Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Then try to connect the words to the nunaces and put it into context.

You read the concourse between Jesus and Peter yet, concerning love?
Individual words you say, have various nuances.
Peter do you love me? What's the word and what's the context?
Jesus 3rd time. What's the word and the context?
I'm going to bed, everything you need on the subject is here, sorry you don't like it. I have put your pal on ignore:-

Romans 11:20-22 - But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God

2 Peter 2:20-22 - If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

2 Peter 3:17 - Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

Revelation 22:19 - And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

In Rev it even tells us our name can be blotted out of the Lambs book of Life, which means it had to be written in before it can be REMOVED.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,885
4,334
113
I'm going to bed, everything you need on the subject is here, sorry you don't like it. I have put your pal on ignore:-

Romans 11:20-22 - But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God

2 Peter 2:20-22 - If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

2 Peter 3:17 - Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

Revelation 22:19 - And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

In Rev it even tells us our name can be blotted out of the Lambs book of Life, which means it had to be written in before it can be REMOVED.
It's not that I don't like it.

It's just that I do not agree with you.
Fully based on your interpretation of Hebrews and your refusal to answer my questions when looking to understand the Greek and quoting Revelation
.

Sleep well mate.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
a
It's not that I don't like it.

It's just that I do not agree with you.
Fully based on your interpretation of Hebrews and your refusal to answer my questions when looking to understand the Greek and quoting Revelation
.

Sleep well mate.
AMEN...nor do I agree and thank God he put me on ignore....his out of context drivel and refusal to acknowledge the truth was about to fire me up and make me vomit.....
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:No, I was at lunch and had to go back to work. .:ROFL:

Your posts were a trainwreck. Go back. I found time to answer your posts.

Bud did the best he could trying to prove that Christians are all slaves to sin.

Never mind Romans 6:17. Bud knows more than Paul
Oh yes. I also encourage anyone to go look at the exchanges. And yeah, "train wreck" is a good analogy for yours. Whether you call daily sins "practice" or "slavery" you still commit them, and you're not going to stop.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
Oh, DC agrees with Bud's "Christians are slaves to sin" argument? Is that why he put a thumbs up? I was waiting to see who would agree with that abomination of an argument.

Bud tried to prove that if you are not sinless, you are a slave to sin. That is in direct contradiction to 1 John 1:8 on one hand and Romans 6:17 on the other

Shows how pernicious and unbiblical a doctrine can be when it picks some scriptures and ignores others.
Poor Mac. Sins and sins and claims he's no slave. Claims he's not "practicing" sin.

Hopeless hypocrite.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
Oh yes. I also encourage anyone to go look at the exchanges. And yeah, "train wreck" is a good analogy for yours. Whether you call daily sins "practice" or "slavery" you still commit them, and you're not going to stop.
It is amazing how many qualify and quantify sin into nice neat little boxes and how many people actually believe they are without sin or never sin and or just mess up once in a while........

NO one is sinless until they get a glorified body...........even the greatest men of faith confessed sin...God said that if it were POSSIBLE for a man to be delivered by his own righteousness<---DANIEL was ONE of three listed and NOT ONE SIN is recorded in the bible concerning Daniel and yet he was found CONFESSING HIS SINS.....ONE of only THREE MEN in the world that could have been delivered by their OWN righteousness if it were possible confessing sins.....tells me all I need to know about these sinless perfectionists
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
Magenta think I claim to be sinless. :ROFL:
Odd. You said in post #544 on the "Faith/Works - How much faith? How much works?" thread that: "They do not believe it is possible to be free from sin."

Is that not you claiming you don't sin - that you are "free" from it?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
You think too much....and eternal security is a reality unless you serve a weak inept lying god that does not keep his word and or promises......
Exactly. If eternal life isn't eternal, God made a serious mistake by calling it eternal life when He should have called it temporary life, or probation instead of salvation, or a trial period instead of what it is - eternal security.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
Exactly. If eternal life isn't eternal, God made a serious mistake by calling it eternal life when He should have called it temporary life, or probation instead of salvation, or a trial period instead of what it is - eternal security.
AMEN......He that believes on the SON is having temporal life based upon religious hoop jumping......
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Poor Mac. Sins and sins and claims he's no slave. Claims he's not "practicing" sin.

