Speaking in Tongues: Its Origins [Ancient and Modern], Purpose, and Power

[wolfwint]

I am not avoiding your comment about the Samaritans I addressed that in my post #108 to you as follows:
"I understand that the Word does not literally state those present spoke in tongues. But, it is implied. Because the record indicates that Simon saw something. If there is no outward evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost than there would be nothing to see.
Again, it is plausible that what he saw was people speaking in tongues."

Afterward, I posted scriptures that show Christians were encouraged to pray in the Spirit. (speak in tongues)

We know that praying in the Spirit is praying in an unknown tongue because the Apostle Paul make this clear in 1 Cor 14:14 and then goes on to explain that he prays in tongues that he does not understand and also prays with understanding as well:

"For if I (Paul) pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." 1 Cor 14:14-15

Well, first i can say, i can pray in the spirit without speaking in tongues. Alone in my thoughts i also can pray in the spirit.
2nd: in acts all who mentioned speaking in tongues would understood from the people around.

I am not avoiding your comment about the Samaritans I addressed that in my post #108 to you as follows:
"I understand that the Word does not literally state those present spoke in tongues. But, it is implied. Because the record indicates that Simon saw something. If there is no outward evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost than there would be nothing to see.
Again, it is plausible that what he saw was people speaking in tongues."

Afterward, I posted scriptures that show Christians were encouraged to pray in the Spirit. (speak in tongues)

We know that praying in the Spirit is praying in an unknown tongue because the Apostle Paul make this clear in 1 Cor 14:14 and then goes on to explain that he prays in tongues that he does not understand and also prays with understanding as well:

"For if I (Paul) pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." 1 Cor 14:14-15

Concerning acts 8, its an assumption.
You can be right, but you can also be wrong maby they prophecie? Without speaking in tongues.
We are not able to find it out. It was not written down.
And what we do with the athiopian eunuch, this man was happy without getting the Holy Spirit?

 

[Wansvic]

Well, first i can say, i can pray in the spirit without speaking in tongues. Alone in my thoughts i also can pray in the spirit.
2nd: in acts all who mentioned speaking in tongues would understood from the people around.

Concerning acts 8, its an assumption.
You can be right, but you can also be wrong maby they prophecie? Without speaking in tongues.
We are not able to find it out. It was not written down.
And what we do with the athiopian eunuch, this man was happy without getting the Holy Spirit?

Paul expressed that he prayed and sang with his own understanding as well as without understanding. (1 Cor 14:14-15)
As to the eunuch, one cannot say the eunuch did not receive the Holy Ghost. All we know is that there was no mention of it in the encounter recorded. We know from scripture that water and Holy Ghost baptisms can happen at different times. (Acts 8:14-18)

 

[wolfwint]

Paul expressed that he prayed and sang with his own understanding as well as without understanding. (1 Cor 14:14-15)
As to the eunuch, one cannot say the eunuch did not receive the Holy Ghost. All we know is that there was no mention of it in the encounter recorded. We know from scripture that water and Holy Ghost baptisms can happen at different times. (Acts 8:14-18)

We are not Paul!
And knowhere it is sayd that speaking in tongues and pray in the Spirit is the same.

Yes, water baptism and getting the Holy Spirit can be at different times.

But when you are born again?
When you get the Holy Spirit, are water baptised ore when you speak in tongues?

 

[Agbarogi]

Speaking in tongue is real and interpretation is real. Without the holy spirit there is no church. It is the holy spirit that is the Power of Christians and the power of the church. The holyspirit is our comfort without d holyspirit we have powerless Christians. It is the Holy spirit that makes the difference in us.

 

[Wansvic]

We are not Paul!

Paul was a human being. No more or no less than any other human being who has ever lived. God used Paul for a specific ministry as He did all others as recorded in biblical history. We, too, are to play our part in God's overall plan.

 

[Wansvic]

And knowhere it is sayd that speaking in tongues and pray in the Spirit is the same.

