Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[preacher1611]

Hi Preacher1611, welcome to the BDF (Bible Discussion Forums). I see that zealous to battle false doctrines, and you're itching to call something an "opposition of science falsely so called". But what statement you are refuting?

Got a second question for you. Have you ever questioned why James 2 was written?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

First I do question why James was written, as well as I do all scripture! I know many reasons why but I never (by Gods grace) question the authority of “the holy scriptures”.

I’m not refuting anything brother. Nor am I saying I either agree nor disagree with folks in this discussion. I’m simply trying to learn from all my brethren. We are all members of the same body and each part is needful. My scripture quotations are for anyone to heed to, including myself. I’m not opposing true science. I believe the Lord is warming of “science FALSELY so called”. It’s called science when it isn’t! It’s falsely called science. Such as the religion of Darwinian evolution. The scriptures are where our faith comes from and grows. Be cautious of “philosophy” (or philosophers), and “science falsely so called” as well as “the love of money”. That’s my simple message in these scripture quotations. I’m not causing fights with my brethren. I try to simply give scripture for folks to consider. I do add some commentary though.

 

[KelbyofGod]

See above, Post # 238. the formatting was off and I did not see it.. before 5 minute rule

EG, I've got a question for you. How can you tell for certain that any particular person has received Holy Ghost?

 

[preacher1611]

1 Corinthians 14:22 KJV
[22] Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, I've got a question for you. How can you tell for certain that any particular person has received Holy Ghost?

Considering even James asked people to test their faith, knowing that some there were not saved, and Paul spoke of people coming in acting like christians.

I would say you can not know for sure.. Many people you think have him may not, and people you do not think have him may

Should we be the judge of a persons salvation (if they are saved or not) would be my question?

Remember also. While I am thinking, Jesus said on the last day many people will speak of how they cast out demons and did all these mighty works you would think could only come from the Holy Spirit. Yet jesus said he NEVER KNEW THEM, proving they were never spirit filled.

 

[KelbyofGod]

First I do question why James was written, as well as I do all scripture! I know many reasons why but I never (by Gods grace) question the authority of “the holy scriptures”.

I’m not refuting anything brother. Nor am I saying I either agree nor disagree with folks in this discussion. I’m simply trying to learn from all my brethren. We are all members of the same body and each part is needful. My scripture quotations are for anyone to heed to, including myself. I’m not opposing true science. I believe the Lord is warming of “science FALSELY so called”. It’s called science when it isn’t! It’s falsely called science. Such as the religion of Darwinian evolution. The scriptures are where our faith comes from and grows. Be cautious of “philosophy” (or philosophers), and “science falsely so called” as well as “the love of money”. That’s my simple message in these scripture quotations. I’m not causing fights with my brethren. I try to simply give scripture for folks to consider. I do add some commentary though.

No worries. It's good to have you here.

It's ok if you spark a debate or argument by making a bold statement or asking a challenging question. That's kind of what BDF is here for.

It's nice to have the chance to explore them, and for others to point out errors (or potential errors) in our thinking.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

1 Corinthians 14:22 KJV
[22] Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

BTW, I'll be rather persistent in asking clarifying questions. Such as:

We're you posting that verse as an answer to something, or just as a stand-alone good verse for all to read?

 

[KelbyofGod]

Considering even James asked people to test their faith, knowing that some there were not saved, and Paul spoke of people coming in acting like christians.

I would say you can not know for sure.. Many people you think have him may not, and people you do not think have him may

Should we be the judge of a persons salvation (if they are saved or not) would be my question?

Remember also. While I am thinking, Jesus said on the last day many people will speak of how they cast out demons and did all these mighty works you would think could only come from the Holy Spirit. Yet jesus said he NEVER KNEW THEM, proving they were never spirit filled.

So, if you can't tell whether or not someone has got the holy ghost, you really can't tell someone they are now "saved", correct?

