You have the right idea. The remnant of the elect is the church that Jesus set up. That is just the remnant of God's elect. The whole of his elect is numbered as the sand of the seashore and the stars in heaven, to many to be numbered. I believe the two gates talked about in Matthew are both entered into by God's elect. Those entering the wide gate are those of the elect who are going about teaching a false doctrine based on the obedience and will of man and the straight gate are those who the Holy Spirit has revealed the truth of the doctrine that Jesus taught.
The house of Israel
- Thread starter ForestGreenCook
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O
hahaha, you really have not even uncovered anything to prove your point. The real established spiritual Covenant was not the moment Jacob grabbed Esau at birth, or wrestled with God and God blessed him by changing his name to Israel, it was established by Joseph.
Here is Joseph =
Genesis 37:
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Revelation 12:
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
This is where we ultimately find the spiritual connection.
Joseph's prophetic dream confirmed by Yeshua in Revelation shows us how God kept His connection to Israel to the bitter end.
The Gentiles being added have nothing to do with Jacob and the connection established through Joseph. We plainly see that well past the allowance of Gentiles into the fold that God continues with Israel all the way through to the Great final Tribulation and end of time.
And yes, I can go very deep into this subject matter. But after reading what you provided as proof, I only see that in this current world and its time and place in God's ultimate plan, there is not enough time for you to actually get a clue!!
But you go ahead and do your pony song and dance ad believe you have a clue. Because obviously, Yeshua (GOD) provides us with the information we actually need in the Book of Revelation, to show He never did as you suggest when pertaining to Israel!!
If you can not see the difference between the nation of Israel and the house of Israel, national Israel and spiritual Israel, you will, seemingly, have many contradicting scriptures. I do believe that if the scriptures do not harmonize, then you do not understand the doctrine that Jesus taught. Jesus instructed the apostles to go preach to the lost sheep (sheep means that they are born again children of God) so God is saying that his children are lost (not lost eternally, but lost from the knowledge of the righteousness of God). Romans 10 is an example of the same situation. Spiritual Israel, the house of Israel (Jacob) some were going about trying to establish their own righteousness because of a lack of knowledge of the righteousness of God.
The house of Israel is all 12 tribes.
Israel was called of God, and Israel is the Church.
From Abraham to the nation of Israel to the Church to the millennial reign of Christ to the New Jerusalem, where the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles of the Lamb are written in the New Jerusalem, it is all about Israel.
Jesus said salvation is of the Jews, and when a Gentile is saved they become a Jew inward, and are part of the commonwealth of Israel for they are the Church.
Paul said God did not cast off His people that He once foreknew, and there is always a remnant that abide in the truth even today.
God said that if the ordinances of heaven are still in affect, the sun, moon, and stars, His covenant is still with Israel, and they will not cease to be a nation.
God said that He is the LORD, and He does not change, therefore the sons of Jacob are not consumed.
God gave Israel a blessing if the nation of Israel abides in the truth, and a cursing if they do not by way of their enemies going against them and scattering them in to the nations.
Which is what happened when God gave Israel 70 years to turn to the truth, but they did not, so He allowed the Roman Empire to go against them and scatter the Jews in to nations.
But He did not cast them away, but it is only a punishment.
God said anytime that the nation of Israel cries out to God in the truth, even in the latter days which is now, He will hear them and work with them as before time.
God said He will bring the all the Jews back to the nation of Israel which is already happening, for He is going to restore the kingdom back to the Jews like in the Old Testament.
And for people that say they are not Jews in Israel, but imposters, it will all be straightened out in due time, and the true Jews will be back on their land, and we will know who they are, if there be any false Jews as they claim, and any deception they go by now, such as not the New Testament, or the occult, will all be straightened out also.
And for people that say that African Americans, and Native Americans, and Latinos, are Jews, then we will see if they are, or not, for if they do not go to Israel then we will know they were not the Jews, for it is decreed by God, and cannot be thwarted and come to pass.
But they are not Jews, and if God is bringing all the Jews to Israel, would there be that many Jews to fit in the tiny country of Israel if they are those 3 ethnic groups.
And if African Americans are Jews, then all the Africans in Africa are Jews, and would have to go to Israel.
I think the math is wrong for when the Jews go back there is not going to be that many of them like that.
And when Israel became a nation again we do not see those people going to Israel.
And also if they are Jews what I would like to know is how come none of them knew anything about the Old Testament, and the teaching passing down, as if they forgot it all until recently when claiming that they are the Jews.
You mean the Native Americans, and even in Canada, and Latinos, forgot all that they believed for thousands of years, and nothing was retained at all, or passed down.
And for those that say the throne of David moved to England, and they are descendants of David, and the 10 lost tribes of Israel are European it is not true.