The Word is clear that speaking in an unknown tongue is speaking with God. Normally when one speaks to God it is considered praying:

"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor 14:2

 

[Wansvic]

But when you are born again?
When you get the Holy Spirit, are water baptised ore when you speak in tongues?

According to Peter everyone present, and their children, and those in the future were to follow the instructions given on the Day of Pentecost; repent, and everyone be water baptized in the name of the Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost as they did in the upper room. (Acts 2:38-39) Although Peter was speaking to the Jewish population his message was given and received by the Gentiles as well in Acts 10:44-48 when he was sent by God to instruct Cornelius on what to do to be saved.

"And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

Who shall tell thee WORDS, whereby thou and all thy house SHALL BE SAVED.

And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost." Acts 11:13-16

 

[wolfwint]

Paul was a human being. No more or no less than any other human being who has ever lived. God used Paul for a specific ministry as He did all others as recorded in biblical history. We, too, are to play our part in God's overall plan.

Right, he had a special mission and was giftet with special gifts for this mission. So nobody today has the same mission and the same gifts which Paul had.

I said we are not Paul, and nowhere is sayed that praying in tongues and praying in the spirit is the same.

you used Paul as example for praying and singing with his own understanding and without understanding.
Where is this praying in the Spirit?
This is praying in tongues.

 

[MadHermit]

REPLY TO OBJECTION #3: TONGUES ARE A SIGN OF JUDGMENT AGAINST THE JEWS IN 1 CORINTHIANS 14:21-22 (citing Isaiah 28:11-12)But

But the church of Corinth is a Gentile church , not a Jewish church; and Paul construes the foreign languages in Isaiah as a "sign against" unbelievers in general: "So tongues are a sign for unbelievers, not for believers, But prophecy is a sign for believers (14:22)."
As C. K Barrett rightly notes in his commentary on 1 Corinthians: "His point (in 14:21-22) is simply that (according to the Lord himself) when he speaks to men by means of strange tongues they will not listen--that is, they will not hear in obedience and faith (p. 323)."
And Hans Conzelmann adds in his Commenary on 1 Corinthians: "And prophecy has an effect [as a "sign" in another sense] also on unbelievers (14:24)...Naturally, speaking in tongues is a sign also for believers, though not of course in the sense that it is unintelligible to them as a process. They know it is a working of the Spirit; what is unintelligible to them is its content (p. 242)."

So 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 in no way challenges the ongoing legitimacy of speaking in tongues for the modern church: "These signs shall follow those who believe...They will speak with new tongues (Mark 16:17)."

 

[MadHermit]

Post #50 provides 3 examples of modern languages being verifiably spoken in tongues by speakers who did not know the language they were uttering. In these 3 cases, the languages were an Amazon Indian dialect, Swahili, and modern Hebrew. A New York Times reporter documents how the Hebrew case ultimate led to the conversion of millions of Chinese into Charismatic believers. But since I created post #50, one of our prayer group members (Rick, a non-Charismatic!) reported yet another case, this time in fluent Japanese. Rick's female friend was privately praying in tongues when a Japanese lady overheard her and informed her that she was praying in fluent Japanese, a language she had never learned!

 

[UnderGrace]

Post #50 provides 3 examples of modern languages being verifiably spoken in tongues by speakers who did not know the language they were uttering. In these 3 cases, the languages were an Amazon Indian dialect, Swahili, and modern Hebrew. A New York Times reporter documents how the Hebrew case ultimate led to the conversion of millions of Chinese into Charismatic believers. But since I created post #50, one of our prayer group members (Rick, a non-Charismatic!) reported yet another case, this time in fluent Japanese. Rick's female friend was privately praying in tongues when a Japanese lady overheard her and informed her that she was praying in fluent Japanese, a language she had never learned!

Why would a person pray in a language they do not know?

 

[MadHermit]

REPLY TO OBJECTION #4: THE GIFT OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS NO LONGER IMPARTED TODAY.