 

[KelbyofGod]

The way I see it, the holy ghost is a witness (provides observable evidence) so one person can tell when another individual receives the Holy Ghost.

And that also lines up with the biblical accounts.

 

[Absolutely]

Considering even James asked people to test their faith, knowing that some there were not saved, and Paul spoke of people coming in acting like christians.

I would say you can not know for sure.. Many people you think have him may not, and people you do not think have him may

Should we be the judge of a persons salvation (if they are saved or not) would be my question?

Remember also. While I am thinking, Jesus said on the last day many people will speak of how they cast out demons and did all these mighty works you would think could only come from the Holy Spirit. Yet jesus said he NEVER KNEW THEM, proving they were never spirit filled.

Several in acts were saved and then recieved the Baptism in the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands.
One got the baptism first,then got saved.

Two different element (salvation<> baptism in the Holy Spirit)

 

[preacher1611]

BTW, I'll be rather persistent in asking clarifying questions. Such as:

We're you posting that verse as an answer to something, or just as a stand-alone good verse for all to read?

For all to read

 

[preacher1611]

EG, I've got a question for you. How can you tell for certain that any particular person has received Holy Ghost?

1 Corinthians 6:19 KJV
[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

IF YOU ARE SAVED YOU HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST.
Romans 8:9 KJV
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

“Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is NONE of his”


2 Corinthians 11:4 KJV
[4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, if you can't tell whether or not someone has got the holy ghost, you really can't tell someone they are now "saved", correct?

Why would I even want to try? Thats between them and God is it not. You do not know a persons heart nore do I. If someone is with you and prays for God. You have no means to know that have truly accepted God.

Even paul says IF you...

Sorry, Lookin for some sign, that is not found in scripture, and would be dangerous, All those people who boasted of their works on the day of judgment, Do you think people told them THEY WERE SAVED because they did those gifts?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The way I see it, the holy ghost is a witness (provides observable evidence) so one person can tell when another individual receives the Holy Ghost.

And that also lines up with the biblical accounts.

Well since no one i promised to speak in tongues, how can that be proof? Is this why people say if you do not speak in tongues your not saved?

The only thing the bible says is his spirit works with your spirit to confirm you are children of God. And that if you have not received chastening, your probably not Gods

There are far to many warnings to the church and those in the church that say that people we think are saved may not be saved. Including warnings that after they walked away and become an anti christ they never were saved.

So how many people told these people they were saved and got it wrong?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Several in acts were saved and then recieved the Baptism in the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands.
One got the baptism first,then got saved.

Two different element (salvation<> baptism in the Holy Spirit)

Baptism means cleansing

If your not baptised (by God) your not cleansed. Period

 

[KelbyofGod]

1 Corinthians 6:19 KJV
[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

IF YOU ARE SAVED YOU HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST.
Romans 8:9 KJV
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

“Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is NONE of his”


2 Corinthians 11:4 KJV
[4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him .

As you highlighted, Romans 8 says that if a person doesn’t have the holy ghost, they are not God's. It does not say the reverse.

It does not say that if a person claims to be a Christian, or 'saved' they have the Holy Ghost.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As you highlighted, Romans 8 says that if a person doesn’t have the holy ghost, they are not God's. It does not say the reverse.

It does not say that if a person claims to be a Christian, or 'saved' they have the Holy Ghost.

Matt 7 : Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

Did these people have the Holy Ghost?

 

[garee]

The way I see it, the holy ghost is a witness (provides observable evidence) so one person can tell when another individual receives the Holy Ghost.

And that also lines up with the biblical accounts.

The witness of God, the unseen holy thing is greater than the witness of men seen. In that way we should be careful how we hear or say we hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

That what you offered could apply to the patron saint idea according to the patron factory in Rome.. That is if the kingdom of God did come by observation rather than walking by faith. the unseen eternal

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

But the signs that are used as metaphors in parables like shadows that follow someone has believed prophecy, they are already given and the Holy Spirit is not adding to that list of metaphors he set aside as holy in regard to the poor or bankrupt in spirit ….the riches of the gospel is preached. .