And again will they all go to Israel.
Nay, they will not, and the Jews will be few in number when this happens compared to people that say both positions are true.
The disciples asked Jesus if He was going to restore the kingdom on earth to the Jews at that time, and He said the Father will do it in His time, but be concerned with preaching the Gospel.
70 weeks are determined upon Israel to make an end of sins, and anoint the most holy who is Jesus, which started before Jesus came for the Jews were not in the truth then, for if they were in the truth before Jesus the Roman Empire would not have been in control of her.
69 weeks have passed with 1 more week to go, which is the time that God causes all people who do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom in Revelation 13, and bring the nation of Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.
The Bible says that Israel is blinded in part, which they acknowledge the Old Testament for the majority, but not the New, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, when salvation is no longer available to them, and so all Israel shall be saved.
The man of sin, New Age Christ, will establish peace in the Middle East, and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel, and the Jews and Gentiles will be separated, for the Gentile nations will see to it, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land, but God means it for good to the Jews.
The Jews will rebuild their temple, and go back to animal sacrifices, for they are blinded in part, with no hassle from the Palestinians, and the Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians.
The Gentile nations will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth.
The 7 years period will begin.
Repentance and salvation are still available to the world for the first three and one half years.
War will break out between Islam and the world in which one third of the world perishes which is mainly in the Arab countries, plucked up by the roots, nuclear weapons.
That war will be so terrible that the world turns to the New Age Christ as the solution to have peace, and prosperity on earth.
When the world takes the mark of the beast, which is a device stuck under the skin, a GPS tracking system for humans, then repentance and salvation are no longer available to the world, and the fulness of the Gentiles has come in.
God will then turn Israel as a nation to the truth by 2 witnesses, and the Jews that know the truth will work with the Jews concerning the truth, for the last three and one half years, and at the end of that time Israel as a nation will be in the truth.
The world will attack Jerusalem, Israel, the Jews, in which they go through half of the city of Jerusalem, which must be the Palestinian side, and when they get to the Jews then Jesus will save the Jews, and defeat the world.
The LORD will be King over all the world, and Jesus will rule out of Jerusalem on the throne of David fulfilling the role of perfect King on earth so the law can be fulfilled, and the kingdom restored to the Jews.
And in that day there shall be one LORD, and His name one, and the knowledge of the LORD shall fill the whole earth as the waters cover the sea.
The heathen that God spared at the battle of Armageddon, one sixth of the world, has to go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship the King, and to keep the feast of tabernacles to be right with God for they are in the flesh.
God said that He is going to make a full end of all Gentile nations, their governments, but will not make a full end of Israel, but she will not be wholly unpunished, but be corrected in measure.
God said He is going to bring the whole house of Jacob, all 12 tribes back to their land, and restore the kingdom to them after they have borne their shame for their sins, and trespassing against God, and they shall know the LORD their God from that day forward, and He will never hide His face from them again.
So this cannot be a past prophesy, and not the Babylonian captivity, for if that was true then Israel as a nation would be in the truth today, and they would of not rejected Jesus.
Once this prophesy happens Israel will always be in the truth nothing wavering, for now they are with Jesus on earth, and know it is the truth, and then to the New Jerusalem the final destination of the saints.
Israel was called of God, and Israel is the Church.
From Abraham to the nation of Israel to the Church to the millennial reign of Christ to the New Jerusalem, where the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles of the Lamb are written in the New Jerusalem, it is all about Israel.
Jesus said salvation is of the Jews, and when a Gentile is saved they become a Jew inward, and are part of the commonwealth of Israel for they are the Church.
Paul said God did not cast off His people that He once foreknew, and there is always a remnant that abide in the truth even today.
God said that if the ordinances of heaven are still in affect, the sun, moon, and stars, His covenant is still with Israel, and they will not cease to be a nation.
God said that He is the LORD, and He does not change, therefore the sons of Jacob are not consumed.
God gave Israel a blessing if the nation of Israel abides in the truth, and a cursing if they do not by way of their enemies going against them and scattering them in to the nations.
Which is what happened when God gave Israel 70 years to turn to the truth, but they did not, so He allowed the Roman Empire to go against them and scatter the Jews in to nations.
But He did not cast them away, but it is only a punishment.
God said anytime that the nation of Israel cries out to God in the truth, even in the latter days which is now, He will hear them and work with them as before time.
God said He will bring the all the Jews back to the nation of Israel which is already happening, for He is going to restore the kingdom back to the Jews like in the Old Testament.
And for people that say they are not Jews in Israel, but imposters, it will all be straightened out in due time, and the true Jews will be back on their land, and we will know who they are, if there be any false Jews as they claim, and any deception they go by now, such as not the New Testament, or the occult, will all be straightened out also.