Hopeless hypocrite.
Budman do you think this is related to a belief in the doctrine of the "perseverance of the saints"

It seems that their assurance of salvation is bound up in the fact that they preserver?

But I would say we should not use ourselves and our fruit as a measure of salvation but rather the promises of God?

I worry because I have dialogued with a few people who have come under the heavy weight of this doctrine. :(
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
Budman do you think this is related to a belief in the doctrine of the "perseverance of the saints"

It seems that their assurance of salvation is bound up in the fact that they preserver?

But I would say we should not use ourselves and our fruit as a measure of salvation but rather the promises of God?

I worry because I have dialogued with a few people who have come under the heavy weight of this doctrine. :(
No matter what they say or believe.....the bible is clear...WE are KEPT by the POWER of GOD through FAITH <---the FAITH that JESUS begins, finishes and completes....and Like I have stated...IF we are FAITHLESS HE ABIDES FAITHFUL because he CANNOT deny HIMSELF.....

THERE are SOOOOOOO many scriptural truths that MUST be flat DENIED to peddle a losable or self maintained salvation.....and the BIBLE does NOT contradict itself.....
 

corazondeldei

Active member
Apr 17, 2019
151
33
28
56
AGAIN PAL...the context is having their AUTHORITY removed collectively as a church....IT has nothing to do with salvation so your point is MOOT
I did answer....he cannot figure out that what JESUS said to the 7 churches ha nothing to do with individual salvation, but rather losing their authority as a church.....you cannot reason with people that will ignore context.......just like the other guy using Hebrews out of context to peddle a losable salvation....
NIV1984 Revelation 2:19-29
I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first. Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): Only hold on to what you have until I come. To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— ‘He will rule them with an iron scepter; he will dash them to pieces like pottery’— just as I have received authority from my Father. I will also give him the morning star. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Is Jesus our Lord asking these churches to repent? Weren't they saved and always saved like you? It's interesting to notice that although you say that "saved is saved" yet here is Jesus telling them to repent for the things He has against them (i'm refering to the 7 churches as i have stated from the start) and warning them. Now I wonder what will those who claim to be saved and always saved do when Jesus says to them that He has not found their deeds complete in the sight of God and that they need to repent and obey, will they listen and adhere to His appeal to them or will they reject His appeal and insist that they have no more need for repentance because their sins in the past, present and future have already been forgiven and that they are always saved regardless of any appeal from the Lord they claim to have faith in. Such a dangerous stance indeed.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
NIV1984 Revelation 2:19-29
I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first. Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): Only hold on to what you have until I come. To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— ‘He will rule them with an iron scepter; he will dash them to pieces like pottery’— just as I have received authority from my Father. I will also give him the morning star. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Is Jesus our Lord asking these churches to repent? Weren't they saved and always saved like you? It's interesting to notice that although you say that "saved is saved" yet here is Jesus telling them to repent for the things He has against them (i'm refering to the 7 churches as i have stated from the start) and warning them. Now I wonder what will those who claim to be saved and always saved do when Jesus says to them that He has not found their deeds complete in the sight of God and that they need to repent and obey, will they listen and adhere to His appeal to them or will they reject His appeal and insist that they have no more need for repentance because their sins in the past, present and future have already been forgiven and that they are always saved regardless of any appeal from the Lord they claim to have faith in. Such a dangerous stance indeed.
Already answered.....having the candlestick stirred out of position is indicative of LOSING the authority of being a church.....GET over it....it is not about losing salvation regardless of how many different angles you approach it from.....
 

corazondeldei

Active member
Apr 17, 2019
151
33
28
56
NIV1984 Matthew 12:37
For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

NIV1984 1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

NIV1984 Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
Join the crowd sis....he was over in another thread accusing @Budman of being an accuser of the brethern....

An accuser accusing the accuser......two Greek words = Hypocrite........
:ROFL: What do you think we're talking about.

Bud is over there trying to inspect my fruit and trying to argue that EVERYONE is a slave to sin. :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
At the end of the day we are called to be like Jesus.
We are called to discipleship.
What saves us?
Works or faith?
Faith saves, works follow.
I am in agreement on all of that. Who is saying anything that is contrary to that?

That is a red herring that people on these boards use all the time.