It is as intrinsically absurd to claim that the gifts of the Spirit are irrelevant today as it is to claim that Christ's atoning sacrifice was made obsolete by the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple and the resulting end of the Jewish system of sacrifice. Indeed, quoting Peter, Luke stresses the fact that the Holy Spirit and His gifts are essential to the life of the believer for all time:

"Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is for you, your children, and for all who are far off--as many as the Lord our God invites (Acts 2:38-39)."

It is important to recognize that Luke never mentions the Spirit's redemptive work of regeneration. Thus, Luke has Paul ask the Ephesian "disciples" if they even received the Holy Spirit when they believed; and when they subsequently do receive the Spirit, the evidence for this is speaking in tongues and prophesying:

"Paul...came to Ephesus, where he found some disciples. He asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when youcame to believe?" they replied, "We have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit..." When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they began to speak in tongues and prophesy (Acts 19:1-2, 6)."

So for Luke, the promise of the gift of the Spirit for all future generations includes speaking in tongues! In 3 of the 4 times people receive the Holy Spirit in Acts, they demonstrate this by speaking in tongues (2:1-18; 10:44-47; 19:1-6). In the 4th case, tongues are not mentioned, but the experience of receiving the Spirit is so dramatic that Simon the Magician offers money to learn the secret of channeling such power (8:19-20). so it is reasonable to believe that these Samaritan converts also spoke in tongues when they received their Spirit baptism. This well established pattern does not mean that Spirit baptism requires speaking in tongues (see 1 Corinthians 12:13); but it is further evidence that the gift of tongues should be diligently sought (12:31: 14:1).

REPLY TO OBJECTION #5: WE HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO STRIVE FOR THE GIFT OF TONGUES.

This objection can be summarily dispatched on 3 grounds:
(1) Paul commands us to "pray in the Spirit" (Ephesians 6:18) and speaking in tongues is identified as an important way to pray this way (1 Corinthians 14:15).
(2) In both cases where Paul commands us to strive for spiritual gifts (12:31; 14:1) he immediately continues with a discussion of speaking in tongues and prophesying. True, he notes that not everyone speaks in tongues (12:28), but he doesn't mean that God never intended everyone to do so. Instead, what he means is that many in fact have either not sought the gift or tongues or have not yet succeeded in exercising this gift.
(3) Paul commands us to "strive for spiritual gifts (14:1)," clarifying this command with his desire for all of us to speak in tongues (14:5) and his expression of gratitude that he speaks in tongues more than any of the Corinthians (14:18.). Crucially, Paul repeatedly commands us to imitate his spirituality (1 Cor 4:16; 11:1; Phil 3:17) and makes it clear that such imitation includes a demonstration of the Spirit and of power (4:29-20; cp. 2:4-5).

Evangelicals who try to trivialize tongues by pointing the cases of fleshly excess or by claiming that tongues is the least of the spiritual gifts are in danger of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. I say this for 3 reasons: First, such Evangelicals need to recognize that God's precious gifts are routinely counterfeited.
Second, modern academic Bible commentators recognize that tongues is listed last in 12:10 because of the abuse of uninterpreted tongues during corporate worship. In fact, tongues is equal to the greatest gift, prophecy, if the glossolalia is interpreted (14:4).
Third, Paul teaches that the tongues speaker "edifies himself" (14:4) and it is blasphemous to imply that what the Holy Spirit offers is jibberish crap!

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

 

[garee]

REPLY TO OBJECTION #4: THE GIFT OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS NO LONGER IMPARTED TODAY.

It is as intrinsically absurd to claim that the gifts of the Spirit are irrelevant today as it is to claim that Christ's atoning sacrifice was made obsolete by the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple and the resulting end of the Jewish system of sacrifice. Indeed, quoting Peter, Luke stresses the fact that the Holy Spirit and His gifts are essential to the life of the believer for all time:

"Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is for you, your children, and for all who are far off--as many as the Lord our God invites (Acts 2:38-39)."

