members should have mutual concern for one another. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

*

If 100 people come to Christ, they all will receive something. Some the gift of healing, some will get wisdom, some will receive tongues. These signs will follow those who believe - and in this group of 100 they all do. But they don't all act in the SAME gift.

This is the problem we end up with when we try to judge one verse without looking at the whole picture.

If scripture says these signs will follow ALL who believe - then we also have to take into account the follow up scripture that says they won't all act in the SAME gift.

 

[RickyZ]

Oh and by the way, As I said earlier. You just condemned true believers to hell. Because they do not believe ALL who speak in some tongue is speaking from the HS. Way to go.

Again, I don't condemn anyone. I'm just saying what scripture says. And there are some here who DO say ALL tongues are demonic. You know that, don't try to deny it. I don't want fellow believers to be condemned. But dang it, when they do what the Bible VERY CLEARLY SAY IS WRONG, then they have to be held accountable for that. Or you might as well just throw it all away.

 

[RickyZ]

Then there is no way to test if it is from God or not.

So you better shy away from it, Because if their is no way to test which spirit is talking, It most likely is not from God. Because God DEMANDED we test all spirit. He would tell us to do that if it were not possible.

Who says there is no way to test it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, I don't condemn anyone. I'm just saying what scripture says. And there are some here who DO say ALL tongues are demonic. You know that, don't try to deny it. I don't want fellow believers to be condemned. But dang it, when they do what the Bible VERY CLEARLY SAY IS WRONG, then they have to be held accountable for that. Or you might as well just throw it all away.

Well, If they are wrong, they will find that out when they get to heaven, But if they BELIEVE in the true gospel. They will go to heaven.

Sadly. Many here believe in a false gospel. And if they are totally 100 % on with speaking in tongues, they will still end up in hell.

Why?

He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe (a different gospel) is condemned already.

The bible does not say what you claim, You are grossly misinterpreting what was said.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 Cor 12:
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in various tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, who apportions them to each one as He determines.
The Body of Christ
12The body is a unit, though it is comprised of many parts. And although its parts are many, they all form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink.
14For the body does not consist of one part, but of many. 15If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?
18But in fact, God has arranged the members of the body, every one of them, according to His design. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21The eye cannot say to the hand, “I do not need you.” Nor can the head say to the feet, “I do not need you.” 22On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts we consider less honorable, we treat with greater honor. And our unpresentable parts are treated with special modesty, 24whereas our presentable parts have no such need.
But God has composed the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it,25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its members should have mutual concern for one another. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

*

If 100 people come to Christ, they all will receive something. Some the gift of healing, some will get wisdom, some will receive tongues. These signs will follow those who believe - and in this group of 100 they all do. But they don't all act in the SAME gift.

This is the problem we end up with when we try to judge one verse without looking at the whole picture.

If scripture says these signs will follow ALL who believe - then we also have to take into account the follow up scripture that says they won't all act in the SAME gift.

1 cor 12 does not have anythign to do with Mark 16

Your making mark 16 say somethign it does not say

Read the passage and take what it says, don’t twist it to make it say something it does not say only because you think it destroys your belief system.

1 cor 12 is gifts of the spirit. Given to complete the body of Christ. Not the SIGNS of ALL (not some) who jesus SUPPOSEDLY claim in Mark 16 will (not may) have.