And for people that say that African Americans, and Native Americans, and Latinos, are Jews, then we will see if they are, or not, for if they do not go to Israel then we will know they were not the Jews, for it is decreed by God, and cannot be thwarted and come to pass.
But they are not Jews, and if God is bringing all the Jews to Israel, would there be that many Jews to fit in the tiny country of Israel if they are those 3 ethnic groups.
And if African Americans are Jews, then all the Africans in Africa are Jews, and would have to go to Israel.
I think the math is wrong for when the Jews go back there is not going to be that many of them like that.
And when Israel became a nation again we do not see those people going to Israel.
And also if they are Jews what I would like to know is how come none of them knew anything about the Old Testament, and the teaching passing down, as if they forgot it all until recently when claiming that they are the Jews.
You mean the Native Americans, and even in Canada, and Latinos, forgot all that they believed for thousands of years, and nothing was retained at all, or passed down.
And for those that say the throne of David moved to England, and they are descendants of David, and the 10 lost tribes of Israel are European it is not true.
And again will they all go to Israel.
Nay, they will not, and the Jews will be few in number when this happens compared to people that say both positions are true.
The disciples asked Jesus if He was going to restore the kingdom on earth to the Jews at that time, and He said the Father will do it in His time, but be concerned with preaching the Gospel.
70 weeks are determined upon Israel to make an end of sins, and anoint the most holy who is Jesus, which started before Jesus came for the Jews were not in the truth then, for if they were in the truth before Jesus the Roman Empire would not have been in control of her.
69 weeks have passed with 1 more week to go, which is the time that God causes all people who do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom in Revelation 13, and bring the nation of Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.
The Bible says that Israel is blinded in part, which they acknowledge the Old Testament for the majority, but not the New, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, when salvation is no longer available to them, and so all Israel shall be saved.
The man of sin, New Age Christ, will establish peace in the Middle East, and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel, and the Jews and Gentiles will be separated, for the Gentile nations will see to it, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land, but God means it for good to the Jews.
The Jews will rebuild their temple, and go back to animal sacrifices, for they are blinded in part, with no hassle from the Palestinians, and the Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians.
The Gentile nations will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth.
The 7 years period will begin.
Repentance and salvation are still available to the world for the first three and one half years.
War will break out between Islam and the world in which one third of the world perishes which is mainly in the Arab countries, plucked up by the roots, nuclear weapons.
That war will be so terrible that the world turns to the New Age Christ as the solution to have peace, and prosperity on earth.
When the world takes the mark of the beast, which is a device stuck under the skin, a GPS tracking system for humans, then repentance and salvation are no longer available to the world, and the fulness of the Gentiles has come in.
God will then turn Israel as a nation to the truth by 2 witnesses, and the Jews that know the truth will work with the Jews concerning the truth, for the last three and one half years, and at the end of that time Israel as a nation will be in the truth.
The world will attack Jerusalem, Israel, the Jews, in which they go through half of the city of Jerusalem, which must be the Palestinian side, and when they get to the Jews then Jesus will save the Jews, and defeat the world.
The LORD will be King over all the world, and Jesus will rule out of Jerusalem on the throne of David fulfilling the role of perfect King on earth so the law can be fulfilled, and the kingdom restored to the Jews.
And in that day there shall be one LORD, and His name one, and the knowledge of the LORD shall fill the whole earth as the waters cover the sea.
The heathen that God spared at the battle of Armageddon, one sixth of the world, has to go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship the King, and to keep the feast of tabernacles to be right with God for they are in the flesh.
God said that He is going to make a full end of all Gentile nations, their governments, but will not make a full end of Israel, but she will not be wholly unpunished, but be corrected in measure.
God said He is going to bring the whole house of Jacob, all 12 tribes back to their land, and restore the kingdom to them after they have borne their shame for their sins, and trespassing against God, and they shall know the LORD their God from that day forward, and He will never hide His face from them again.
So this cannot be a past prophesy, and not the Babylonian captivity, for if that was true then Israel as a nation would be in the truth today, and they would of not rejected Jesus.
Once this prophesy happens Israel will always be in the truth nothing wavering, for now they are with Jesus on earth, and know it is the truth, and then to the New Jerusalem the final destination of the saints.
O
I don't care about the differences in how you want to define all of the aspects of Israel. Bottom line, the physical, spiritual, and house of Israel ALL plays a final role in God's plan explained by GOD HIMSELF in the Book of Revelation's. The very fact Revelations chapter 12 reveals what took place on Earth with Joseph is now to be a sign of what is going to happen at the midpoint of Tribulation proves you are incorrect in your entire assessment of all aspects of Israel.
