Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

[dcontroversal]

One of the problems I see for those that deny a 1st century return of Christ is this:

(Heb 9:28 so also, after Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many, to those who eagerly await him he will appear a second time, not to bear sin but to bring salvation.)

(Heb 10:37For just a little longer and he who is coming will arrive and not delay.)

The above clearly states a return in "just a little longer " and will "not delay ".

Geesh.....it is not a problem when one views TIME the way GOD views time.......come on man......

Peter said the NIGHT is FAR spent and the DAY is at HAND....did we MISS IT.....NO because GOD and GOD's people should VIEW time from the LENS GOD views TIME.................

Why is this concept so hard to grasp

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

One of the problems I see for those that deny a 1st century return of Christ is this:

(Heb 9:28 so also, after Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many, to those who eagerly await him he will appear a second time, not to bear sin but to bring salvation.)
[…]

I had posted a study on this verse (and the word used in particular here) quite awhile back.

The gist of it was:

--of the 684x that the word "G3708 - horaó " is used, TEN of them pertain to Jesus (the "He" of the verse under question)

--ALL TEN of those times (re: Jesus) refer to AFTER His death/resurrection (NONE pertain to His earthly ministry BEFORE His death)

--and I believe the verse should be understood in the following way (separated out, for illustration):


"so also Christ, having been offered once in order to bear the sins of many,

will appear [G3708 - ophthēsetai ] for a second time apart from sin

to those awaiting Him for salvation."



[not our Rapture OR His 2nd Coming to the earth]

 

[azamzimtoti]

Geesh.....it is not a problem when one views TIME the way GOD views time.......come on man......

Peter said the NIGHT is FAR spent and the DAY is at HAND....did we MISS IT.....NO because GOD and GOD's people should VIEW time from the LENS GOD views TIME.................

Why is this concept so hard to grasp

Not a concept I accept as it makes time statements meaningless. The usual claim behind the "concept" is an appeal to Peter:

(2 Pet 3:8 Now, dear friends, do not let this one thing escape your notice, that a single day is like a thousand years with the Lord and a thousand years are like a single day.)

 

[UnderGrace]

I can wait 'til you first answer mine .

I adore a sense of humour!!!

 

[UnderGrace]

what?

My question exactly when I read a futurist post.
Let's hope this thread can reveal both approaches so you can how they compare.

 

[crossnote]

I adore a sense of humour!!!

You did read my question, I posted earlier to you, right?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

LOL, this IS a funny thread!

 

[dcontroversal]

Not a concept I accept as it makes time statements meaningless. The usual claim behind the "concept" is an appeal to Peter:

(2 Pet 3:8 Now, dear friends, do not let this one thing escape your notice, that a single day is like a thousand years with the Lord and a thousand years are like a single day.)

Not hardly ......what I said is factual.......the word is written form GOD's perspective...NOT man's.......and I said the word...not just PETER's word....nice try pal......I sense a lack of honesty on your part

 

[Melach]

My question exactly when I read a futurist post.
Let's hope this thread can reveal both approaches so you can how they compare.

i have compared. i believe preterism is evil if it says no resurrection to come and Jesus already returned ad70.

but if its just that matthew 24 or some of it was fulfilled in ad70 thats fine to me. i can go with that. but some say even sheep and goat judgment already took place thats just crazy.

partial preterist vs full preterist i think is the issue

 

[crossnote]

partial preterist vs full preterist i think is the issue

Yes!, even though both = wrong. lol

 

[UnderGrace]

i have compared. i believe preterism is evil if it says no resurrection to come and Jesus already returned ad70.

but if its just that matthew 24 or some of it was fulfilled in ad70 thats fine to me. i can go with that. but some say even sheep and goat judgment already took place thats just crazy.

partial preterist vs full preterist i think is the issue

Okay

 

[Melach]

Yes!, even though both = wrong. lol

i think what is best is what dcontroversal said. he said double fulfilled

so matthew 24 is about ad70 and ripple also to end of the world

just like isaiah 7:14, sign in that time to a king ahaz, but later ripple to Jesus!

 

[azamzimtoti]

Not hardly ......what I said is factual.......the word is written form GOD's perspective...NOT man's.......and I said the word...not just PETER's word....nice try pal......I sense a lack of honesty on your part

I don't see where anybody would think time statements are not written to man's perspective.

If a prophet said "the time is at hand" and those things did not come to pass he would be condemned as a false prophet.

What you are saying is he would have a "get out of stoning" card by saying "well, er, I was using God's time perspective"

 

[crossnote]

i think what is best is what dcontroversal said. he said double fulfilled

so matthew 24 is about ad70 and ripple also to end of the world

just like isaiah 7:14, sign in that time to a king ahaz, but later ripple to Jesus!

