Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

i sincerely ask dear friend, can you show me the difference? i have never heard of soul life salvation.

Sin damages the soul (mind) and the body too

When we are released from the bondage of sin we are also saving our souls in that we are not damaging ourselves.

This is also supported by research, brain scans have proven that behaviour actual changes the structure of our brains.

The salvation of our souls comes as we learn to live in the sanctified place (abiding) we will have a healthier mind, will and emotions.

Those that preach that salvation can be lost often misinterpret these verses.

The certain hope of our future salvation is an anchor to steady our souls while we wait on God in present storms.
Hebrews 6:13

 

[Argueless]

Again never implied that it was.....so your point is moot.......and just because he states BE YE....does not mean that believers will automatically be that.......and too be frank....You are not honest with scripture in implying everything is automatic when it comes to Christian maturity, growth, transformation of the mind and or the additions to our faith that Peter implores us to add......

Why ADD something to FAITH that ALONE saves? Are you now deviating from your firm and irrefutable stance?

Well.....ESV is OK....Grammatically speaking I like the NASV.....but to be honest....regardless of translation I will always go to the Greek or Hebrew to get a more complete understanding of the word/verbiage.....there are nuances/verb tenses found in both the Hebrew and Greek that does not come across in the English translations.....

...Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1 Corinthians 1:20

You are a liar then....I never implied evolution in any form or fashion.....Like I said...NO honesty or integrity......your witness is not looking too good pal

This person loves to call those who disagree with his FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES as liars with no honesty or integrity but he himself could not be honest with himself regarding his stance on LIEING TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

...For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

...But the COWARDLY, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

 

[Macabeus]

===================================================================
Mac,
thank you for your apology - humble is always a huge PLUS with us, along with good manners - MIC. 6:8.)))
but just remember, when someone expresses their heart-felt feelings,
we must accept them because it's really a matter of respect for the way that they have digested/feel
about what we say -

I agree..and I accepted what you said. Like I said, I use caps for emphasis.

AND if you are refering to DC and the others.. I am taking special exception to DC's comment because I was called names for disagreeing with him. (fruit inspector, legalist, scripture twister) by numerous people. And I did not disagree with the fact that it may be the case with some, I disagreed with the way it was stated as if it was a universal truth that applies to all believers.

Seconly, in calling me all of those names, they come off like his statement an essential doctrine. That is why I am so adamant.

hub is my 'husband' from The Lord, and often when we post, we are collaborating as 'one'...

I thought so. Bless you both.

 

[Macabeus]

AMEN..........All delusions.......

a. I don't sin
b. I am so righteous I help maintain salvation
c. I can lose salvation by what I do or don't do
d. I must help JESUS keep me saved
e. I bear fruit instantly
f. I need numerous things like works, immersion, speaking in some mumbo jumbo to be saved

etc.....The list of the religionists and Cainologists is LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONGGGGGGGGG and false too boot!!

I am not going to question you on all of these, but who said bullet point e? I hope you're not inferring that I said that, because that would be a GROSS MISREPRESENTATION of what I said. I do not apply a statement universally to everyone like you did

 

[Macabeus]

Disregard last post.

I am not going to question you on all of these, but who said bullet point "e"?

If you think I said that, you must think maturity happens almost instantly. Because what I said is that I disagree with the statement "it takes a period of growth and maturity to bear ANYTHING. Christian maturity takes years. Fruit bearing, NOT NECESSARILY. See, the word "necesssarily? That is an important thing to notice, because the biggest issue is that you made this a UNIVERSALLY NECESSARY CONDITION. "it takes a period of growth and maturity to bear anything is stating a necessary condition.

If you had said "it MAY take a period of growth and maturity..."(contingent possibility) I would have had no issue with your statement, though it would be a shame to be a Christian for any length of time without bearing ANY fruit.

 

[Macabeus]

The two conditions for bearing

So your sinless??

Then why do people have to repent after they are saved if they are sinless??

Where did he say he was sinless?

 

[Macabeus]

Is meatball still going on about that......geesh..........just like the new sinless perfectionist......both of them re like gnats......buzzing round......

Calling people names is a mark of immaturity. So does that mean you're not bearing any fruit?

