Calvinism And Predestination
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You say that when I have shown you doing that exact thing! Also, John 6:44 isn't taken out of context. Jesus is talking to people who don't believe him and he is explaining their unbelief to them. It's right there in the context of the passage!!
Also, the explanation Jesus gives makes perfect sense when read all together. He tells us no one can believe unless the Father draws him AND that same person will he raised by Christ on the last day. The same person is in view throughout the whole text. Believers are those that are drawn by the Father, and Christ WILL raise them up on the last day. He was sent so that He would redeem these believers and it is the desire of God that He lose none of them. That's reading the whole passage in context. You should try it sometime
Also, the explanation Jesus gives makes perfect sense when read all together. He tells us no one can believe unless the Father draws him AND that same person will he raised by Christ on the last day. The same person is in view throughout the whole text. Believers are those that are drawn by the Father, and Christ WILL raise them up on the last day. He was sent so that He would redeem these believers and it is the desire of God that He lose none of them. That's reading the whole passage in context. You should try it sometime
that is what im arguing for. perhaps you misunderstood me.
i dont deny romans 3.
what im saying is, if you read the wedding parable of Jesus, he says go out to highways and hedges and compel people to come in. right? thats invite everyone. you get the invitation, now you have to choose will you come or not. all are invited.
i dont know how calvinist can make it so complicated?
every time there is a choice, they ask 'why does he choose this, other that?' and then its upto God, the regenerate ones respond yes, unregenrate ones respond no. this is not a problem if it wasnt for that God says He wants all to be saved.
i dont deny romans 3.
what im saying is, if you read the wedding parable of Jesus, he says go out to highways and hedges and compel people to come in. right? thats invite everyone. you get the invitation, now you have to choose will you come or not. all are invited.
i dont know how calvinist can make it so complicated?
every time there is a choice, they ask 'why does he choose this, other that?' and then its upto God, the regenerate ones respond yes, unregenrate ones respond no. this is not a problem if it wasnt for that God says He wants all to be saved.
it does say that. prayers made for all men, God wants all to be saved.
i have heard the all kinds of men or all classes of men argument by james white, but i think its very weak and you have to stretch it unnaturally to make it say that. like titus 2:11.
calvinists make this in all the spots where it says all men, because it doesnt fit L of tulip, so they have to invent some way out of it. i can imagine free will believers also have some verses they have to invent a way out of, like romans 9. i think free willers explanation are really weak when you just read romans 9 as is, they end up agreeing with the objector. but i also believe the same about calvinists reading of titus 2:11 and 1 timothy 2:3-4, too unnatural reading.
there must is a way to harmonize all scripture?
i have heard the all kinds of men or all classes of men argument by james white, but i think its very weak and you have to stretch it unnaturally to make it say that. like titus 2:11.
calvinists make this in all the spots where it says all men, because it doesnt fit L of tulip, so they have to invent some way out of it. i can imagine free will believers also have some verses they have to invent a way out of, like romans 9. i think free willers explanation are really weak when you just read romans 9 as is, they end up agreeing with the objector. but i also believe the same about calvinists reading of titus 2:11 and 1 timothy 2:3-4, too unnatural reading.
there must is a way to harmonize all scripture?
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It isn't unnatural at all . The context determines how we understand what the author is saying. Paul gives us classes of men right there in the paragraph. If he was saying we should pray for every single human being ever then his sentence no longer makes sense. What point would there be to pray for people who already died? Or for people yet to be born? Or for people who will soon die in far off lands? Paul regularly distinguishes between Jews and non Jew in much the same way John does in his writings. The simplest way to read this is as classes of men. It was a common distinction, it perfectly fits the context,and it harmonizes with Paul's writings on the topic elsewhere. Our individualistic interpretation comes from our own American context, not from the scripture itself.
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AMEN.....
God would have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
The grace of God that brings salvation has shined down upon all mankind
God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked
Christ paid for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD
Even though the above are true......we cannot alleviate that God knows the end from the beginning and MANY are called, but FEW chosen <----God is not obligated to call ALL based upon the fact that HE already knows who will and who will not believe.......nor is he obligated to bow to the whims of mere men.....
God would have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
The grace of God that brings salvation has shined down upon all mankind
God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked
Christ paid for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD
Even though the above are true......we cannot alleviate that God knows the end from the beginning and MANY are called, but FEW chosen <----God is not obligated to call ALL based upon the fact that HE already knows who will and who will not believe.......nor is he obligated to bow to the whims of mere men.....
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U
dcontroversal, post: 3910952, member: 183444"
AMEN and Encore!!!
God would have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
The grace of God that brings salvation has shined down upon all mankind
God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked
Christ paid for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD
Even though the above are true......we cannot alleviate that God knows the end from the beginning and MANY are called, but FEW chosen <----God is not obligated to call ALL based upon the fact that HE already knows who will and who will not believe.......nor is he obligated to bow to the whims of mere men..
AMEN and Encore!!!
God would have ALL men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
The grace of God that brings salvation has shined down upon all mankind
God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked
Christ paid for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD
Even though the above are true......we cannot alleviate that God knows the end from the beginning and MANY are called, but FEW chosen <----God is not obligated to call ALL based upon the fact that HE already knows who will and who will not believe.......nor is he obligated to bow to the whims of mere men..
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