Showing your faith by your works

[eternally-gratefull]

I often see people post on here insisting that faith doesnt have anything to do with works.
Then it makes me wonder just what do they do with their faith. Do they just go to church on sunday, and all during the rest of the week make money for themselves, and spend it on holidays or another new car or something?

james writes in his letter 2:14-18

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say to him, depart in peace, and be warm and filled, notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body, what doth it profit? Even so, faith if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea a man may say thou hast faith, and I have works, shew me thy faith without thy works, and and I will show thee my faith by my works.

So all those who insist thats on 'faith alone', is James, the brother of Jesus wrong? What works have you got to show your faith?

How many of you have brothers and sisters, homeless, naked, and starving and you turn a blind eye. What do you do with your extra clothing or do you hoard it all in an overflowing wardrobe. Do you buy heaps of food, cant eat it all and then dump it to landfill? Do you have household with spare bedrooms, yet they all taken up so that nobody else can stay in them. What does that profit you? What work do you do in your neighbourhood, or is it so wealthy that nobody else needs anything because they too busy admiring their reflections in their shiny new SUVs or motorhomes in their six car garages?

I think you misunderstand people

People say SALVATION has nothing to do with works (being saved) they are saved BY FAITH not works
However, True faith works, it is not dead. No one has ever been saved by mere belief. As a result. People who have never been born again and given the power of God. Never work.

lack of work is due to lack of salvation. Not a precursor to loss of salvation.

 

[Rasputin_OZ]

IF Chrisitans don't sin anymore as some say, as we are forgiven for all future Sins apparently.

Why does the Lords prayer include the request for forgiveness.

Why does the bible , written to believes, keep reminding us of what not to do , and what to do.

IF we not under any obligation , tell me why is so much of new testitment include these commandments too, warnings of what not to do .

If we naturally don't sin and don't need forgiveness the bible should just finish with jesus command, Repent and Believe. Be filled with the spirit

 

[TLC209]

IF Chrisitans don't sin anymore as some say, as we are forgiven for all future Sins apparently.

Why does the Lords prayer include the request for forgiveness.

Why does the bible , written to believes, keep reminding us of what not to do , and what to do.

IF we not under any obligation , tell me why is so much of new testitment include these commandments too, warnings of what not to do .

If we naturally don't sin and don't need forgiveness the bible should just finish with jesus command, Repent and Believe. Be filled with the spirit

Exactly. Anything other than what the bible teaches can lead to false doctrine. Man made doctrine. Someone pulled all the scriptures to satisfy the ego and enough to make them believe they are good. Send the collection plate around one more time. The type that make a person feel good about themselves so that they don't need to change. Jesus paid the price Amen? So that we wont have to. Amen. They can receive this and walk out the church like nothing ever happened. "Saved".

True repentance is a change of heart. Repentance makes you take inventory of your life and see that you need God. We have been living all wrong, and we need Jesus. Take over God! I give my life to You. Surrendering to God. Leaving all our sinful desires behind and letting God into our lives. Wanting to be changed. The Holy Spirit can then help the person and begin to work on them. The bible is the truth. All the answers are in the bible. Not in man. Quit following man made doctrine.

 

[preston39]

IF Chrisitans don't sin anymore as some say, as we are forgiven for all future Sins apparently.

Why does the Lords prayer include the request for forgiveness.

Why does the bible , written to believes, keep reminding us of what not to do , and what to do.

IF we not under any obligation , tell me why is so much of new testitment include these commandments too, warnings of what not to do .

If we naturally don't sin and don't need forgiveness the bible should just finish with jesus command, Repent and Believe. Be filled with the spirit

Don't be miss led by new, new age religion interpretations of scripture.
The Bible says in the end times there will be great deceptions. We are there.

 

[Guojing]

God shows who He is thru scripture. He is a loving God and a merciful God but He is also very firm. We cannot play with God. So no I do not see God as how human percieve humans. God is an all consuming fire. He is not someone you play with. You seem to have only an idea of God your own understanding. There is only one God, the Living God and He is not how you describe Him.

Interesting that when I made this point

I see that you believe God perceived human beings like the way human perceived themselves and others

You replied that point with So no I do not see God as how human percieve humans

This is a good example of how reading comprehension is often lacking in Internet discussions.

As for your question about relationship with God, I could tell you were asking a rhetorical question and your assumption proved me correct. Even if I were to reply with a yes, it won't matter to you anyway. You have already made up your mind.