I think we have the whole will and he is not adding to list in Luke below other than an antidote for the poison of false prophecy do not add or subtract from the prophecy of God as the word of God. .

It would be like those who do believe, given eyes to see. And new heart to believe with a new spirit, as spirit raised up from corruption (the dead ) and new ears to hear, all metaphors of those who have believed the gospel

It reassured the suffering hope of John ….. should he look for another? What he hoped for to remove all doubt, strengthened his feeble knees of doubt and helped him jump for joy as the lame walk by the faith of the good report...…. "Go your way, and tell John".... The Spirit witnessing to John's new spirit he was a child of God. The greater witness (Romans 8:16)

Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

I would think the same kind of strengthening of each others feeble knees of doubt. like in John 11 . He had given Lazarus ears to hear the wake up call when Christ told the disciples .In affect saying Remove the temporal clothing of doubt.... strengthen each others feeble knees. In the final ressurection all without human hands will be clothed with the righteousness of our husband Christ in the twinkling of the eye. Both here the same wake up .

44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

 

[garee]

Matt 7 : Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

Did these people have the Holy Ghost?

No It would appear that they believed they were the power by which demons are cast out. they were the authors of the power that cast them out WE have that treasure in us but are never to assume it could be of us. Rather not like a Roman Catholic special priest (Exorcist.) Needing a man seen to give the illusion God is served by human hands and his kingdom does come by observation. God is not served by human hands. He moves the clay he is forming Christ in the clay does not take away that understanding and trutn things ypside down .that would be walking by sights

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

The key to understand that parable in Matt 7 is to...... How is the metaphor "worker of inquity" is defined?

You can look to both reformations. The first century as well as the fifteenth century reformation, both governments did get reformed that had became governed by the corruptible oral traditions of men.. making the written tradition of God without effect . The reformation performed its living work faithfully restoring it to a previous time period when all things written in the law and prophets was the perfect law of faith . As it is written. It was the restoring power in both time periods . God magnifying it as it is written.... the once source of Christian faith and subjects it above all his name as the eternal I AM .

Yes, depart from me or get behind me you worker of iniquity, as he told Peter..... "you have in mind the things of men, seen and not the things of God, the unseen eternal" .

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:22-23

I would call that parable you offered in Matt 7. "God's Spirit of light" seeing into the heart of men looking to see where the faith came from to work the good works like those of Christians offer towards his name. And not towards our own name, as self edifying, workers of iniquity (those who glory in the demonstrations of the flesh) and not what they represent as shadows the power to restore . . .In that way his sweet words do not return void, it does the building up as well as humbling

Psalm 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

Proverbs 25:16 Hast thou found honey? eat so much as is sufficient for thee, lest thou be filled therewith, and vomit it.

If they came from the heart of the foolish like the man in the parable. God calls them fools, "those who do not believe God in their unconverted dark hearts. He did not say that man did not perform them good works of prophesying But a faithful warning to us not to eat to much honey, swallow it before you get a belly full and it loses the little sweetness a person does have, if he has any to begin with .

Psalm 5:5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

 

[preacher1611]

Matt 7 : Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

Did these people have the Holy Ghost?

These people did NOT have the Holy Ghost. If you have the Holy Ghost you are saved. If you are saved you are known of God and he willing NEVER forsake you. If these folks had the Holy Ghost (saved) then Jesus lies when he said, “I NEVER knew you”!

 

[preacher1611]

Matt 7 : Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

Did these people have the Holy Ghost?

I answered this question already but I’ll answer it again. If those folks were saved they have the Holy Ghost. If they are saved they are KNOWN of God. If they are EVER known of God they are forever known of him. That’s called eternal life and eternal forgiveness. If Jesus ever knew these folks then he’d be a liar (he is NOT) if he later said, “I NEVER knew you”!