And quoting me as saying "one MUST immediately start producing fruit, until they do, they are not saved." is a HORRIBLE misrepresentation of what I said. I never said one must bear fruit instantly. That is why NO ONE can provide a post where I said anything like that. I challenge you to try. SO you can see that you have not been reading carefully.

 

[Macabeus]

yeah, and every since this was said , you have been obsessed with shouting that one MUST immediately start producing fruit, until they do, they are not saved.

that stance, when there is no time frame laid out in Scripture ( actually, it says BEAR fruit, which happens when seed sprouts , breaks ground, grows, blooms , blooms turn into small fruit, fruit grows and bears ),
anyway, that stance makes you a judgemental fruit inspector, whether or not you embrace it.

BTW, GB9, just so you know, I never said anything close to "one MUST immediately start producing fruit, until they do, they are not saved." If you think I said that, I could understand why you reacted the way you did. But I did not say that at all. You BADLY misunderstood my posts.

 

[Macabeus]

Hmmmm…. I may have determined the primary flaw in your dissertation:

You have used the term "we" 19 times in you post!

Wrong focus my friend, wrong focus.

John uses the word "we" 44 times in his first epistle. So what's your point? Did he have the wrong focus too?

Oh, and btw, everything i posted was SCRIPTURE.

 

[Macabeus]

I think you are going overboard here Mac.

I asked in regards to an unconfessed sin, John IMO is speaking to a life of sin and being in darkness. To say that some unconfessed sin is walking in darkness is something totally different.

Bringing in a third party, Barnes notes:

And walk in darkness - Live in sin and error. To "walk in darkness" now commonly denotes to be in doubt about our religious state, in contradistinction from living in the enjoyment of religion. That is not, however, probably the whole idea here. The leading thought is, that if we live in sin, it is a proof that our profession of religion is false



I don't think this is relevant to the discussion.

Read the verse in full context. Failure to confess sin is part of walking in darkness.

 

[Macabeus]

Salvation is the free gift of mercy and shows just how much God loves us all. Obedience is the way to walk with, talk with, grow in maturity with God. Works (good) comes forth as we grow in the knowledge and love of our Lord.

Yes, growth, obedience and works are progressive and concurrent.

 

[Macabeus]

So people obviously don't read what they're replying to, this place is really just a playground where too many use the Bible as a toy and call each other names. It's very sad.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Sin damages the soul (mind) and the body too
When we are released from the bondage of sin we are also saving our souls in that we are not damaging ourselves.
This is also supported by research, brain scans have proven that behaviour actual changes the structure of our brains.
The salvation of our souls comes as we learn to live in the sanctified place (abiding) we will have a healthier mind, will and emotions.
Those that preach that salvation can be lost often misinterpret these verses.
The certain hope of our future salvation is an anchor to steady our souls while we wait on God in present storms.
Hebrews 6:13

Hi UG,

I agree with your observation our behaviour changes the structure of our brains.
Our goal is to be like Jesus, to become like Him, which is reflected by who we become physically as well
as spiritually. But this only works because we abide in Him, sow to the Spirit and not to the flesh.

So as Paul says, what matters is what we sow to, because we inherit eternal life or death.
Our eternal destination is dependent on what we do, not just what we believe.

This supports our salvation is not founded on faith alone. God bless you.

8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction;
the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
Gal 6

 

[FollowHisSteps]

BTW, GB9, just so you know, I never said anything close to "one MUST immediately start producing fruit, until they do, they are not saved." If you think I said that, I could understand why you reacted the way you did. But I did not say that at all. You BADLY misunderstood my posts.

9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:8

A confession from the mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believing it in one heart, is the fruit of faith,
it is the beginning of salvation, eternal life, the walk with the Lord. So there is instantaneous
fruit, and without this there is no spiritual life.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

It is interesting in our theology we have thought of good works, as actions helping others, as
reaching out and talking with others, which comes with time, and is not something that is an
immediate change on coming to faith.

I think this thinking leads to the idea of fruitless believers are believers.
But if you acknowledge faith only becomes real when a thought or conviction is acted on,
spoken out, results in a tangible response other than listening and thinking, it is an important
spiritual reality.