 

[Jackson123]

I often see people post on here insisting that faith doesnt have anything to do with works.
Then it makes me wonder just what do they do with their faith. Do they just go to church on sunday, and all during the rest of the week make money for themselves, and spend it on holidays or another new car or something?

james writes in his letter 2:14-18

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say to him, depart in peace, and be warm and filled, notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body, what doth it profit? Even so, faith if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea a man may say thou hast faith, and I have works, shew me thy faith without thy works, and and I will show thee my faith by my works.

So all those who insist thats on 'faith alone', is James, the brother of Jesus wrong? What works have you got to show your faith?

How many of you have brothers and sisters, homeless, naked, and starving and you turn a blind eye. What do you do with your extra clothing or do you hoard it all in an overflowing wardrobe. Do you buy heaps of food, cant eat it all and then dump it to landfill? Do you have household with spare bedrooms, yet they all taken up so that nobody else can stay in them. What does that profit you? What work do you do in your neighbourhood, or is it so wealthy that nobody else needs anything because they too busy admiring their reflections in their shiny new SUVs or motorhomes in their six car garages?

Yep there is correlation between faith and work.

Abraham have faith in God

Abraham went to promise land is a work as a result of his faith

Noah have faith in God

Noah make an ark is a work as direct result of his faith in God.

Salvation is by faith alone not by work, but faith produce loving work

The misunderstanding is a work as a fruit not as a requirement of salvation

 

[Guojing]

IF Chrisitans don't sin anymore as some say, as we are forgiven for all future Sins apparently.

Why does the Lords prayer include the request for forgiveness.

Why does the bible , written to believes, keep reminding us of what not to do , and what to do.

IF we not under any obligation , tell me why is so much of new testitment include these commandments too, warnings of what not to do .

If we naturally don't sin and don't need forgiveness the bible should just finish with jesus command, Repent and Believe. Be filled with the spirit

You must see the 4 Gospels as the conclusion of the Old Testament, rather than the beginning of the New.

IF Chrisitans don't sin anymore as some say, as we are forgiven for all future Sins apparently.

Why does the Lords prayer include the request for forgiveness.

Why does the bible , written to believes, keep reminding us of what not to do , and what to do.

IF we not under any obligation , tell me why is so much of new testitment include these commandments too, warnings of what not to do .

If we naturally don't sin and don't need forgiveness the bible should just finish with jesus command, Repent and Believe. Be filled with the spirit

If you missed the discussion theme, it’s not about whether u should or should not be doing good works.

It’s about the motivation behind those works. Are you doing it because you think god is more likely to answer your prayers?

Conversely if there are bad works, do you feel ‘less righteous’ in god’s sight?

If your answer is yes, you need to change your mind.

 

[Rasputin_OZ]

You must see the 4 Gospels as the conclusion of the Old Testament, rather than the beginning of the New.


If you missed the discussion theme, it’s not about whether u should or should not be doing good works.

It’s about the motivation behind those works. Are you doing it because you think god is more likely to answer your prayers?

Conversely if there are bad works, do you feel ‘less righteous’ in god’s sight?

If your answer is yes, you need to change your mind.

All the Epistles also keep listing things we should and shouldn't do. Amongst all the scritpures saying we full of spirit etc etc. still lots of scriptures listing what to do or not

 

[Guojing]

All the Epistles also keep listing things we should and shouldn't do. Amongst all the scritpures saying we full of spirit etc etc. still lots of scriptures listing what to do or not

Yes so my second point talks about the motivation for doing.

 

[Rasputin_OZ]

The motivation is we are filled by the spirit, and the spirit bears fruits.

If there no fruits, then no spirit. so get saved, fill with holy spirit , be born again

 

[Guojing]

The motivation is we are filled by the spirit, and the spirit bears fruits.

If there no fruits, then no spirit. so get saved, fill with holy spirit , be born again

That is why I wrote the scenario in the first page of this thread. While such pc statements are good, how would you respond at the end? That will tell me what you really believe.

Let me give you a scenario. Suppose you wake up one morning and everything went wrong for you

1. You quarreled with your wife.
2. You kicked the dog
3. Your kids scream at you and say correctly that you are a bad Father.
4. On the way to work, someone cuts into your lane while driving and you let us a cuss word out of anger.
5. And so on and so forth.

The moment you reach the workplace, you feel very bad about all these "bad things" that you have done.