It is important to recognize that Luke never mentions the Spirit's redemptive work of regeneration. Thus, Luke has Paul ask the Ephesian "disciples" if they even received the Holy Spirit when they believed; and when they subsequently do receive the Spirit, the evidence for this is speaking in tongues and prophesying:

"Paul...came to Ephesus, where he found some disciples. He asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when youcame to believe?" they replied, "We have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit..." When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they began to speak in tongues and prophesy (Acts 19:1-2, 6)."

So for Luke, the promise of the gift of the Spirit for all future generations includes speaking in tongues! In 3 of the 4 times people receive the Holy Spirit in Acts, they demonstrate this by speaking in tongues (2:1-18; 10:44-47; 19:1-6). In the 4th case, tongues are not mentioned, but the experience of receiving the Spirit is so dramatic that Simon the Magician offers money to learn the secret of channeling such power (8:19-20). so it is reasonable to believe that these Samaritan converts also spoke in tongues when they received their Spirit baptism. This well established pattern does not mean that Spirit baptism requires speaking in tongues (see 1 Corinthians 12:13); but it is further evidence that the gift of tongues should be diligently sought (12:31: 14:1).

REPLY TO OBJECTION #5: WE HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO STRIVE FOR THE GIFT OF TONGUES.

This objection can be summarily dispatched on 3 grounds:
(1) Paul commands us to "pray in the Spirit" (Ephesians 6:18) and speaking in tongues is identified as an important way to pray this way (1 Corinthians 14:15).
(2) In both cases where Paul commands us to strive for spiritual gifts (12:31; 14:1) he immediately continues with a discussion of speaking in tongues and prophesying. True, he notes that not everyone speaks in tongues (12:28), but he doesn't mean that God never intended everyone to do so. Instead, what he means is that many in fact have either not sought the gift or tongues or have not yet succeeded in exercising this gift.
(3) Paul commands us to "strive for spiritual gifts (14:1)," clarifying this command with his desire for all of us to speak in tongues (14:5) and his expression of gratitude that he speaks in tongues more than any of the Corinthians (14:18.). Crucially, Paul repeatedly commands us to imitate his spirituality (1 Cor 4:16; 11:1; Phil 3:17) and makes it clear that such imitation includes a demonstration of the Spirit and of power (4:29-20; cp. 2:4-5).

Evangelicals who try to trivialize tongues by pointing the cases of fleshly excess or by claiming that tongues is the least of the spiritual gifts are in danger of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. I say this for 3 reasons: First, such Evangelicals need to recognize that God's precious gifts are routinely counterfeited.
Second, modern academic Bible commentators recognize that tongues is listed last in 12:10 because of the abuse of uninterpreted tongues during corporate worship. In fact, tongues is equal to the greatest gift, prophecy, if the glossolalia is interpreted (14:4).
Third, Paul teaches that the tongues speaker "edifies himself" (14:4) and it is blasphemous to imply that what the Holy Spirit offers is jibberish crap!

​

​

Tongues is not a new testament principle, its a law found in Isiah.

Tongues, God bringing the incorruptible seed of His word in other languages other than Hebrews alone is a sign that confirms unbelief to those outside of Christ.

The incorruptible seed by which all men are born again from above is greatest gift. Greatest as in first and foremost , our first love or experience believing God not seen, believing God the foundation of other spiritual (not seen) not sign gifts (seen) ,.


These same faithless people (natural unconverted mankind) today refuse to beleive the reformation has come .They show their unbelief by dying the whole new testament mocking God with their oral traditions of men.. Yet for all that they still refuse to believe in a God not seen. but seek after a sign to confirm the path. Just have a experience become the light of the path.

If tongues is prophecy from God why would the speaker edify his own self or other men? false pride? Corporate pride?

Tongues established in Isaiah 28 as the foundation of the doctrine is defined as God brining his interpretation as two walking together and not a second hand private interpretation of sinful man . Three I beleive is a crowd when it comes to walking with Christ.

