Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?

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Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#361
Mar 28, 2019
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#361
John146 said:
V18 is a perfect representation of Israel, a kind of fitstfruits.
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you think the first fruits come 2000 ys later? i think firstfruits means 1st century jews (the thousands of them) who got saved in pentecost and after..
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#362
Jan 13, 2016
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#362
Melach said:
you think the first fruits come 2000 ys later? i think firstfruits means 1st century jews (the thousands of them) who got saved in pentecost and after..
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Yes, but James says “a kind” of firstfruits. Still pointing to Jews.
 
piroma

piroma

Member
#363
Apr 12, 2019
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#363
crossnote said:
2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB
[17] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
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define now new things and old ones
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#364
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#364
Melach said:
you think the first fruits come 2000 ys later? i think firstfruits means 1st century jews (the thousands of them) who got saved in pentecost and after..
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My view.....Christ, those resurrected and all the boys under 2 killed by Herod as martyrs in the place of JESUS....also called firstfruits.....
 
crossnote

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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piroma said:
define now new things and old ones
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A lawyer?
A new heart as in...

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (Jer 31:33)

Where we once hated or had no interest or love for God or our fellow man, but through the new birth that all changed.

Also...

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1)
in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— (Eph 2:2)
among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. (Eph 2:3)
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, (Eph 2:4)
even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— (Eph 2:5)
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#366
Jan 12, 2019
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#366
eternally-gratefull said:
Um no

I have no idea what your talking about

The gospel of the kingdom was for all people. John the baptist preached it long before James and or paul. .
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As I have said, we are all dispensationalists at heart, it is just the extent of it.

We were all brought up reading the bible and there is a clear blank page that divides the Old Testament and the New Testament. Thus, we grew up being taught that the NT applies to us specifically, but the OT is for us to learn from, but the OT applied to the Jews.

However, when it comes to books in the NT, only those who lean even more towards dispensationalism will accept that certain books are instructions mainly to the Jews, and do not apply to the Gentile Church directly.

I can see that you are not one of them, and that is fine. All of us are still saved because of the Gospel of Grace, which is putting our faith in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#367
Jan 12, 2019
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#367
Melach said:
how do we know its written before the Jerusalem council event?
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I hope you don't think the placement of the books in the New Testament is based on chronological order, the time in which they were written.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#369
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#369
crossnote said:
We 'all' were? LOL, that is news to me. Bibles were forbidden in our house growing up.
Click to expand...

I mean as a general point. Of course there could be exceptions depending on your specific country
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#372
Nov 24, 2012
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#372
Guojing said:
Ok, If you grow up reading a bible as a Christian...:)

Why split hair over what is not the main point?
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Just call me the 'anti-assumption police', where I'm on patrol looking for false assumptions such as this one, lol..."We were all brought up reading the bible."
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#373
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#373
crossnote said:
Just call me the 'anti-assumption police', where I'm on patrol looking for false assumptions such as this one, lol..."We were all brought up reading the bible."
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So next time I use the term he or him, you are going to say not all of us are of the male gender?
 
piroma

piroma

Member
#374
Apr 12, 2019
97
8
8
#374
crossnote said:
A lawyer?
A new heart as in...

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (Jer 31:33)

Where we once hated or had no interest or love for God or our fellow man, but through the new birth that all changed.

Also...

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1)
in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— (Eph 2:2)
among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. (Eph 2:3)
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, (Eph 2:4)
even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— (Eph 2:5)
Click to expand...
what is new heart and new spirit

and after spirit of God ?


how one knows that he has everything ? or part ? or nothing ?
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#375
Mar 28, 2019
2,026
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#375
Guojing said:
I hope you don't think the placement of the books in the New Testament is based on chronological order, the time in which they were written.
Click to expand...
well honestly i kind of thought so. but how am i supposed to know when James was written lolz
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#376
#376
John146 said:
You see the word “shall”? That means it’s a done deal. No maybe, shall save the sick. Kind of like whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord SHALL be saved. Every time. And to boot, the faith of others forgives sins. This is not Church doctrine, unless you’re in the RCC.

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
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The word “shall: is not in the origional language

Once again, Can you tell me a time, any time, where EVERY-TIME someone prayed people WERE HEALED?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#377
#377
John146 said:
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
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FIRST to the JEW, THEN to the Samaritan, THEN to the ends of the earth

How many times do you have to be told through scripture THIS WAS GODS PLAN
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#378
#378
Guojing said:
As I have said, we are all dispensationalists at heart, it is just the extent of it.

We were all brought up reading the bible and there is a clear blank page that divides the Old Testament and the New Testament. Thus, we grew up being taught that the NT applies to us specifically, but the OT is for us to learn from, but the OT applied to the Jews.

However, when it comes to books in the NT, only those who lean even more towards dispensationalism will accept that certain books are instructions mainly to the Jews, and do not apply to the Gentile Church directly.

I can see that you are not one of them, and that is fine. All of us are still saved because of the Gospel of Grace, which is putting our faith in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
Again,

I have no idea what yuour talking about

And I disagree sharply

ALL scripture is God breathe, and applicable to all people.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#379
Jan 13, 2016
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#379
eternally-gratefull said:
The word “shall: is not in the origional language

Once again, Can you tell me a time, any time, where EVERY-TIME someone prayed people WERE HEALED?
Click to expand...
Yep, according to James, in the future tribulation as a sign to the Jews when elders pray in faith over the sick. Nice comeback on the “original” language thing. I’d love to read that passage in the original language, but we don’t have it.

Can you name a time when the prayers of others in faith forgives the sins of another?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#380
Jan 13, 2016
16,657
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#380
eternally-gratefull said:
FIRST to the JEW, THEN to the Samaritan, THEN to the ends of the earth

How many times do you have to be told through scripture THIS WAS GODS PLAN
Click to expand...
Why ignore the plain speech of Matthew 10? Do not go...why? That particular message is to the Jews only.
 
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