Suddenly, your colleague ask you to pray for him, because he knows you are a Christian, he is sick and he wants you to pray that he will recover. Would you be

1. Most eager to pray for him, being confident that God will use you mightily to heal him?
2. Feeling awkward and tell him, "sorry today is not a good day"

 

[know1]

I don't think Christ said ask for whatever you want as if things your desire were loosened from you as they loosed from heaven and it will be bound on earth.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

You either haven't read the above verse, failed to see it, didn't understand it, didn't think it was meant for you, ignored it, or didn't believe what it said.

Did Jesus lie when said, whatsoever I desire?

Surely He meant, 'whatsoever My will is for you', or, 'if it is My will, then whatsoever you want/desire, shall be given.

No, He said, "what things soever we desire or want". That is the will of God, our Father.

The word that come from your mouth is not the word of God .

How can you say that?

How can the word that comes from my mouth not be or stop being the word of God, when I quote what is written in the bible?

Isn't the bible, the written word of God? And if I speak said word, how did it suddenly stop becoming the word of God?

Did the promise/gospel of salvation, automatically become your word and not God's, when you spoke it out your mouth?

At what point did that which is written, stop becoming God's word? When you confessed Jesus as your lord and savior?

Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

Another way of saying the above verse is, "His angels... listen to those who speak or give voice to His word."

Isa 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

God said, He put His word in our mouths.

So how can it not be?

Its his will that is loosed on earth inspired from heaven. It would seem you are turning things upside down

God's will is NOT loosed on earth.

We all know it is not God's will for any to perish, and yet, the majority do.

Jesus told us to pray for His will to be done on earth, NOT that it was done. If it was done, we wouldn't have to pray that it be done.

 

[Jackson123]

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

You either haven't read the above verse, failed to see it, didn't understand it, didn't think it was meant for you, ignored it, or didn't believe what it said.

Did Jesus lie when said, whatsoever I desire?

Surely He meant, 'whatsoever My will is for you', or, 'if it is My will, then whatsoever you want/desire, shall be given.

No, He said, "what things soever we desire or want". That is the will of God, our Father.



How can you say that?

How can the word that comes from my mouth not be or stop being the word of God, when I quote what is written in the bible?

Isn't the bible, the written word of God? And if I speak said word, how did it suddenly stop becoming the word of God?

Did the promise/gospel of salvation, automatically become your word and not God's, when you spoke it out your mouth?

At what point did that which is written, stop becoming God's word? When you confessed Jesus as your lord and savior?

Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

Another way of saying the above verse is, "His angels... listen to those who speak or give voice to His word."

Isa 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

God said, He put His word in our mouths.

So how can it not be?



God's will is NOT loosed on earth.

We all know it is not God's will for any to perish, and yet, the majority do.

Jesus told us to pray for His will to be done on earth, NOT that it was done. If it was done, we wouldn't have to pray that it be done.

Mark 11
22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. 23 “Truly[f] I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.” [26] [g]



Mark 11:24 start verse 22

1 you have to have faith in God than you can ask what ever you want.

Why there is condition?

I use to have a friend, he pray for pretty and sexy girl friend and god not answer His pray.

He think mark 11:24 is aplicable in every situation without verse 22.

I believe verse 22 is a requirement for verse 24.

A person that have faith in God will not asking for his lust or something that not the will of God.

Another friend ask for wife while he has a wife, Indonesian law permitted to have multiple wife.

If this verse mean what ever you want without verse 22, some day a robber may pray for the protection and success when he rob the bank.

 

[know1]

Mark 11
22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. 23 “Truly[f] I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.” [26] [g]



Mark 11:24 start verse 22

1 you have to have faith in God than you can ask what ever you want.

Why there is condition?

I use to have a friend, he pray for pretty and sexy girl friend and god not answer His pray.

He think mark 11:24 is aplicable in every situation without verse 22.

I believe verse 22 is a requirement for verse 24.

A person that have faith in God will not asking for his lust or something that not the will of God.

Another friend ask for wife while he has a wife, Indonesian law permitted to have multiple wife.

If this verse mean what ever you want without verse 22, some day a robber may pray for the protection and success when he rob the bank.

Other translations of vs 22 say, "Have the faith of God" or "Let the faith of God be in you".

Even as our righteousness is not our own, neither is our faith. It is of and from God.

Vs 22 is basically about Jesus telling Peter, "This is how you use the faith of God. This is what I did to kill the fig tree."

Vs 23 is about SPEAKING at, to, or about something in faith, either positively or negatively, while vs 24 is about ASKING God for something in faith.

And I stress the words, "IN FAITH", because without the necessary faith, you can speak to or ask for something all you want, nothing will happen.

Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

If you know you're asking for something that is not good, you CANNOT have the faith of God to receive it, because the faith of God works by the love of God, where lust is of the flesh. Faith doesn't work by lust but by love.