We are warned of those who have the spirit of the antichrists .men who insists they must give you the understanding that comes from seeking after the approval of the promised Holy Spirit. Why would he send us to another person to interpret what he alone can, His own thoughts in the matter as a loving Father.

According to my bias at least today on that idea alone I would think a person might want to seek the understanding as to just what does the sign confirm? Does it confirm that we should avoid the warning as the antichrists that were there as to their motive of operation and put our trust in another man seen . How could that be walking by faith? it would seem to destroy faith between God not seen and man seen.

The exact cause in the garden of Eden .Instant gratification. "look and believe". As in Mathew 4 .I will give you all the kingdoms and all the glory... beleive bow down . Jesus said again and again as it is written. Not go find someone to tell you what I said. (Jim Jones Peoples Temple dangerous or Pope dangerous )

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John2:26-27

I would be careful on how we hear what the Spirit is saying..... many antichrists out there. Claiming I will interpret as a source of faith.
I will ascend to the clouds . The I will god... not the I AmM

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.



We can share our bread as our own private interpretations of what we think the Holy Spirt is giving us ears to hear, but are not the source of its strength... the incorruptible seed, Christ, if we any strength its yoked with him. . not from self edification or edifying other seen.

 

[garee]

Why would a person pray in a language they do not know?

To edify a unknown?

 

[UnderGrace]

To edify a unknown?

Good answer.... LOL

 

[Wansvic]

Why would a person pray in a language they do not know?

The following scripture concerns praying to God through the use of one's spirit. Notice Jesus stated in John that those who worship God must worship Him in spirit and in truth:

"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor 14:2

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:23-24

 

[Wansvic]

Right, he had a special mission and was giftet with special gifts for this mission. So nobody today has the same mission and the same gifts which Paul had.

I said we are not Paul, and nowhere is sayed that praying in tongues and praying in the spirit is the same.

you used Paul as example for praying and singing with his own understanding and without understanding.
Where is this praying in the Spirit?
This is praying in tongues.

The apostles clearly spoke in tongues upon receiving the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. This is a pretty good indicator that praying/speaking in tongues is done via the Spirit. One must speak to oneself or aloud in order to be in prayer.

Why would Paul bother to take the time to inform/educate Christians about the specifics of Spiritual Gifts if they would not be used in ministry?

 

[UnderGrace]

The following scripture concerns praying to God through the use of one's spirit. Notice Jesus stated in John that those who worship God must worship Him in spirit and in truth:

"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor 14:2

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:23-24

"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor 14:2

yes...this is exactly it.....

When someone speaks in a "foreign language" he is not speaking to the people around him because they do not understand him, what is he stating is a mystery...why because it is a foreign language.

 

[Wansvic]

yes...this is exactly it.....

When someone speaks in a "foreign language" he is not speaking to the people around him because they do not understand him, what is he stating is a mystery...why because it is a foreign language.

Keep in mind that scripture indicates there are two types of tongues:
1. Tongues upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost. After the baptism of the Holy Ghost individuals pray in their unknown tongue to God via the spirit. The human spirit is edified by God's Spirit.
2. Spiritual Gift of Tongues - used along with the Gift of Interpretation for the edification of the church body.

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24

I believe that most confusion arises due to the misconception that there is only one type of tongues operating in the church today.

 

[UnderGrace]

Keep in mind that scripture indicates there are two types of tongues:
1. Tongues upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost. After the baptism of the Holy Ghost individuals pray in their unknown tongue to God via the spirit. The human spirit is edified by God's Spirit.
2. Spiritual Gift of Tongues - used along with the Gift of Interpretation for the edification of the church body.

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24

I believe that most confusion arises due to the misconception that there is only one type of tongues operating in the church today.

1. Tongues upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost. After the baptism of the Holy Ghost individuals pray in their unknown tongue to God via the spirit. The human spirit is edified by God's Spirit.

The "unknown language" in scripture is a reference to a foreign language, the church of Corinth, being a commercial hub of the ancient world, had a variety of languages being spoken.