DCon and I have a bit different spin. He's post trib, I'm pre to mid trib. LOL

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't see where anybody would think time statements are not written to man's perspective.

If a prophet said "the time is at hand" and those things did not come to pass he would be condemned as a false prophet.

What you are saying is he would have a "get out of stoning" card by saying "well, er, I was using God's time perspective"

You missed the point......entirely...........and like I said...it is written from God's perspective.....not man's.........and for example....if what you say is true WHY do we need to know....

1000 years is as but a day
1000 years is as but yesterday when it is past
1000 years is as a watch in the night

The LORD is not LATE concerning any and all promises......as some men count LATENESS, but is LONG SUFFERING not willing that any should perish....

ONE would be ignorant and unwise to take the time to fully comprehend HOW GOD views time and that each and every prophecy IS NOT subject unto MAN's TIMING

WAS ISAIAH stoned for predicting Cyrus the KING of PERSIA while the ASSYRIANS were the dominant kingdom and BABYLON or PERSIA had net even risen yet?

WE MUST view the time and timing from God's perspective....almost 35 years of study has taught me that lesson........so....last thing I am saying.....believe as you will

 

[dcontroversal]

DCon and I have a bit different spin. He's post trib, I'm pre to mid trib. LOL

After the Tribulation of those days is clear HAHAHHAHAHAHHA JUST remember....I have enough for 50 people for 5 years so when it hits the fan...haul your rear here HAHAHHAHAH

 

[Melach]

we all know the dispensationalist timeline its very clear with their charts

but can some of you amill or those who believe the temple in 2 thessalonians 2:3-4 isnt a jerusalem temple but church...... can you put a chart of your own? not graphics but just tell us the order of events, what will happen next?

thats one big weakness i think of amil, they got no idea what happens next and if i ask they say its already happened ad70 only thing left is sudden coming and resurrection of all

but also on premil side, its so focused on secular israel who could care less about judaism let alone christianity. the few orthodox people there would be the prime target of antichrist to deceive? is that true? or just the whole world in general

 

[UnderGrace]

Okay so look here..... @dcontroversal @eternally-gratefull @crossnote

Concerning Matthew 24:2-4 (NKJV)

2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.

Notice Jesus just spoke about the Temple having no stone left on top of another

Now we know the Temple is part of the Mosaic Age....the disciples heard what Jesus stated and asked what will be the sign of the end the Mosaic Age (destruction of the Temple).
Surely you cannot see this as a reference to the end of the Christian age since in no way is the Temple tied to the Christian age.

70 AD was the end of the Mosaic age, this is the point of the entire Olivet Discourse....and the historical record can support it very clearly as well.

Okay ....I'll be waiting and burning the midnight oil rereading this thread, I am sure though I can answer each and every question with ease!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Okay so look here..... @dcontroversal @eternally-gratefull @crossnote

Concerning Matthew 24:2-4 (NKJV)

2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.

Notice Jesus just spoke about the Temple having stone left on top of another

Now we know the Temple is part of the Mosaic Age....the disciples heard what Jesus stated and asked what will be the sign of the end the Mosaic Age (destruction of the Temple) be.
Surely you cannot see this as a reference to the end of the Christian age since in no way is the Temple tied to the Christian age

70 AD was the end of the Mosaic age, this is the point of the entire Olivet Discourse....and the historical record can support it very clearly as well.

Okay ....I'll be waiting and burning the midnight oil rereading this thread, I am sure though I can answer each and every question with ease!!

The LAW and the Prophets were until JOHN......not 70 A.D.

AND <----Conjunction

SIGN of the COMING of CHRIST AND the END of the AGE <----AND connects the two........hooking up words, phrases and CLAUSES......

 

[Melach]

Okay so look here..... @dcontroversal @eternally-gratefull @crossnote

Concerning Matthew 24:2-4 (NKJV)

2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.

Notice Jesus just spoke about the Temple having stone left on top of another

Now we know the Temple is part of the Mosaic Age....the disciples heard what Jesus stated and asked what will be the sign of the end the Mosaic Age (destruction of the Temple) be.
Surely you cannot see this as a reference to the end of the Christian age since in no way is the Temple tied to the Christian age

70 AD was the end of the Mosaic age, this is the point of the entire Olivet Discourse....and the historical record can support it very clearly as well.

Okay ....I'll be waiting and burning the midnight oil rereading this thread, I am sure though I can answer each and every question with ease!!

objection your honor

they didnt ask about mosaic or christian times

what it means is end of this era, aion, world.

this aion and the aion to come, as Jesus says.

example is noah to moses. its different rules right? but did it mean end of the aion? of course not. still in the same aion even if its moses, noah, abraham or st.paul.

this present evil aion. another example.