The lie that people hold on to is God knows the heart, and believers exist even though nothing
in their lives shows it the heart does. But these same people do not believe God cleanses the
heart, so these believers have uncleansed polluted hearts. Worse still the faith they claim to
have does not create a confession from their lips.

9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised
him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:8

So salvation does result in instant fruit, because salvation does not exist until there is this
confession.

This demonstrates how those who hold is security above anything do not know the Lord,
which is why they have so much animosity, and hatred, name calling, condemnation and
legalistic law keeping.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

A process of growth and maturity SUBJECT to successes and or failures....the level of teaching, the kind of teaching, if they get MEAT or just MILK, truth, or watered down conflated false gospels.........and regardless.....NO ONE is ever completely sinless........because we are still BOUND in fallen bodies of SIN that are NOT subject to the word of GOD neither indeed can be......!!

Here is the sin and judgementalism.
Is anyone sinless, or is it impossible to attain to walking like Jesus?

The answer is only God knows and He is not going to tell anyone.
He calls us to the way, tests our hearts and direction and encourages us to grow more.

John says this about the presumption of sinlessness

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1

We cannot claim to be without sin, only God can say this about us, we can but bring
our hearts before the Lord with a clear conscience and a good heart.
It is sinful presumption to declare sinlessness, we can but declare we do not know
of any issues in our lives at the moment. And this should be the testimony of all believers.
Paul emphasised this to a degree to upset someone elses conscience for him was wrong.

7 since their conscience is weak, it is defiled.
1 cor 8

6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2

6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
1 John 2

John declares we need to walk like Jesus, and to be free from sin as best we can, but can
never declare we are, just that we walk.

 

[dcontroversal]

Why ADD something to FAITH that ALONE saves? Are you now deviating from your firm and irrefutable stance?


...Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1 Corinthians 1:20

This person loves to call those who disagree with his FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES as liars with no honesty or integrity but he himself could not be honest with himself regarding his stance on LIEING TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

...For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

...But the COWARDLY, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

Seoche, your deception, twist of what we all say, lack of honesty and credibility and false gospel is well known to most on this site....my position has never changed, you on the other hand vacillate, embellish, use deceitful tactics and devalue Christ by your anti-bible, psychological, pathetic false gospel.....exactly why most have you on ignore..........

 

[dcontroversal]

I am not going to question you on all of these, but who said bullet point e? I hope you're not inferring that I said that, because that would be a GROSS MISREPRESENTATION of what I said. I do not apply a statement universally to everyone like you did

Nor did I, but hey....you have an axe to grind for sure......

 

[dcontroversal]

Calling people names is a mark of immaturity. So does that mean you're not bearing any fruit?

And quoting me as saying "one MUST immediately start producing fruit, until they do, they are not saved." is a HORRIBLE misrepresentation of what I said. I never said one must bear fruit instantly. That is why NO ONE can provide a post where I said anything like that. I challenge you to try. SO you can see that you have not been reading carefully.

Really.....You must not read the bible....

White washed coffins filled with the bones of dead me
Hypocrites
Generation of snakes
Blind leaders of the blind

Jesus and John must have been immature

Get your facts straight Macaroon......and show me where I quoted you......!!!

 

[Macabeus]

Really.....You must not read the bible....

White washed coffins filled with the bones of dead me
Hypocrites
Generation of snakes
Blind leaders of the blind

Jesus and John must have been immature

Get your facts straight Macaroon......and show me where I quoted you......!!!

Trust me. You are no John and you are certainly no Jesus.

And Jesus and John never called people "meathead" or "macaroni".

And Jesus and John were able to comprehend what a person was saying without blatantly misrepresenting them.

And Jesus and John never agreed with someone who misquoted a person. Where did I say "you're not saved until you bear fruit?" Post number please.

And Jesus and John never lied, like you did when you said "he has a habit of denying he said something". You cannot provide ONE instance where I said something and then denied it. NOT ONE.

None of your fan club can produce one post, not one post, to document that I ever fruit inspected, said that you're not saved until you bear fruit, said something that I later denied. No, not one.

...and you denied believing in prodigals that don't return, yet you believe a person can die in a prodigal state and still be a son. That is a prodigal that does not return.