You will also not be able to have faith for anything, because your sin will prevent you from being able to believe.

God HAS TO perform or fulfill His word, but He has made it so that only the righteous will be able to believe.

 

[Jackson123]

Other translations of vs 22 say, "Have the faith of God" or "Let the faith of God be in you".

Even as our righteousness is not our own, neither is our faith. It is of and from God.

Vs 22 is basically about Jesus telling Peter, "This is how you use the faith of God. This is what I did to kill the fig tree."

Vs 23 is about SPEAKING at, to, or about something in faith, either positively or negatively, while vs 24 is about ASKING God for something in faith.

And I stress the words, "IN FAITH", because without the necessary faith, you can speak to or ask for something all you want, nothing will happen.

Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

If you know you're asking for something that is not good, you CANNOT have the faith of God to receive it, because the faith of God works by the love of God, where lust is of the flesh. Faith doesn't work by lust but by love.

You will also not be able to have faith for anything, because your sin will prevent you from being able to believe.

God HAS TO perform or fulfill His word, but He has made it so that only the righteous will be able to believe.

Yep, some people misunderstood verse 24 about whatever you ask and faith

Some people think faith mean believe that God will do what ever we want.

My pastor tell the story about one young church member.

He pray for $250000 car. He put the picture of the car in his room to show his faith.

He believe God will send the car to him, but for years the car never come

He think faith only mean believe.

I agree faith also mean love, faith in God also mean love to God, that mean change our attitude and not worldly anymore

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Other translations of vs 22 say, "Have the faith of God" or "Let the faith of God be in you".

Even as our righteousness is not our own, neither is our faith. It is of and from God.

Vs 22 is basically about Jesus telling Peter, "This is how you use the faith of God. This is what I did to kill the fig tree."

Vs 23 is about SPEAKING at, to, or about something in faith, either positively or negatively, while vs 24 is about ASKING God for something in faith.

And I stress the words, "IN FAITH", because without the necessary faith, you can speak to or ask for something all you want, nothing will happen.

Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

If you know you're asking for something that is not good, you CANNOT have the faith of God to receive it, because the faith of God works by the love of God, where lust is of the flesh. Faith doesn't work by lust but by love.

You will also not be able to have faith for anything, because your sin will prevent you from being able to believe.

God HAS TO perform or fulfill His word, but He has made it so that only the righteous will be able to believe.

14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
15 And if we know that he hears us--whatever we ask--we know that we have what we asked of him.
1 John 5

But there are some strict conditions on knowing Gods will

1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1 John 5

Most of those who claim miraculous miracles are asking for the wrong thing in the wrong way,
not obeying or following God. So not surprisingly they get nothing.

 

[Jackson123]

Other translations of vs 22 say, "Have the faith of God" or "Let the faith of God be in you".

Even as our righteousness is not our own, neither is our faith. It is of and from God.

Vs 22 is basically about Jesus telling Peter, "This is how you use the faith of God. This is what I did to kill the fig tree."

Vs 23 is about SPEAKING at, to, or about something in faith, either positively or negatively, while vs 24 is about ASKING God for something in faith.

And I stress the words, "IN FAITH", because without the necessary faith, you can speak to or ask for something all you want, nothing will happen.

Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

If you know you're asking for something that is not good, you CANNOT have the faith of God to receive it, because the faith of God works by the love of God, where lust is of the flesh. Faith doesn't work by lust but by love.

You will also not be able to have faith for anything, because your sin will prevent you from being able to believe.

God HAS TO perform or fulfill His word, but He has made it so that only the righteous will be able to believe.

Yep, some people misunderstood verse 24 about whatever you ask and faith

Some people think faith mean believe that God will do what ever we want.

My pastor tell the story about one young church member.

He pray for $250000 car. He put the picture of the car in his room to show his faith.

He believe God will send the car to him, but for years the car never come

He think faith only mean believe.

I agree faith also mean love, faith in God also mean love to God, that mean change our attitude and not worldly anymore

 

[Macabeus]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

So an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" (barren of works - James 2:14) is not to be confused with faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9). We need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In another thread a verse was posted that is relevant to the conversation. It is now my new sig. Acts 26:20.

 

[Macabeus]

AMEN. Acts 26:20- but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.

 

[Macabeus]

Empty profession of faith/dead faith indeed. (James 2:14-20) Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. (All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful - Matthew 13:23). No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. Simple!

Amen...

Colossians 1:6- Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

John 15:5- I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.