Nowhere within the Book of Revelations do we see the Gentiles as the forefront players representing Israel like we do the actual physical and spiritual Israel play. And that is a solid fact and proof of what you are trying to claim is ultimately wrong.
Like I said, you don't get it and I don't care to waste time on this.
Respectfully, I do not believe you see the difference in the nation of Israel and Spiritual Israel. You quoted; "therefore the son's of Jacob shall not be consumed". God changed Jacob's name to Israel, no more to be called Jacob. The son's of Jacob (spiritual Israel)are the elect.Most of the time Israel is used in a scripture it is talking about spiritual Israel, not about the nation of Israel. I am not sure where to look for the scripture is that caused you to make the statement ; "God says anytime the nation of Israel cries out to me". Are you sure that is says "anytime that Israel cries out" and not "the nation of Israel cries out"?
The key to our difference of interpretation of the scriptures is that all scriptures mus harmonize in order to be the doctrine that Jesus taught, I have tried rt explain all of the scriptures you have given me in defense of your interpretations and you have ignored some of the ones that I have quoted to you. The Holy Spirit will never reveal to us the meaning of the scriptures until we deny ourselves (get rid of depending upon our own understanding or intellect)
O
You remind me of someone who lives in a home that has no windows, no mirrors, nothing stainless or aluminum because it might reflect just exactly what you are. Get over trying to be a martyr. You first have to be correct before you can actually suffer for knowing the truth!! You are a classic narcissist. Try seeing a shrink, because you are not getting what God is trying to reveal unto you
You remind me of someone who lives in a home that has no windows, no mirrors, nothing stainless or aluminum because it might reflect just exactly what you are. Get over trying to be a martyr. You first have to be correct before you can actually suffer for knowing the truth!! You are a classic narcissist. Try seeing a shrink, because you are not getting what God is trying to reveal unto you
O
Show me where I have altered the Gospel at, because every time you've pointed something out to me it has not been TRUE and how YOU perceived it. This is how I understood you were trying to manipulate me, and you still are by trying to break me down.
The people who did follow Yeshua were the people God never broke down. They broke down because they recognized they were impure and needed God's Salvation.
The fact you go directly to breaking me down reveals you are trying to sneak hidden lies to me. But I am unlike most human beings, I have a degree and a minister's pedigree that deals specifically with the narcissist. All you have done, was stick your hand into an active hornet's hive. That in return, recognized something was wrong and attacked you.
Come at me with TRUTH and FACTS!!
This is now like our 6th back n forth posts, and you still are trying to manipulate me by breaking me down. No matter what you want me to believe, I have copied your posts and sent them to several of my psych colleagues and ALL AGREE that you are a NARCISSIST.
And the 2 key components to what a NARCISSIST is.....1. LIES, 2. when the LIES are refuted they go to MANIPULATION.
And you have DONE THAT in every post towards me.
SO NO, I will never believe you!! Because MENTALLY, you believe your LIES as the TRUTH due to you being Psychologically Damaged.
God is not a LIAR nor a MANIPULATOR. And that is what your characteristics have been in our back n forth. So therefore, it's hard to believe your view is coming from GOD!!
Those who believe in Christ become the elect.
One is not 'elect' in order to believe in Christ.
Christ did the Work of the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and sits as the Perfect, Permanent High Priest for all who choose to believe in Him \0/ !
You may be considering two or three concepts which all need to be viewed through the lens of the Work of Christ:
- Who is Israel (there is a 'Two House' or 'Lost Tribes' false doctrine out there which may be influencing you)
- The concept of election
- The concept of predestination
I find the following series to be a very thorough, Scriptural treatment of Israel, Gentiles, election, and predestination:
https://andrewfarley.org/videos/the-predestination-puzzle/
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I firmly believe that the only way that a person can understand anything about the doctrine that Jesus taught is if the Holy Spirit (one who reveals) reveals it to the bible student. God will not allow the truth to be revealed until the person has denied himself (his own intellect). The scriptures should be our only source of doctrinal information and not other men's writings and interpretations. I feel that your many degrees and dependence upon other men's interpretations of the scriptures is a deterrent to God allowing the truth of Christ's doctrine to be revealed to you. Jesus, himself, taught the apostles, except for Paul, and he did not go to the rest of the apostles to learn the doctrine of Christ, but went off to himself and was taught by the Holy Spirit.
The scriptures alone should be our only source of doctrinal information and not the interpretations of men, therefore I did not view your video and do not read other men's interpretations. The scriptures say (1 Cor 2:14) that the natural man cannot discern spiritual things, such as believing in Jesus, until God regenerates (Eph 2) him and gives him the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in which spiritual faith is a fruit of (Gal 5)